[elambo]

A popular auto reviewer got a Model 3 which had finish issues and that's been repeated ad nauseum. I have many friends with Teslas and they all say theirs are solidly built. This is not to say that there aren't issues, but be careful what you read on the internet when making categorical statements -- 99% is repeated data without cited sources or first-hand confirmation. And be especially careful of data coming from a competitor's fan forum.

I'll admit that a Model 3 Performance was nearly my purchase when I got the BMW. In the end I felt that I'd be paying for a smart computer and not so much for the hardware. I understand that it's not easy manufacturing those components, but it still feels like the EV industry is overcharging to help recoup their (rather massive) R&D costs.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by elambo

A popular auto reviewer got a Model 3 which had finish issues and that's been repeated ad nauseum. I have many friends with Teslas and they all say theirs are solidly built. This is not to say that there aren't issues, but be careful what you read on the internet when making categorical statements -- 99% is repeated data without cited sources or first-hand confirmation. And be especially careful of data coming from a competitor's fan forum.

I'll admit that a Model 3 Performance was nearly my purchase when I got the BMW. In the end I felt that I'd be paying for a smart computer and not so much for the hardware. I understand that it's not easy manufacturing those components, but it still feels like the EV industry is overcharging to help recoup their (rather massive) R&D costs.

I tend to agree with your assessment. E.g. the price gap of Model 3 SR to M3P is huge given the extra components/hardware(not much).

The same is not true going from, say, G20 330i to G80 M3, the extra chassis reinforcement of M3 alone has added values on top of 330i base.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by dr_frankfurter

I remember seeing a manual, electric C7 Vette at the LA Auto Show a few years back. Jeep had a concept of a manual electric Rubicon as well. It's nice to dream

I did see some articles about 7-speed(!!!!) manual electric C7, but it does not seem to be production-bound though.

[Maxdog]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

True story. Not a troll. I was on the road this lovely afternoon. An older woman driving a Tesla model 3 pulls up next to my 2022 m340X that I leased last week from Bill Jacobs BMW. At the red light she facially indicates let's race. I nod back and accept the challenge.

The light turns green and I am absolutely, positively, 100% smoked - smoked bad by the Tesla after 15-20 feet. The Tesla destroyed my m340 off the line, and the Tesla was much, much further ahead when I hit 100MPH and hit the brakes. I had no chance of getting close to the Tesla. When I hit 100MPH the Tesla was a good 30, 40 feet ahead of me. It was not even close. It was as if the Tesla was running on pure jet fuel.

At the next light she yells out of her window at me and says "And the government gave me $7500 for buying this fast golf cart."

I come to learn that the Tesla she was driving was a Model 3 performance model. Tesla website says it is 3.1 in the 0-60 and from what I have read this evening, more like 2.9 in real world driving.

That Tesla Model 3 performance is a 53K car. More than 10 K less than my loaded 2022 m340 with x drive. I found out that the $7500 credit for Tesla cars is no longer available, but as long as the monetary thresholds are not changed, the new BMW all electric cars will be eligible.

I never drove a Tesla. It probably is not as engaging as an internal combustion engine and is way too quiet. but it is one super fast car. I really hope the new BMW electric cars will be that fast.

The ones that say dual motor on the back are the quickest

[Scottycs]

With a RED LINE under them. Regular Dual Motor is quick, but not nearly as quick as the performance.

Originally Posted by Maxdog

The ones that say dual motor on the back are the quickest

I also have a 2021 Tesla Model Y Performance and its faster than my 21 M340i with JB4, especially from a low speed roll.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Scottycs

I also have a 2021 Tesla Model Y Performance and its faster than my 21 M340i with JB4, especially from a low speed roll.

Wow u can do side-by-side comparison of Y performance and M340i then. How is your experience so far? E.g. Does Y handle better than M340i at corners/cloverleafs? How is Y suspension compared to M-sport suspension?

It is true Y is compact SUV, but a few Y owners said it drives similar to Model 3 and better built than Model 3.

[Scottycs]

I could try, but I am no youtuber.... lol

The Y handles nothing like the M340i, but it came with proper wheels and tires.....not the 225 my M340i came with

The Y is basically a Model 3 that is slightly elevated with a higher roofline, which makes it feel more spacious.

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Wow u can do side-by-side comparison of Y performance and M340i then. How is your experience so far? E.g. Does Y handle better than M340i at corners/cloverleafs? How is Y suspension compared to M-sport suspension?

It is true Y is compact SUV, but a few Y owners said it drives similar to Model 3 and better built than Model 3.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by elambo

A popular auto reviewer got a Model 3 which had finish issues and that's been repeated ad nauseum. I have many friends with Teslas and they all say theirs are solidly built. This is not to say that there aren't issues, but be careful what you read on the internet when making categorical statements -- 99% is repeated data without cited sources or first-hand confirmation. And be especially careful of data coming from a competitor's fan forum.

I'll admit that a Model 3 Performance was nearly my purchase when I got the BMW. In the end I felt that I'd be paying for a smart computer and not so much for the hardware. I understand that it's not easy manufacturing those components, but it still feels like the EV industry is overcharging to help recoup their (rather massive) R&D costs.

Coincidentally, this popped up in my feed just today

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/d...ty-171486.html

I also have personal 1st hand experience when I rented a brand new model 3. The phone charger assembly literally broke (fell into the hole) as I was trying to position my phone to get it to charge. It was built as though some amateur taped everything together.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Scottycs

I could try, but I am no youtuber.... lol

The Y handles nothing like the M340i, but it came with proper wheels and tires.....not the 225 my M340i came with

The Y is basically a Model 3 that is slightly elevated with a higher roofline, which makes it feel more spacious.

Do u let your Y diving into a cloverleaf/connector at speed? I tried that on Model 3 but regenerative brake kicked in once foot was off the pedal.

On my 328i/330i I can roll in the curve at 40-45mph(speed sign 25mph) and rotate out at same speed, but it is hard to do in Model 3.

I seldom see Tesla pushing at curves, rather they wait till the straight and then punch it.

[zipstic]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

True story. Not a troll. I was on the road this lovely afternoon...

Says the guy with 1 post...

[elambo]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Coincidentally, this popped up in my feed just today

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/d...ty-171486.html

I also have personal 1st hand experience when I rented a brand new model 3. The phone charger assembly literally broke (fell into the hole) as I was trying to position my phone to get it to charge. It was built as though some amateur taped everything together.

Rentals in general have more issues than off-the-lot new purchases due to abuse. No doubt there are issues with new cars, too, but I think they're amplified enormously. News feeds still operate with the "if it bleeds it leads" credo and a company producing solid cars isn't an interesting headline.

When i was considering the brand I did a deep dive, and what I discovered was that there's a lot of anti-Tesla noise, from anti-EV consumers and *especially* manufacturers, making a true, real-world assessment of their build quality tough to establish. You have to look at all the numbers. After doing that homework, the chances of receiving a flawed Tesla were far less than what that noise suggested. It's popular to trash the brand, especially in some circles, and for several reasons. I get it, and they deserve some of that.

As far as speed against petrol machines, it's been a known phenomenon for many years. I don't race in populated areas, but I'd know what I was up against if I tried.

[Germanauto]

One of my friends has a Model 3 Performance. He's about ready to get rid of it. Fast sure, but the acceleration lacks a sense of occasion and drama. He doesn't care for the handling/steering either. Build quality, specifically weather stripping, is a constant issue but that's the least of his worries. Lastly, Model 3s seem to literally be as common as Toyota Camrys.

So yeah great car objectively, I'm not gonna pretend it doesn't have advantages over ICE. But I think hardcore driving enthusiasts will always opt for the option to flip paddles, hear a beautiful engine/exhaust, and handle a lighter car. All these components give ICE more feedback to the driver and require more skill than just pressing an accelerator and braking.

Personally I would never want to drive the same car everybody else is driving. My parents live in a ritzy part of a tech city suburb and a ton of their neighbors have Teslas. These are some brilliant people, but they are also gigantic nerds. Like Steve Urkel level nerds. I know I'm being a superficial douche, I'd rather not drive the same car as them.

[Benjamin_Nicholas]

A tesla, even a base model, is always going to smoke an M340i.

Sure, they don't do as well in turns, but for 0-60, very few other vehicles can come close to their takeoff.

[TruthOne]

Originally Posted by Benjamin_Nicholas

A tesla, even a base model, is always going to smoke an M340i.

Sure, they don't do as well in turns, but for 0-60, very few other vehicles can come close to their takeoff.

It's so weird getting your ass handed to you in silence lol

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Benjamin_Nicholas

A tesla, even a base model, is always going to smoke an M340i.

Sure, they don't do as well in turns, but for 0-60, very few other vehicles can come close to their takeoff.

Model 3 standard range plus 0-60 is 5.3 seconds, so M340i(and even 330i) should do ok against it.

Also G20 can usually get out of a turn/curve a few car lengths ahead of Model 3.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by elambo

Rentals in general have more issues than off-the-lot new purchases due to abuse. No doubt there are issues with new cars, too, but I think they're amplified enormously. News feeds still operate with the "if it bleeds it leads" credo and a company producing solid cars isn't an interesting headline.

When i was considering the brand I did a deep dive, and what I discovered was that there's a lot of anti-Tesla noise, from anti-EV consumers and *especially* manufacturers, making a true, real-world assessment of their build quality tough to establish. You have to look at all the numbers. After doing that homework, the chances of receiving a flawed Tesla were far less than what that noise suggested. It's popular to trash the brand, especially in some circles, and for several reasons. I get it, and they deserve some of that.

As far as speed against petrol machines, it's been a known phenomenon for many years. I don't race in populated areas, but I'd know what I was up against if I tried.

Yeah I mean it's totally anecdotal I get it. Granted, that rental was literally brand new. I was the first renter that car had.

I actually rented it with a totally open mind - I was legitimately considering a model 3 performance as my next car. I came away from that experience very disappointed, and not even because of build quality issues. It was an extremely soulless driving experience. Sure it was insanely fast, but I felt 0 emotion driving it. It truly felt like I was simply operating a tablet computer with some wheels attached to it. At the time I was shocked that such brutal acceleration could feel so impressive AND underwhelming/boring at the same time.

[RPM1123]

The fast Teslas are such sleepers. 90% of Teslas on the road where I am are base/mid-range models, which are definitely speedy but not stupid fast. It's the other 10% with the performance models that will blow your socks off.

I was behind a Model S P100D at a red light the other day, the guy absolutely took off and I had to go 50-60% throttle to match his speed. I doubt he was even paying attention to me (or trying to outpace me for that matter), if he had floored it he would have disappeared. You can't compete with that type of torque unless you're in a Turbo S.

[premier3is]

Learned your lesson early to not fuck with a Tesla eh? Lol

Had a guy once trying to race me in a model 3, knew it was a performance model and I only drive a 330i and I knew he just wanted to boost his ego and win, I didn't even pursue it. He tried by switching into my lane infront of me and hitting his hazards to get my attention. Just ignored it lol.

Atleast I got an engine

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by RPM1123

The fast Teslas are such sleepers. 90% of Teslas on the road where I am are base/mid-range models, which are definitely speedy but not stupid fast. It's the other 10% with the performance models that will blow your socks off.

I was behind a Model S P100D at a red light the other day, the guy absolutely took off and I had to go 50-60% throttle to match his speed. I doubt he was even paying attention to me (or trying to outpace me for that matter), if he had floored it he would have disappeared. You can't compete with that type of torque unless you're in a Turbo S.

Can't even compete in a Turbo S against a Model S P100D , unless you want to get spanked lol.

[TruthOne]

Originally Posted by RPM1123

The fast Teslas are such sleepers. 90% of Teslas on the road where I am are base/mid-range models, which are definitely speedy but not stupid fast. It's the other 10% with the performance models that will blow your socks off.

I was behind a Model S P100D at a red light the other day, the guy absolutely took off and I had to go 50-60% throttle to match his speed. I doubt he was even paying attention to me (or trying to outpace me for that matter), if he had floored it he would have disappeared. You can't compete with that type of torque unless you're in a Turbo S.

Turbo S will also lose you need a Taycan to keep up. EV vs EV otherwise in a line it's over. Now that there's a Plaid nothing can win

[Rux]

I mean there is always something faster. Don't compare performance and price then be dumbfounded that a lower priced car "spanked" your m340. If that were a performance measure and what you cared about, there are plenty of Honda civics to be had sub 20k which will make even the most feared street models cry for their mama.

"it's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast".

[JTYAMSHAYIN]

Originally Posted by Rux

I mean there is always something faster. Don't compare performance and price then be dumbfounded that a lower priced car "spanked" your m340. If that were a performance measure and what you cared about, there are plenty of Honda civics to be had sub 20k which will make even the most feared street models cry for their mama.

"it's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast".

Don't worry about your BMW losing to a Tesla, the Model S Plaid is smoking hyper cars. Pull up a La Ferrari or a Chiron and they are still losing from a red light against a Tesla. But which would most of us rather have?

Living in California, everyone and their momma has a Tesla. It's fast but I still have no desire to own one personally. I would love to be in a Plaid and experience the launch a few times but would rather own a BMW at the moment and would definitely rather own a Ferrari, but I'm too poor.