[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by oln08

I'm not into american cars either, but I would want to own a NA V8 someday.
If one already have 3 BMWs in the garage, then this one would make sense.
I just hope that Lexus dealers will not jack the price out of my price range.

local Lexus dealer has $3k markup on IS350i F sport, probably one can get $1k off of markup.

My guess IS500 (touted as rare V8 NA) will start with $10k markup over MSRP.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by TruthOne

You'll still have plenty of chances to get this car if you're worried about it being the last. There's the GSF too with the same engine you can pick up used for less than what this will be new and it will handle better than even the M340 despite being enormous. This Lexus V8 Isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

False!!.

Also the motor is being phased out, this is the last opportunity to get one in a new car at a reasonable price. Lexus is going turbo like everyone else. Their new cars are now coming with run-flats which is a new strategy for them. Lexus is a follower of trends, they're the laggards but they always follow everybody else in the end.

[wtwo3]

Wow somehow I missed this thread and it blew up to 5 pages within a matter of days.

I'll give my two cents. The ISS500 and m340i are fundamentally VERY different cars despite being in the same class, so you really have to ask yourself what your priorities are. The thing that really attracts me about the IS500 is obviously the engine. And no, it's not ONLY the sound as some here proclaim. Yes the sound is a major factor, but the fact that it's naturally aspirated gives it different characteristics that appeal to me more than any turbocharged engine ever can. The linear power delivery as well as quick throttle response makes for a VERY satisfying drive.

Aside from that awesome powerplant, I find the car to be breathtakingly beautiful and easily the best looking in the class.

But beyond that, it goes downhill fast. The interior is VERY dated and the tech is severely lacking. Such a gorgeous car deserves an equally gorgeous interior - but instead we get a some weird mishmash of 80's retro angular dash and weird ergonomics along with crappy Lexus infotainment. I had seen all the reviews about Lexus' infotainment and I originally thought they were being unreasonably harsh... until I used it for myself. It's really that bad.

Ultimately for me, if I was deciding between the two - as a daily driver I'd pick the m340i. It's just overall the better car. Better interior, better tech, and of course better performance doesn't hurt either. But if this was a weekend car (this would be a weird selection for a weekend car TBH..) I feel the IS500 will have way more character and satisfying of a drive.

So in short... this is what you do: Get the m340i as your daily. And get an LC500 as your weekend.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

So in short... this is what you do: Get the m340i as your daily. And get an LC500 as your weekend.

Yeah LC500 coupe for weekend says cool for its nostalgic V8 NA.

For weekday DD, the M340i likely is more appealing to IS500.

As far as V8 NA linear delivery, the M340i B58 I6 twin scroll turbo + mild hybrid is quite linear too, and has significant better mpg over V8 NA.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

As far as V8 NA linear delivery, the M340i B58 I6 twin scroll turbo + mild hybrid is quite linear too, and has significant better mpg over V8 NA.

Agreed, the b58 with the twin scroll turbo does REALLY well to mask some of the common delivery issues with turbo motors. But there's still that LITTLE bit where a NA is still a noticeable difference.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Yeah LC500 coupe for weekend says cool for its nostalgic V8 NA.

For weekday DD, the M340i likely is more appealing to IS500.

As far as V8 NA linear delivery, the M340i B58 I6 twin scroll turbo + mild hybrid is quite linear too, and has significant better mpg over V8 NA.

The B58 does have a lot of pull, but I have found there are certain sweet spots where the power is best utilized. For example, my newest guilty pleasure is getting the car up to 50 MPH, putting it in manual, Sport+ with DSC set to Dynamic, down shifting to 3rd gear, and then flooring it. The amount of shove you get when you do this is mind boggling; you're literally going 100 MPH in a matter of seconds. B58 + 3rd gear on the ZF 8-speed is literally the M340i's happy place.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NA V8 from Lexus is unable to match this sort of visceral power... but the V8 still sounds so much better.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Agreed, the b58 with the twin scroll turbo does REALLY well to mask some of the common delivery issues with turbo motors. But there's still that LITTLE bit where a NA is still a noticeable difference.

Yeah for that little bit extra with V8 NA, the extra weight makes IS500 handle not as good as M340i, e.g. C&D says IS500 0.89g vs M340i 0.96g.

I think I would pick better handling over little bit better power delivery, esp. when C&D numbers show IS500 lags behind M340i in most categories.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I wouldn't be surprised if the NA V8 from Lexus is unable to match this sort of visceral power...

And C&D numbers agree with u:
M340i
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.4 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.9 sec

IS500
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.0 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Yeah for that little bit extra with V8 NA, the extra weight makes IS500 handle not as good as M340i, e.g. C&D says IS500 0.89g vs M340i 0.96g.

I think I would pick better handling over little bit better power delivery, esp. when C&D numbers show IS500 lags behind M340i in most categories.

Yeah I mean I think we need to decouple performance from experience. Performance alone does not equal experience (again, reference Tesla).

I'm not saying the IS500 can perform like the m340i... the m340i will run circles around it. What I'm suggesting is the experience of the IS500 will be a bit more visceral than the m340i. It's one of the reasons why if you ever see reviews of the LC500 it's like the reviewers are having orgasms as opposed to other, faster cars where it's a much more subdued, "wow this performs great".

Unless you're competing, performance numbers with relatively small variances only look good on a spreadsheet and what truly matters out on in the real world is the experience and how it makes you feel. It's not like I rip through a corner and accelerate out of it thinking, "wow that 0.97g is so much more exciting than the 0.93g of the other car". Or, "wow the 0.3 seconds quicker 50-70 mph time is so amazing compared to the 3.15 seconds I experienced last week!".

I still pick the m340i because it's the overall better car... but the IS500 does make me think.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by madpistol

B58 + 3rd gear on the ZF 8-speed is literally the M340i's happy place.

Yeah B46 is similar too.

In general ZF 8AT 2nd/3rd(and 4th too?) gears@1.5k-5krpm stay on flat power band of B46(and same on N26).

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm not saying the IS500 can perform like the m340i... the m340i will run circles around it. What I'm suggesting is the experience of the IS500 will be a bit more visceral than the m340i. It's one of the reasons why if you ever see reviews of the LC500 it's like the reviewers are having orgasms as opposed to other, faster cars where it's a much more subdued, "wow this performs great".

I guess the visceral feel of IS500 is the V8 NA's surging power band and low end grunt to keep up with flat power band + turbo(e.g. B46/B58).

It is similar to my old E39 M54 NA 5MT 225HP/250lb-ft. It feels fast because of surging power band with high rev, @2nd gear it hits 60mph at around 6kpm+(one shift! ). But its 0-60 is still 6.6 seconds, vs. 5.6 seconds in my F30 328i, vs. 5.4 seconds in current G20 330i(all 3 around 3400-3500lb).

So M54 feels fast with tons of visceral feel, but N26/B46 is fast with no fuss.

[tonymac1]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yeah I mean I think we need to decouple performance from experience. Performance alone does not equal experience (again, reference Tesla).

I'm not saying the IS500 can perform like the m340i... the m340i will run circles around it. What I'm suggesting is the experience of the IS500 will be a bit more visceral than the m340i. It's one of the reasons why if you ever see reviews of the LC500 it's like the reviewers are having orgasms as opposed to other, faster cars where it's a much more subdued, "wow this performs great".

Unless you're competing, performance numbers with relatively small variances only look good on a spreadsheet and what truly matters out on in the real world is the experience and how it makes you feel. It's not like I rip through a corner and accelerate out of it thinking, "wow that 0.97g is so much more exciting than the 0.93g of the other car". Or, "wow the 0.3 seconds quicker 50-70 mph time is so amazing compared to the 3.15 seconds I experienced last week!".

I still pick the m340i because it's the overall better car... but the IS500 does make me think.

This. I could really care less about a 0.5s faster 0-60 or lateral G . This is replacing my current e90 m3 btw, I enjoy the v8, and is500 i would imagine it to be a bit faster than the e90. M340 will for sure be a lot faster and nicer inside but there's nothing else on the market that's about the same size and has a NA v8, and can haul 4-5 people.
Overall to me it's a tough decision and it's more than just comparing performance numbers here

[EXE46]

This is a public forum and you created a thread asking for other peoples opinion and as result everybody threw in their two cents. You may not agree or like them but what else was the purpose of the thread. You can't expect everybody here to share your perspectives. People have various reasons and criteria for buying a car which is their perrogative. Some do value 0-60 times above all else, some it's a combo of speed and tech and or performance. While for some styling reigns supreme. Ask the same question on CL and they'll tell you the M340 is pure thrash that will bankrupt you as soon as the initial warranty ends. Some may even tell you it's boring to look at and that there's one on every corner of their neighborhood.


Hence why this thread was pointless especially since we already had a thread where we discussed the car. You'd never find me looking for solidarity in choosing a car for me. But i understand everyone is different. I don't even get my spouse's approval, we don't have that sorta relationship period. If you feel that strongly in your convictions then get the IS500, it should be a simple decision . As for fitting 5 adults the 3IS is not that versatile. It's one of the smallest cars in the class for interior space. You can fit 4 adults and a small child at most and those adults need to be on the smaller side. In the end, nobody here can decide what's best for you. After driving it you will know if it's the car for you.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by tonymac1

This. I could really care less about a 0.5s faster 0-60 or lateral G

Your post#1 appears to imply M340i's better tech, faster acceleration, and better handling(albeit no V8 NA) matter to u.

If you really care less about those, and your heart and mind are set on V8 NA, then anything beyond post#1 is meaningless to u, right?

Originally Posted by tonymac1

im currently debating between the m340 and IS500, Lexus is struggling with production now and it could be months till the cars arrive in the states. However, very interested in getting the 5L V8, could be the very last hooray of a naturally aspirated V8 in a sedan form

On the other hand M340 has better tech, faster acceleration, and better handling.

Anyone here ever considered the upcoming IS500? thoughts?

[giorgoXXI]

I used to own an IS-F, and that 5.0L V8 is amazing. The IS-F, with all its flaws, was much more engaging to drive than the M340i. The IS-F though was a purpose built fast sedan, my only concern with the IS500 is whether Lexus has simply put a big V8 in a standard IS with nothing else tweaked, in which case I am not sure it will be as engaging.

As it was mentioned above, if its a daily driver, go for the M340i, if its a car purely to have fun, go for the V8!

[tonymac1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Your post#1 appears to imply M340i's better tech, faster acceleration, and better handling matter to u.

If you really care less about those, then anything beyond post#1 is meaningless to u, right?

No, I was stating the facts. And yes numbers dont mean that much too me, I'm curious to see what people think here since there are a lot of enthusiasts here other than fanboys. And I believe the discussions have been relatively constructive. I did receive a lot of useful information here, and that'll help with the decision making.
I've never had experience with this Lexus V8, but I've had experiences with the B58(from my previous x3m40),and people provided inputs.

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by tonymac1

This. I could really care less about a 0.5s faster 0-60 or lateral G . This is replacing my current e90 m3 btw, I enjoy the v8, and is500 i would imagine it to be a bit faster than the e90. M340 will for sure be a lot faster and nicer inside but there's nothing else on the market that's about the same size and has a NA v8, and can haul 4-5 people.
Overall to me it's a tough decision and it's more than just comparing performance numbers here

I hope you realize the backseats are not spacious at all in the IS. It's the same design as the is200t I had previously.. The g20 has more room in the back and can seat people more comfortably than the IS, and thats facts.

The only reason I could see anyone getting this car is for the NA v8, nothing more. My opinion is not biased either, I've owned the 3IS and now a G20.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by giorgoXXI

I used to own an IS-F, and that 5.0L V8 is amazing. The IS-F, with all its flaws, was much more engaging to drive than the M340i. The IS-F though was a purpose built fast sedan, my only concern with the IS500 is whether Lexus has simply put a big V8 in a standard IS with nothing else tweaked, in which case I am not sure it will be as engaging.

As it was mentioned above, if its a daily driver, go for the M340i, if its a car purely to have fun, go for the V8!

ISF was a work in progress. The car debuted with an open diff and they didn't add LSD until the 3rd MY. At the time S65 was far more engaging with a true high revving V8. Anyhow, Toyota took noticed and reverse engineered what they discovered from the E90 M3. They had the ISF testing side by side with the E90M3 to see what the differences were. Consequently, the 2011 ISF arrived with updated suspension to match the M3, Toyota even sourced the dampers from the same supplier as the BMW.

This ended up working in their favor because the 2011 ISF lapped VIR in about the same time as the M3. This IS500 as you rightly claimed is not of the same caliber suspension and brake wise. The brakes on the IS500 is from the now extinct GS350 F sport sedan. While the suspension is almost the same as that which is found on the current IS350 F Sport. All these compromises were made to keep this car affordable. Of course the suspension can be fixed via the aftermarket for those who chose that route.

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by EXE46

False!!.

Also the motor is being phased out, this is the last opportunity to get one in a new car at a reasonable price. Lexus is going turbo like everyone else. Their new cars are now coming with run-flats which is a new strategy for them. Lexus is a follower of trends, they're the laggards but they always follow everybody else in the end.

Had no idea they running run flats too now…

[tonymac1]

Originally Posted by premier3is

I hope you realize the backseats are not spacious at all in the IS. It's the same design as the is200t I had previously.. The g20 has more room in the back and can seat people more comfortably than the IS, and thats facts.

The only reason I could see anyone getting this car is for the NA v8, nothing more. My opinion is not biased either, I've owned the 3IS and now a G20.

Thank you! Multiple people have mentioned the rear space being smaller than g20 and I'm aware of that. I only use the rear seats for our toddler occasionally.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by premier3is

Had no idea they running run flats too now…

LC500 and LS500 were the first to debut RF, also believe same applies to the UX so basically all their latest generations since 2018. The 2022 NX will also come with RF only so this seems to be the path forward for them. NX also now has new infotainment with touchscreen and wireless AP/AA. Old 2.0T is now updated to a 2.5L turbo which is also debuting on the 2022 NX so this should find its way into the next gen IS when that car debuts.

In other news, the upcoming Tundra loses the V8 for new 3.5l turbo, same thing happening in the new gen Landcruiser, no more V8. So yes Toyota is following in the same footsteps as the Germans, they've just been very slow as usual.

[TruthOne]

Originally Posted by EXE46

False!!.

Also the motor is being phased out, this is the last opportunity to get one in a new car at a reasonable price. Lexus is going turbo like everyone else. Their new cars are now coming with run-flats which is a new strategy for them. Lexus is a follower of trends, they're the laggards but they always follow everybody else in the end.

What's false? The handling part? I remember the GSF being praised heavily for the handling. It's always been one of the positives other than the engine when it was compared to the M and AMG cars since it's considerably slower. You're telling me the M340 is a better handling car than an F? Seems like people here always complain about the M340i steering and lack of feel. that's not the case with F cars.

It's being phased out but you should still be able to pick up an IS F, RC F , GSF and now IS500 on the used market for years to come.