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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions 2020 m340 - Fully Loaded - Lease Transfer / Termination Options?

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      11-17-2020, 12:42 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by mmp151 View Post
Hi Folks. Just like many folks cause of the global pandemic we're not using our 2020 m340 (Black on Black) that we custom ordered. We're tied into a 45,000 / 3 year lease which ends in January 2023, and the car barely has 5,000 miles on it. So I'm looking at what my options are, if someone takes over the lease they would practically get over 20k miles per year (since there's almost two years remaining with 40k+ miles left on the lease). I tried to contact BMW hoping they would help me terminate my lease early without any fees / payouts because of the pandemic but they weren't very helpful at all. So wondering how folks have done this before? What sites do you recommend for these transfers? Any is the market flooded with others like me; will it take forever to get this car off my hands? Appreciate the help and insight from others in similar situations or who have done this in the past.
Go on Swapalease and see what other 340's are going for on a monthly basis with similar mileage. Compare that to your monthly and then you will know if you need to offer an incentive. You will need to be in the lower 10-20% of monthly payments after incentive to offload it unless there is a highly desirable option like MPE, etc. Even then you would have to wait for the right buyer that wants that specifically. I move my cars pretty regularly on there and the process is straightforward.
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      11-17-2020, 12:50 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Because a 60K car financed with 20K down would give you around a $500-600 monthly payment. After the car is paid off, assuming moderate mileage and no accidents on a 3 year finance you have 30-40K in your pocket.

If I lease that same car with no money down I'm out of the 20K with nothing to show for it, not even a car I could sell. And guess what? If I use that 30K to buy another 60K car I'm only paying on 30K of a loan, assuming no money down.

That's why you finance. When you finance your able to play with your money. When you lease, you have no leverage.
You like to purchase and that is fine. You definitely don't understand finance very well though. For a $60K car you put $20K down, there is opportunity cost for that $20K not being in your brokerage account. You are also taking on full risk for the value of that car at the 3 year mark either high or low. Finally you are also paying sales tax on the full $60K purchase price. You are assuming you cannot sell a leased vehicle or that there is no transfer available, both of which are incorrect.

Now let's take my M5 lease as an example. My 2019 had a sticker of $125K. I received a $21K discount off list for a capitalized cost of $104K. My payment was ~$1275/mo including sales tax with only drive offs which were about $2400. I transferred my M5 to another person with zero out of pocket after 9 months of ownership because of WFH. My total out of pocket was $11,475.

If you purchased the vehicle the math would look like this;

$104K purchase price
$9.1K sales tax
$113.1K OTD
-$20K down payment
$93.1K financed
$1414/mo assuming 3% interest rate and 72 month financing

Going off of Autotrader I can pick up a nice 2019 M5 for about $85K. At the end of 9 months you would have owed $82.3K so about $2700 back in your pocket. Your total out of pocket would be $17,300 by comparison. In addition you would have missed out on about $1500 in growth on your $20K investment assuming approximately 8% return. So the total of your out of pocket and opportunity cost would have been $18,800.

In this standard situation taking the exact same car it is significantly more expensive to purchase than lease and this is very common with BMW finance structures. If we were talking about MB or Porsche they lean much more heavily towards purchase being the better option.

Finally we have to talk about risk. If anything happens during your ownership, accident, major motor repair, etc. you are on the hook for the decrease in value. What do you think the value of that M5 would have been if it were in a minor accident with $10K in damage? 10% less? 20? It is significant. With a lease if the car is worth less than the residual value I hand the keys to BMW and go on my way. If it is worth more I drive down to Carmax or list the car a few month before the termination date and sell it pocketing the difference, again without paying sales tax. I can also still choose to sell the vehicle at any time in the lease period and the payoff decreases just like a standard loan with an amortization schedule. There is literally no downside to a BMW lease.
You're also making a bunch of assumptions here. Your numbers are based off the assumption that everyone wants to lease an expensive M car. You're assuming paying tax on the full 60K MSRP, which is not true because dealers will discount roughly 10% off MSRP on any new 3 series model and use any trade in as a tax credit. You're assuming a financing term of 72 months which plays into my argument of paying off the loan as quickly as possible, which is why I mentioned 36 month financing.

You're trying to justify leasing a $125,000 car because maybe you're biweekly paycheck will allow you to make those lease payments, sans any extraneous investments that generate you a cash flow. But I can assure you that the majority of people aren't looking at these kind of cars.

To me, a 1000 car payment, whether a lease or finance, is insane. But maybe because I'm not at that level yet, which is fine.

As far as market return, I do just fine, I'm 28 and own investment property as well as numerous mutual funds, so I don't need to be schooled in the book of investing.

Last edited by ThatKrazyPolak; 11-17-2020 at 01:12 PM..
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      11-17-2020, 01:26 PM   #47
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People b-ching about lease & etc have zero understanding of how it works and most likely never leased a car of their own. In OPs particular case I actually see ZERO difference in buying vs leasing!

His best option is to find someone who will take if off of his hands and do a lease transfer...... may be offer an incentive here and there.

His other option is to buy the car like stated above and put it up for sale. That would be no different than buying it when new but will most likely lose more $$$ compared to above option...... So in this case leasing is a way better!

My car has been sitting infront of my house and we were 5K into 12K a year lease on the darn thing! So what we did was to take a 6K mile road trip to midwest and I am all caught up with miles. If this lockdown continues, our plan is to take another trip next spring as well.

I am returning that car with 36K miles and many road trips later. I am still loving every min of this car

Salespunk my hat is off to you, couldn't of said it better myself.
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      11-17-2020, 03:48 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by TTG View Post
People b-ching about lease & etc have zero understanding of how it works and most likely never leased a car of their own. In OPs particular case I actually see ZERO difference in buying vs leasing!

His best option is to find someone who will take if off of his hands and do a lease transfer...... may be offer an incentive here and there.

His other option is to buy the car like stated above and put it up for sale. That would be no different than buying it when new but will most likely lose more $$$ compared to above option...... So in this case leasing is a way better!

My car has been sitting infront of my house and we were 5K into 12K a year lease on the darn thing! So what we did was to take a 6K mile road trip to midwest and I am all caught up with miles. If this lockdown continues, our plan is to take another trip next spring as well.

I am returning that car with 36K miles and many road trips later. I am still loving every min of this car

Salespunk my hat is off to you, couldn't of said it better myself.
This is a stylistic thing. Leasing is usually more expensive than buying, and that's due in part to the fact that you're doing it with a new vehicle. If you buy or lease a new vehicle, you're going to lose something like 40% of your money in the first three years regardless. Ideally, with the lease, you're only paying for what you lose, and with a loan you're paying for the car.

For the deal I got with some of the best leasing offers out there, I'd be saving about $4k in the first three years but I wouldn't have the mileage restriction. That said, I'm tying up money in the car that I *could* invest. In that case, I might actually be losing money versus leasing.

What we really should say is that if you want to save money, you should buy a certified used offloaded lease. It'll be low mileage, have knocked off the lions' share of the depreciation, but still have the factory warranty and sometimes eligible for promotional financing and other rebates.

My F30 was that. I got a great 0% loan and it had super low mileage. I got a much better deal than a lease and the car didn't depreciate nearly as much as a new vehicle at the time. This time, I realize I'm over-paying. Is what it is.

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      11-20-2020, 06:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by mmp151 View Post
Hi Folks. Just like many folks cause of the global pandemic we're not using our 2020 m340 (Black on Black) that we custom ordered. We're tied into a 45,000 / 3 year lease which ends in January 2023, and the car barely has 5,000 miles on it. So I'm looking at what my options are, if someone takes over the lease they would practically get over 20k miles per year (since there's almost two years remaining with 40k+ miles left on the lease). I tried to contact BMW hoping they would help me terminate my lease early without any fees / payouts because of the pandemic but they weren't very helpful at all. So wondering how folks have done this before? What sites do you recommend for these transfers? Any is the market flooded with others like me; will it take forever to get this car off my hands? Appreciate the help and insight from others in similar situations or who have done this in the past.
Where are you located? I may be interested to take it over.
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      11-20-2020, 07:17 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Try lease leasehackr.com, I see countless BMW lease transfers posted there and people are genuinely interested provided the payments are reasonable of course.
Leasehackr will eat you for breakfast if your deal isn’t superb. I’m going to guess with a 15k/36mo lease, the deal isn’t going to be superb.
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      11-20-2020, 07:51 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Try lease leasehackr.com, I see countless BMW lease transfers posted there and people are genuinely interested provided the payments are reasonable of course.
Leasehackr will eat you for breakfast if your deal isn't superb. I'm going to guess with a 15k/36mo lease, the deal isn't going to be superb.
LOL yeah over there if you're not paying $500 a month for a 70k car you're an Amateur who doesn't know how to buy cars
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      11-21-2020, 05:17 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
And this gentlemen, is why you don't lease cars. Payments on $45,000 worth of depreciating metal (although it's a nice piece of metal) are not going to look pretty, especially since there's no initial deposit as is common on most leases.

If you gave me a decently speced M340, marked down 10% with dealer discounts and incentives and no mileage, I would gladly take that because I could reduce that initial loan down 20K easily. In this case, OP has to eat payments, and potentially offer something more to get rid of the lease.
Nonsense.

You can negotiate down the price on a lease just like a purchase. 10% off with incentives is just as applicable in both scenarios.

Right now the OP has the option to sell his car to anyone. The price would be the same if he financed or leased. The amount he paid out of pocket would be almost the same.

The advantage with the lease is that his residual is economy proof in the best way. If the economy is shit and no one is buying, he still retains the same residual value on the lease and has paid the same depreciation... BUT, if the car's value happens to be more than predicted residual on the lease, he can sell the car and keep the difference between lease payoff and selling price.
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      11-21-2020, 05:21 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
That's assuming you want to be in a new car every three years and investing isn't on the forefront of your mind.
You can't do both? Maybe you just don't make enough.
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      11-21-2020, 05:33 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
You're also making a bunch of assumptions here. Your numbers are based off the assumption that everyone wants to lease an expensive M car. You're assuming paying tax on the full 60K MSRP, which is not true because dealers will discount roughly 10% off MSRP on any new 3 series model and use any trade in as a tax credit.
If you are trading in a car, then you have to account for the selling price of the car. You aren't "saving" anything, you have paid for it in the trade-in car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
You're assuming a financing term of 72 months which plays into my argument of paying off the loan as quickly as possible, which is why I mentioned 36 month financing.

You're trying to justify leasing a $125,000 car because maybe you're biweekly paycheck will allow you to make those lease payments, sans any extraneous investments that generate you a cash flow. But I can assure you that the majority of people aren't looking at these kind of cars.
M cars (except the M2) have an abnormally inflated RV, which is why the leases are attractive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
To me, a 1000 car payment, whether a lease or finance, is insane. But maybe because I'm not at that level yet, which is fine.
That's right... TO YOU. So please don't spread more misinformation based on criteria only applicable to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
As far as market return, I do just fine, I'm 28 and own investment property as well as numerous mutual funds, so I don't need to be schooled in the book of investing.
Most of us are adults well into their careers and make a decent living. We are more than capable of doing the math and weighing our options on the best way to have several cars in our stable. No one is saying financing is bad because most of us know that everyone's situation is different. However, the one making blanket statements here is you. So please follow your own advice and stop trying to school OTHERS in investing. I can guarantee you'll just be preaching to the choir.
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      11-21-2020, 10:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Most of us are adults well into their careers and make a decent living. We are more than capable of doing the math and weighing our options on the best way to have several cars in our stable. No one is saying financing is bad because most of us know that everyone's situation is different. However, the one making blanket statements here is you. So please follow your own advice and stop trying to school OTHERS in investing. I can guarantee you'll just be preaching to the choir.

Well-said.
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      11-21-2020, 11:36 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Because a 60K car financed with 20K down would give you around a $500-600 monthly payment. After the car is paid off, assuming moderate mileage and no accidents on a 3 year finance you have 30-40K in your pocket.

If I lease that same car with no money down I'm out of the 20K with nothing to show for it, not even a car I could sell. And guess what? If I use that 30K to buy another 60K car I'm only paying on 30K of a loan, assuming no money down.

That's why you finance. When you finance your able to play with your money. When you lease, you have no leverage.
You like to purchase and that is fine. You definitely don't understand finance very well though. For a $60K car you put $20K down, there is opportunity cost for that $20K not being in your brokerage account. You are also taking on full risk for the value of that car at the 3 year mark either high or low. Finally you are also paying sales tax on the full $60K purchase price. You are assuming you cannot sell a leased vehicle or that there is no transfer available, both of which are incorrect.

Now let's take my M5 lease as an example. My 2019 had a sticker of $125K. I received a $21K discount off list for a capitalized cost of $104K. My payment was ~$1275/mo including sales tax with only drive offs which were about $2400. I transferred my M5 to another person with zero out of pocket after 9 months of ownership because of WFH. My total out of pocket was $11,475.

If you purchased the vehicle the math would look like this;

$104K purchase price
$9.1K sales tax
$113.1K OTD
-$20K down payment
$93.1K financed
$1414/mo assuming 3% interest rate and 72 month financing

Going off of Autotrader I can pick up a nice 2019 M5 for about $85K. At the end of 9 months you would have owed $82.3K so about $2700 back in your pocket. Your total out of pocket would be $17,300 by comparison. In addition you would have missed out on about $1500 in growth on your $20K investment assuming approximately 8% return. So the total of your out of pocket and opportunity cost would have been $18,800.

In this standard situation taking the exact same car it is significantly more expensive to purchase than lease and this is very common with BMW finance structures. If we were talking about MB or Porsche they lean much more heavily towards purchase being the better option.

Finally we have to talk about risk. If anything happens during your ownership, accident, major motor repair, etc. you are on the hook for the decrease in value. What do you think the value of that M5 would have been if it were in a minor accident with $10K in damage? 10% less? 20? It is significant. With a lease if the car is worth less than the residual value I hand the keys to BMW and go on my way. If it is worth more I drive down to Carmax or list the car a few month before the termination date and sell it pocketing the difference, again without paying sales tax. I can also still choose to sell the vehicle at any time in the lease period and the payoff decreases just like a standard loan with an amortization schedule. There is literally no downside to a BMW lease.
Very well written.
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      11-22-2020, 02:27 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Because a 60K car financed with 20K down would give you around a $500-600 monthly payment. After the car is paid off, assuming moderate mileage and no accidents on a 3 year finance you have 30-40K in your pocket.

If I lease that same car with no money down I'm out of the 20K with nothing to show for it, not even a car I could sell. And guess what? If I use that 30K to buy another 60K car I'm only paying on 30K of a loan, assuming no money down.

That's why you finance. When you finance your able to play with your money. When you lease, you have no leverage.
You like to purchase and that is fine. You definitely don't understand finance very well though. For a $60K car you put $20K down, there is opportunity cost for that $20K not being in your brokerage account. You are also taking on full risk for the value of that car at the 3 year mark either high or low. Finally you are also paying sales tax on the full $60K purchase price. You are assuming you cannot sell a leased vehicle or that there is no transfer available, both of which are incorrect.

Now let's take my M5 lease as an example. My 2019 had a sticker of $125K. I received a $21K discount off list for a capitalized cost of $104K. My payment was ~$1275/mo including sales tax with only drive offs which were about $2400. I transferred my M5 to another person with zero out of pocket after 9 months of ownership because of WFH. My total out of pocket was $11,475.

If you purchased the vehicle the math would look like this;

$104K purchase price
$9.1K sales tax
$113.1K OTD
-$20K down payment
$93.1K financed
$1414/mo assuming 3% interest rate and 72 month financing

Going off of Autotrader I can pick up a nice 2019 M5 for about $85K. At the end of 9 months you would have owed $82.3K so about $2700 back in your pocket. Your total out of pocket would be $17,300 by comparison. In addition you would have missed out on about $1500 in growth on your $20K investment assuming approximately 8% return. So the total of your out of pocket and opportunity cost would have been $18,800.

In this standard situation taking the exact same car it is significantly more expensive to purchase than lease and this is very common with BMW finance structures. If we were talking about MB or Porsche they lean much more heavily towards purchase being the better option.

Finally we have to talk about risk. If anything happens during your ownership, accident, major motor repair, etc. you are on the hook for the decrease in value. What do you think the value of that M5 would have been if it were in a minor accident with $10K in damage? 10% less? 20? It is significant. With a lease if the car is worth less than the residual value I hand the keys to BMW and go on my way. If it is worth more I drive down to Carmax or list the car a few month before the termination date and sell it pocketing the difference, again without paying sales tax. I can also still choose to sell the vehicle at any time in the lease period and the payoff decreases just like a standard loan with an amortization schedule. There is literally no downside to a BMW lease.
You're also making a bunch of assumptions here. Your numbers are based off the assumption that everyone wants to lease an expensive M car. You're assuming paying tax on the full 60K MSRP, which is not true because dealers will discount roughly 10% off MSRP on any new 3 series model and use any trade in as a tax credit. You're assuming a financing term of 72 months which plays into my argument of paying off the loan as quickly as possible, which is why I mentioned 36 month financing.

You're trying to justify leasing a $125,000 car because maybe you're biweekly paycheck will allow you to make those lease payments, sans any extraneous investments that generate you a cash flow. But I can assure you that the majority of people aren't looking at these kind of cars.

To me, a 1000 car payment, whether a lease or finance, is insane. But maybe because I'm not at that level yet, which is fine.

As far as market return, I do just fine, I'm 28 and own investment property as well as numerous mutual funds, so I don't need to be schooled in the book of investing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Because a 60K car financed with 20K down would give you around a $500-600 monthly payment. After the car is paid off, assuming moderate mileage and no accidents on a 3 year finance you have 30-40K in your pocket.

If I lease that same car with no money down I'm out of the 20K with nothing to show for it, not even a car I could sell. And guess what? If I use that 30K to buy another 60K car I'm only paying on 30K of a loan, assuming no money down.

That's why you finance. When you finance your able to play with your money. When you lease, you have no leverage.
You like to purchase and that is fine. You definitely don't understand finance very well though. For a $60K car you put $20K down, there is opportunity cost for that $20K not being in your brokerage account. You are also taking on full risk for the value of that car at the 3 year mark either high or low. Finally you are also paying sales tax on the full $60K purchase price. You are assuming you cannot sell a leased vehicle or that there is no transfer available, both of which are incorrect.

Now let's take my M5 lease as an example. My 2019 had a sticker of $125K. I received a $21K discount off list for a capitalized cost of $104K. My payment was ~$1275/mo including sales tax with only drive offs which were about $2400. I transferred my M5 to another person with zero out of pocket after 9 months of ownership because of WFH. My total out of pocket was $11,475.

If you purchased the vehicle the math would look like this;

$104K purchase price
$9.1K sales tax
$113.1K OTD
-$20K down payment
$93.1K financed
$1414/mo assuming 3% interest rate and 72 month financing

Going off of Autotrader I can pick up a nice 2019 M5 for about $85K. At the end of 9 months you would have owed $82.3K so about $2700 back in your pocket. Your total out of pocket would be $17,300 by comparison. In addition you would have missed out on about $1500 in growth on your $20K investment assuming approximately 8% return. So the total of your out of pocket and opportunity cost would have been $18,800.

In this standard situation taking the exact same car it is significantly more expensive to purchase than lease and this is very common with BMW finance structures. If we were talking about MB or Porsche they lean much more heavily towards purchase being the better option.

Finally we have to talk about risk. If anything happens during your ownership, accident, major motor repair, etc. you are on the hook for the decrease in value. What do you think the value of that M5 would have been if it were in a minor accident with $10K in damage? 10% less? 20? It is significant. With a lease if the car is worth less than the residual value I hand the keys to BMW and go on my way. If it is worth more I drive down to Carmax or list the car a few month before the termination date and sell it pocketing the difference, again without paying sales tax. I can also still choose to sell the vehicle at any time in the lease period and the payoff decreases just like a standard loan with an amortization schedule. There is literally no downside to a BMW lease.
You're also making a bunch of assumptions here. Your numbers are based off the assumption that everyone wants to lease an expensive M car. You're assuming paying tax on the full 60K MSRP, which is not true because dealers will discount roughly 10% off MSRP on any new 3 series model and use any trade in as a tax credit. You're assuming a financing term of 72 months which plays into my argument of paying off the loan as quickly as possible, which is why I mentioned 36 month financing.

You're trying to justify leasing a $125,000 car because maybe you're biweekly paycheck will allow you to make those lease payments, sans any extraneous investments that generate you a cash flow. But I can assure you that the majority of people aren't looking at these kind of cars.

To me, a 1000 car payment, whether a lease or finance, is insane. But maybe because I'm not at that level yet, which is fine.

As far as market return, I do just fine, I'm 28 and own investment property as well as numerous mutual funds, so I don't need to be schooled in the book of investing.
Even 36 month financing on a 40k loan example you originally provided equates to well over a $1000 "insane" car payment. This is why some people choose to lease; it provides a route to get into the same car for a fraction of the monthly cost without having to fork over a large down payment. To each their own.
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      11-22-2020, 07:26 PM   #58
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Isn't a part of being an adult making good financial decisions?

I think the majority of us here are relatively well off and enjoy driving these cars without it hurting our bottom line, but let's not get into the habit of saying "we are able to get into the same car with no money down". Uhh, newsflash, that means you can't afford the car.

Do NOT lease a car for 72 months with a 1000 dollar payment, that's an asinine financial decision that doesn't make sense for anyone unless you own a yacht and can afford vacations in the Maldives.

Do you know why something like the M3 is so elusive? Because not everyone can afford it. The problem is some morally bankrupt dealer will ask you "how much can you afford" and convince you to take the car while you have $400 monthly student loan payments and buy the crappiest version of Kraft cheese at the supermarket and cry yourself to sleep. Leases are complete scam propagated by the dealership elite to make you feel like your saving a quick buck.
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      11-22-2020, 07:46 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Isn't a part of being an adult making good financial decisions?

I think the majority of us here are relatively well off and enjoy driving these cars without it hurting our bottom line, but let's not get into the habit of saying "we are able to get into the same car with no money down". Uhh, newsflash, that means you can't afford the car.

Do NOT lease a car for 72 months with a 1000 dollar payment, that's an asinine financial decision that doesn't make sense for anyone unless you own a yacht and can afford vacations in the Maldives.

Do you know why something like the M3 is so elusive? Because not everyone can afford it. The problem is some morally bankrupt dealer will ask you "how much can you afford" and convince you to take the car while you have $400 monthly student loan payments and buy the crappiest version of Kraft cheese at the supermarket and cry yourself to sleep. Leases are complete scam propagated by the dealership elite to make you feel like your saving a quick buck.
In many instances leasing is the good financial decision to make. If a consumer likes to have a new car every few years whether just to keep up to date, not have a car out of warranty, or any other reason, then it will usually be less expensive to lease rather than purchase.

There is no correct answer to the general question of whether purchasing or leasing is better, that can only be determined for specific situations.
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      11-22-2020, 09:17 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
You're also making a bunch of assumptions here. Your numbers are based off the assumption that everyone wants to lease an expensive M car. You're assuming paying tax on the full 60K MSRP, which is not true because dealers will discount roughly 10% off MSRP on any new 3 series model and use any trade in as a tax credit. You're assuming a financing term of 72 months which plays into my argument of paying off the loan as quickly as possible, which is why I mentioned 36 month financing.

You're trying to justify leasing a $125,000 car because maybe you're biweekly paycheck will allow you to make those lease payments, sans any extraneous investments that generate you a cash flow. But I can assure you that the majority of people aren't looking at these kind of cars.

To me, a 1000 car payment, whether a lease or finance, is insane. But maybe because I'm not at that level yet, which is fine.

As far as market return, I do just fine, I'm 28 and own investment property as well as numerous mutual funds, so I don't need to be schooled in the book of investing.

Would you mind contacting me on nafelabdal@gmail.com regarding your ideas on mutual funds? I am trying to get into the market. I would appreciate your advice, thanks.
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      11-22-2020, 09:41 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Isn't a part of being an adult making good financial decisions?

I think the majority of us here are relatively well off and enjoy driving these cars without it hurting our bottom line, but let's not get into the habit of saying "we are able to get into the same car with no money down". Uhh, newsflash, that means you can't afford the car.

Do NOT lease a car for 72 months with a 1000 dollar payment, that's an asinine financial decision that doesn't make sense for anyone unless you own a yacht and can afford vacations in the Maldives.

Do you know why something like the M3 is so elusive? Because not everyone can afford it. The problem is some morally bankrupt dealer will ask you "how much can you afford" and convince you to take the car while you have $400 monthly student loan payments and buy the crappiest version of Kraft cheese at the supermarket and cry yourself to sleep. Leases are complete scam propagated by the dealership elite to make you feel like your saving a quick buck.
What? You don't put money down on a lease because if something happens you lose that money. Second you can't lease a car for 72 months. What you're saying is the equivalent of if you don't pay cash for a car outright you can't afford it. Way too many assumptions. I don't know any rich people who pay cash for luxury cars. It's financially more responsible to get a low interest loan and use that money elsewhere.

You sound bitter that you don't understand leasing. You don't own your car if you're financing either. So until you pay that car off you're renting it from the Bank.
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      11-23-2020, 04:03 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Isn't a part of being an adult making good financial decisions?

I think the majority of us here are relatively well off and enjoy driving these cars without it hurting our bottom line, but let's not get into the habit of saying "we are able to get into the same car with no money down". Uhh, newsflash, that means you can't afford the car.
That's extremely narrow minded. Newsflash for you: I can afford and want a new toy car every 3 years. A NEW one, not a used one. I chose to lease because I did the math and it was a better deal, and I will take an opportunity to save money wether or not I can afford something. Wouldn't you?

MSRP of my current car is $107k. Discount was to $92k. RV was 59% for 12k miles/yr. Monthly is $1040/mo including tax for 36 months. $0 down, $0 first month, $0 drive off. $1040*35=$36,400 total cost over 3 years.

Let's say I paid $92k cash instead. Right now I see a M3 CS near me for $59k used. $92k-59k= $33k. Here's the catch, it's only 2 years old. I can safely assume that the used car will depreciate more than $3k in a year. So at the end of 3 years I would have either broken even or saved a few thousand with the lease. Keep in mind that an accidents will diminish the resale value, which is not an issue with leasing. Also, if the used car market is garbage, I could lose more. If the used car market is a seller's market, then I can still sell and make some money. Additionally, if I financed I would be paying more than $92k due to interest. My $1040 lease payment already includes interest. Also, with leasing, I just turn it into the dealer. No need to deal with the hassle of finding a buyer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Do NOT lease a car for 72 months with a 1000 dollar payment, that's an asinine financial decision that doesn't make sense for anyone unless you own a yacht and can afford vacations in the Maldives.
Leasing for 72 months doesn't makes sense. The RV will be way too high. The fact that you even brought this up and a down payment in another post tells me you don't really understand leasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
Do you know why something like the M3 is so elusive? Because not everyone can afford it. The problem is some morally bankrupt dealer will ask you "how much can you afford" and convince you to take the car while you have $400 monthly student loan payments and buy the crappiest version of Kraft cheese at the supermarket and cry yourself to sleep. Leases are complete scam propagated by the dealership elite to make you feel like your saving a quick buck.
The misconception is that leasing is a cheap way to have a car. That's not what I am saying at all. If the residuals are right, leasing can be a viable option for having a new car every 3 years with less risk and less hassle. However, it costs a bit more than buying a car and keeping it for 6 years (do the math). But, that's the luxury you are paying for in a lease. If you think of leasing as a luxury, then you are doing it right.
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      11-23-2020, 01:48 PM   #63
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Second you can buy the lease at the end of the terms should you want to. Again what is your agenda here you come off like a teenage troll that can't afford any car and come here to stir up s***
I couldn't help myself from looking at his previous posts:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1132153

Go have a laugh and then let's all stop feeding the troll.
Ok I was right LOL, thanks for this. I'll ignore going forward.
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      11-23-2020, 03:17 PM   #64
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I don't know guys if you did the math.
Lease is better if you want to change a car every 3 years
Loan is better if you want to own a car long term like 5-7 years
Paying 100% in cash in developed countries makes sense if you are laundering money (and dealer don't ask where did you get that cash)

I know you guys are spoiled in US that's why you mostly lease and get a new car every 3 years. I'd probably do the same in US. In EU not so many families can afford a new car every 3 years.

However, regardless of the choice - if you can not afford a car you should not buy one. If you lost you job and can not pay lease/loan then you are screwed. Your credit score is screwed. I hope the topic starter is not desperate and just trying to get rid of thing that he is not using. Selling/gifting something that you don't use is way better than waiting until it will depreciate to zero.

Good luck with lease transfer!
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      11-23-2020, 04:47 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by ArchJR View Post
I couldn't help myself from looking at his previous posts:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1132153

Go have a laugh and then let's all stop feeding the troll.
LOL typical know-it-all talking out of his ass.
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