[jmg]

Originally Posted by peteyrx7

From what I recall, no, the federal credit did not show up as a cap cost reduction, only the clean fuel rewards in CA was passed along which was $1500 of the total $9000 of ev related credits the car qualified for. The purchase on the other hand provided a full $9000 of EV credits along with another 2500 finance credit, 1000 loyalty, and I also had an OL code for a BMW event. Unlike the lease, I also didn't need to incur lease inception/return fees or incur all interest costs up front, as is done on a lease. The only downside to the purchase was paying tax on the full sale amount. All told, the 45e wound up being significantly cheaper to buy than a comparable X5 Xdrive 40i.

No federal credit would be a deal breaker for me too.

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by jmg

No federal credit would be a deal breaker for me too.

We have leased two ev's in the past couple years and both times we were able to take advantage of $7500 federal rebate as part of the deal. Nissan was very transparent about it. The CA rebate (old one) we had to file for on our own and got a check in the mail. Same for the $600 local utility rebate. I believe both of those are gone now and it's just the $1500.

Don't think we'll go i4 though. I am not sold on the front grills and my wife really likes the x5 45e. Our close friends have one and love it. With charging at home and using all electric as much as possible, they got over 900 miles on one tank of gas. Sure it has way more complexity given the hybrid drive train, but it hits the sweet spot if you take road trips. And with a lease, I am not concerned about longevity of the drive train. It's all under warranty for as long as we would drive it.

[soheil]

Originally Posted by The J-Man

Charging a non Tesla car is absolutely a problem. I charged my i3 probably 5 times in 5 years away from home. It was just such a hassle. The chargers are often broken or out of service and they are extremely expensive. And in popular places like the airport, there is never enough availability. And if you can manage to find a free charger, odds are that a Nissan Leaf will be hogging it indefinitely.

I think city by city is different. My wife and I have had our i3 for 3 years now and we've completely relied on public charging as we live in an apartment and don't have destination charge option at work. Yes, we've had occasional occupied EVgo fast charge stations but it hasn't been a hassle! The first 2 years we actually had free DC charging because of BMW and EVgo partnership but even without that most of our public parking garages are first 75 minutes park+charge (L2) free and usually there is available stations.

[soheil]

We have a 94Ah i3 lease right now and was looking forward to i4 and iX. Our lease is up in a month so i4/iX timeline doesn't match and we had to go with another i3 (at least this one is 120Ah). But even if they were available right now we wouldn't get them because they're not gonna have any lease deals as sweet as i3 and they are still first gen vehicles (despite the fact that I trust BMW's first gen to TSLA's 5th gen).

[soheil]

Originally Posted by jmg

Yes, this is why leasing EV's are so tempting if they pass the $7500 on as a cap reduction. Not all lenders do this however, which is asinine. It totally defeats the purpose of the incentive: to get people to buy EV's. It's not for the fucking bank to keep as profit, it's for the consumer.

Are you new to banking or to capitalism?

[soheil]

Originally Posted by jmg

Offset your $2k out of pocket with a BMWCCA rebate, state rebate, and SCE rebate and you might be able to get it even cheaper. That's what I did on my past 3 EV's.

We did all of this for our previous i3 lease and now that we are getting another one we found out currently i3 is not eligible for CCA rebate or Fleet Discount! So only Uncle Sam's $7500 and loyalty…

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Nope. Don’t want anything until at least 6+ months of volume production experience for the plant.

Indeed. I am interested in i4 but plan to wait until at least the second year of production.

[soheil]

Originally Posted by peteyrx7

From what I recall, no, the federal credit did not show up as a cap cost reduction, only the clean fuel rewards in CA was passed along which was $1500 of the total $9000 of ev related credits the car qualified for. The purchase on the other hand provided a full $9000 of EV credits along with another 2500 finance credit, 1000 loyalty, and I also had an OL code for a BMW event. Unlike the lease, I also didn't need to incur lease inception/return fees or incur all interest costs up front, as is done on a lease. The only downside to the purchase was paying tax on the full sale amount. All told, the 45e wound up being significantly cheaper to buy than a comparable X5 Xdrive 40i.

Our experience with i3 lease in 2018 was $7500 cap cost reduction

[jmg]

Originally Posted by soheil

We did all of this for our previous i3 lease and now that we are getting another one we found out currently i3 is not eligible for CCA rebate or Fleet Discount! So only Uncle Sam's $7500 and loyalty…

BMWCCA rebate ended a few years ago for the i3. Kinda sucks, but I managed to get $3k out of it! Hopefully they will include the i4 in the program.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by soheil

Our experience with i3 lease in 2018 was $7500 cap cost reduction

Same with my i8 back 5 years ago. Albeit was a little lower than $7500.

[anselansel]

Originally Posted by TCBavarian

This car will play out a bit differently than the i3 playbook. That absolutely depreciated like a tank and for good reason. This should do well in comparison, but more along the lines of typical BMW depreciation. Nothing near as good as Tesla. BMW EVs just don't have that type of marketing hype, and likely never will (Elon's fan base plays a huge role in Tesla's lack of depreciation).

I also doubt there will be massive problems for this car at launch year. BMW has taken a different approach to say Tesla (which is safe to say that first owners are usually beta testers). Extensive real world testing for their EVs goes pretty far back and is well tested. I wouldn't say buyers of these cars are Guinea pigs.

We had first year i3 BEV, 3yrs and 30k miles later. It is without a doubt the most problem free BMW I have ever owned. Zero issues. Zero range degradation. EPA range was 72, we frequently achieved 90-95.

Same goes for our X5 45e, so far we have had zero issues. Advertised EPA range of 30 (I think), and we easily achieve 40.

So I believe that we will likely be hitting closer to the 270mi mark for the M50 and the 40e will be 325mi. We shall see. One of the engineers was saying 300miles range for any type of driving.

Ultimately, we actually appreciate the more traditional styling of the i4 next to the more experimental design of the iX (interior and exterior). The large kidneys of the G22 bothered me as a 80's/90's BMW purist when they first came out, but I feel they work well here.

I did look at Tesla Model 3/Y for my wife, but she felt the interior is really inferior to many cars out there today. Minimalistic/Futuristic absolutely. A button to open the door (cool). iPad screen (cool). Hidden Air vents (cool). But when it came down to touch and feel and appearance, they remind me of late 90s economy cars. Plastics, carpets, edges, stitching and quality of lather, trim joints. So ultimately, no matter how many people, magazines or car companies say otherwise, the Model 3 will always be the EV competitor for say the Honda Civic or Mazda 3 (to my wife and I). Without a doubt it absolutely blows them away (for a price).

I fell this way too. Chevrolet or Ford would be skewered if they put this exact car out under their brands but its tesla so its overlooked. It has the cheapest feel and then they stick a ipad on the dash. Big deal.

[unfoundnemo]

Originally Posted by Mako

Or maybe the M60 is coming in 1-2 years at $80,000 that delivers it all.

If that was the case, they should be filing for an international trademark right about now...
https://www3.wipo.int/madrid/monitor...N:302020115211

[kbNO]

In Norway they opened for orders of the i4 last week. The sales from the first week indicate a huge blockbuster success - I am pretty sure the i4 will be top 5 in the Norwegians sales charts in 2022.

[Haywood]

It's interesting. Under the lease tab, it didn't mention the $7500 credit, but it does on the Cash and Finance tab.

[vladmury]

seems my post has been deleted, some admins here dont accept people have different oppinions

[Archer-s]

Originally Posted by kbNO

In Norway they opened for orders of the i4 last week. The sales from the first week indicate a huge blockbuster success - I am pretty sure the i4 will be top 5 in the Norwegians sales charts in 2022.

Any idea what the exact m50 spec and packs are? Is there more technical detail if they are already for sale?

[blloydtbird]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Same with my i8 back 5 years ago. Albeit was a little lower than $7500.

And we are on our third i3, we lease every two years. We’ve received the $7,500 as a cap reduction every single time. The federal credit, plus loyalty, plus substantial discounts make leasing an i3 and most EVs a bargain.

In terms of the i8 and other PHEVs, the credit is lower than full BEVs as they use less battery power for propulsion.

From IRS.GOV - Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicles (IRC 30D)
Internal Revenue Code Section 30D provides a credit for Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles including passenger vehicles and light trucks. For vehicles acquired after 12/31/2009, the credit is equal to $2,500 plus, for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by vladmury

seems my post has been deleted, some admins here dont accept people have different oppinions

what did you say? What was your contrary opinion?

[peteyrx7]

Originally Posted by Haywood

It's interesting. Under the lease tab, it didn't mention the $7500 credit, but it does on the Cash and Finance tab.

I really think it would be wise for people to confirm with their local dealers how this would work. It's possible my memory is off, my dealer showed incorrect lease figures, I misunderstood my dealer, or the regs on leasing have changed with respect to Federal credit use from the time that some other commenters purchased their EVs to now. At any rate I felt the purchase was more cost effective for my use case since we paid the car off a couple months after purchase and we viewed the alternative as cash earning 0 on the cash not paid for the car while paying interest costs in a lease. I should also note that my dealer did charge 1% above the buy rate so early payoff for a purchase is meaningfully different for that. Your use case and experience may vary.

[peteyrx7]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

True, but as I noted above BMWFS said they are passing the $7,500 along as a downpayment credit. They can then take their own tax credit on their corporate tax return. This is not a dealer issue. This is from BMWFS for their leasing. You can do as I did and call them directly to confirm.

I understand the dealer doesn't set the tax credit terms but they are the conduit for documenting and explaining the terms including any cap cost reduction if it's a lease. This is not how I recall the lease option being explained to me so rather than get into a discussion on which is correct it's best people verify with the party drafting their prospective lease contract, their dealer.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by peteyrx7

I understand the dealer doesn't set the tax credit terms but they are the conduit for documenting and explaining the terms including any cap cost reduction if it's a lease. This is not how I recall the lease option being explained to me so rather than get into a discussion on which is correct it's best people verify with the party drafting their prospective lease contract, their dealer.

Perhaps that works if you believe that 1) your dealer is fully knowledgeable, and 2) your dealer is trustworthy. I have found either or both untrue on occasion.

Which means, confirm with BMWFS first before seeing the dealer to knowledgeably scrutinize their contract.

[bbocaner]

I have put down the deposit on an i4 M50. My wife reserves the right to revoke my permission once she sits in one and makes a judgement about how comfortable it is, but the car looks and sounds fantastic to me, so I'm very excited about it.

I'm excited to hear about more of the details especially about available options and features, and the grille still kind of rubs me the wrong way, but it was good enough that I'm excited to put down the $1500.

I wanted to lease when I bought my 2018 530e in spring 2017 but at that point BMWFS was not passing along the PHEV federal tax credit to lessees. They told me because it was a new and in-demand model they didn't feel they had to!? I don't know if they eventually did on later ones or not. I ended up having to finance it instead. It made me a little angry as they didn't disclose this until the car was ready and we were signing final paperwork, but I guess I'm more shrewd now because of that experience.

That car, despite being one of the first made, has been flawless over the 50,000 miles I've put on it, with just a few extremely minor glitches they've been able to solve while I waited. I used to be of the mind that it was a bad idea to buy the first year, but I'm not so worried about it. They did make some nice upgrades and additional options available in subsequent years, but it's a trade-off. I was happy to have had the car extra years.

I asked the tech I work with at the dealership about this and she indicated that they've been doing a really good job engineering all the more recent models in the past 5 or so years and she wouldn't hesitate to get the first MY of a new car.