[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by bobert

Put me on that list - I won't be back. I'm writing off BMW for pretty much all the reasons others have stated here - design, no longer the "ultimate driving machine", lack of MT, & now no more ED.

I can buy the argument about BMW price point (vs Porsche), but not for a Miata - the Miata is appealing not 'cause it's considerably less expensive - I'd say it's more 'cause it's a very different driving experience - tiny, lightweight, convertible, etc - you can actually feel the speed in it. I can see myself buying a Porsche next and then another Miata after it (such as if my current one - 21 yrs old - were to bite the dust).

Great! Thanks for sharing, everyone is allowed to make their ultimate decision at the end whether to stick with a brand or not.

And we can agree for you that you don't think the price argument is an incentive to buy a Miata. But rest assured, many Miata owners chose the car specially because of its price delta compared to other true sports car. How do I know? Because I asked.

And like I have been saying on multiple posts, go get the Porsche, it's better. Actually you know the silver lining to BMW closing ED? It's actually making people say they will move to Porsche. Way to go, do it!

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So you're assuming a large company like BMW didn't analyze the situation long before deciding to cancel the program. Are we dealing with imbeciles?

It's seems that people are posting remarks without any business sense or understanding of business at a global level...

Of course eliminating a problem will require careful analysis of various metrics and data driven insights. BMW do not just employ factory workers, engineers and designers...

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

It's seems that people are posting remarks without any business sense or understanding of business at a global level...

Of course eliminating a problem will require careful analysis of various metrics and data driven insights. BMW do not just employ factory workers, engineers and designers...

Designers? That is very much debatable as of late

[ArchJR]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So you're assuming a large company like BMW didn't analyze the situation long before deciding to cancel the program. Are we dealing with imbeciles?

We're dealing with impassioned customers who formed a bond with a corporation, and expect the corporation to cultivate that bond in return. BMW Group is quite adept, like any sophisticated corporation, at making customers believe all of the experiences and perks bestowed upon them are earned rewards for an imaginary "club". In the end, the European Delivery program is a marketing line item that no longer pencils.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ArchJR

We're dealing with impassioned customers who formed a bond with a corporation, and expect the corporation to cultivate that bond in return. BMW Group is quite adept, like any sophisticated corporation, at making customers believe all of the experiences and perks bestowed upon them are earned rewards for an imaginary "club". In the end, the European Delivery program is a marketing line item that no longer pencils.

Sometimes things happen, like when manual transmissions are no longer a line item. Thankfully BMW is one of the few manufacturers that still itemizes the MT. There's always a silver lining.

[m3welt]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

It'll be back. Just a Covid response. I'm sure BMW would rather break up with us here then have fewer scheduled ED customers on record. All companies are distancing themselves from personal contact or risk based off personal interaction. Anyone wanna bet a few bucks ED will be back for the G series M3/4 launch next year?

I hope so! I was planning on doing that

[///bproden]

Anyone know if there are higher rates of ED for new models compared to models 4-5 years old? What models are also highest for ED?

I wonder if that has any impact on why ED is down. If a higher number of brand driven customers purchase earlier in production than the later years.

[///bproden]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It's interesting that a 75% drop in business resulting in a cancellation is ruled a bad decision by BMW. If anybody here was running a business and observed that significant a decline, they would make a similar decision as well. Emotions truly do obfuscate reason.

I did one Ed, but also purchased 2 other models since. How do you put a number on that? Just because ED is down doesn't necessary contribute to a loss in overall revenues for the company

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///bproden

I did one Ed, but also purchased 2 other models since. How do you put a number on that? Just because ED is down doesn't necessary contribute to a loss in overall revenues for the company

When did I state a revenue figure? I merely repeated BMW's explicit statement(s). It's plainly obvious to anybody with business sense that revenue is the driving factor behind business decisions however.

[///bproden]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

When did I state a revenue figure? I merely repeated BMW's explicit statement(s). It's plainly obvious to anybody with business sense that revenue generates business decisions however.

What is advertising? That's a business expense. So all business should stop advertising and marketing since it's a loss in revenue right?

Business is more than just a one line item. Have you ever heard of the Pareto Principle? 80/20 rule? 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. Those are your repeat customers. There is more to consider when cutting out brand driven customers than a short term loss.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by ///bproden

What is advertising? That's a business expense. So all business should stop advertising and marketing since it's a loss in revenue right?

Business is more than just a one line item. Have you ever heard of the Pareto Principle? 80/20 rule? 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. Those are your repeat customers. There is more to consider when cutting out brand driven customers than a short term loss.

I pretty much agree with this. I think on paper, it's very easy to justify these moves. It's only after years of successive moves like this that the negative consequences may bear out.

Yes, everyone and their dog (especially their dog) wants an SUV. Particularly those made by German luxury and sports car brands. That said, I'd submit the whole reason they want those SUVs is because of the luxury and/or sportiness that brand exemplifies.

If you went out and lined up a bunch of cars from Porsche, all de-badged and only visible from the side profile, I'd be willing to bet the average score for identification by a random sampling asked the question, "which one is the Porsche?" would undoubtedly be highest for the 911 coupe. I think it would be the same for an E/S class Mercedes. Ironically, for BMW, it'd be harder to guess the winner.

The enthusiasts are like the geeks that used to line up to see Steve Jobs release the latest iProduct. Unless BMW (or Porsche or Mercedes) can transform their leading product into basically a utility, I'd be willing to guess these types of moves may not be the best in the long run.

[Conissah]

Didn't read all the replies, but don't think I've seen any mention of emissions...

I'm not a betting man, but I'd put money on emissions as the main reason for cancelling ED for NA customers. Euro emissions are more stringent than here in NA, and it's only to get worse. They have OPF, we do not. That's extra sensors, possibly a different tune, obviously different exhausts, etc. It doesn't make sense to make an NA spec car in the EU plant, and let an NA customer pick it up and ship it over to NA. They would possibly have to change tooling on their machines, they would need different stock of parts, and I'm not sure how legal it would be. With the new plant in Mexico, those will be tooled and stocked for all the NA parts. I don't think it's nearly as much about money as it is emissions and the legality of all of that nonsense.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///bproden

What is advertising? That's a business expense. So all business should stop advertising and marketing since it's a loss in revenue right?

Business is more than just a one line item. Have you ever heard of the Pareto Principle? 80/20 rule? 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. Those are your repeat customers. There is more to consider when cutting out brand driven customers than a short term loss.

Well since a bunch of members here seem to know better than BMW what's right for the bottom line of their company (...and their financial portfolio), maybe you guys can set up a Zoom conference call and set the company on a better trajectory.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Well since a bunch of members here seem to know better than BMW what's right for the bottom line of their company (...and their financial portfolio), maybe you guys can set up a Zoom conference call and set the company on a better trajectory.

All your comments are very snarky and are just plain assumptions passed on as facts.

Unless you work at BMW and had intimate knowledge of the cancellation of the ED program- I suggest you temper your attitude especially to members that spent hard earned money to purchase BMWs over the years and participated in this program.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by ///bproden

What is advertising? That's a business expense. So all business should stop advertising and marketing since it's a loss in revenue right?

Business is more than just a one line item. Have you ever heard of the Pareto Principle? 80/20 rule? 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. Those are your repeat customers. There is more to consider when cutting out brand driven customers than a short term loss.

This. At least some people get it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by R N M

All your comments are very snarky and are just plain assumptions passed on as facts.

Unless you work at BMW and had intimate knowledge of the cancellation of the ED program- I suggest you temper your attitude especially to members that spent hard earned money to purchase BMWs over the years and participated in this program.

You are hilarious!

I repeat verbatim what BMW stated (...and respond in tune to other people's assumptions being passed off as fact), and you want to sit atop your soapbox and lecture me about assumptions?!?! Save it! You are a master of the non-sequitur.

People spending their hard earned money is irrelevant. We've all spent our hard earned money on BMW. That doesn't make us privy to behind the scenes decision making. All we can do is take BMW's official statement at face value.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Didn't read all the replies, but don't think I've seen any mention of emissions...

I'm not a betting man, but I'd put money on emissions as the main reason for cancelling ED for NA customers. Euro emissions are more stringent than here in NA, and it's only to get worse. They have OPF, we do not. That's extra sensors, possibly a different tune, obviously different exhausts, etc. It doesn't make sense to make an NA spec car in the EU plant, and let an NA customer pick it up and ship it over to NA. They would possibly have to change tooling on their machines, they would need different stock of parts, and I'm not sure how legal it would be. With the new plant in Mexico, those will be tooled and stocked for all the NA parts. I don't think it's nearly as much about money as it is emissions and the legality of all of that nonsense.

With just in time assembly techniques, it’s less of an issue these days. And as long as BMW still makes even 1 US model in European factories, your argument is not valid.

4/5/7/8 models, M cars included, will still be made in Germany for the next cycle.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by R N M

All your comments are very snarky and are just plain assumptions passed on as facts.

Unless you work at BMW and had intimate knowledge of the cancellation of the ED program- I suggest you temper your attitude especially to members that spent hard earned money to purchase BMWs over the years and participated in this program.

Don't waste your time. Sedan Clan is a BMW apologist.

Shitty new design changes with horrible grilles. No problem Sedan Clan loves them and states with authority "BMW can do no wrong they know what they are doing"

Killing ED. No worries. Sedan Clan proudly states "BMW corporate can't possibly make a mistake, they've done the math. This won't affect their bottom line or the brand one bit"

I think he should stick to giving out seatbelts tickets instead of being BMWs forum liaison.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Don't waste your time. Sedan Clan is a BMW apologist.

Shitty new design changes with horrible grilles. No problem Sedan Clan loves them and states with authority "BMW can do no wrong they know what they are doing"

Killing ED. No worries. Sedan Clan proudly states "BMW corporate can't possibly make a mistake, they've done the math. This won't affect their bottom line or the brand one bit"

I think he should stick to giving out seatbelts tickets instead of being BMWs forum liaison.

I still love you!

From the vantage point of the myopic, this forum is separated into two groups: the haters and the apologists. For the reasonable people/members here it's not that simple. Just because one doesn't adapt a herd mentality doesn't make them an apologist. Any decision that upsets the herd is deemed a "mistake." The herd can't see beyond their own noses.

[adc]

Sorry BMW, I can’t buy more BMWs and can’t do ED more frequently than I already have. 6 euro deliveries, last ones in 2015 and 2018. I need another few months or a year before I can get my M2CS, can you please extend the deadline?

I am already beginning to shift - I like the X3 more than the current generation Macan, but find the Cayenne much better than the X5 from a driving perspective. I’m already considering a Cayman GTS as opposed to the M2CS, or used 911’s of different vintages.

Back all the way to the E90 generation, a BMW was basically a no-brainer for me. Excellent driving dynamics, characterful engines, great styling, great utility at not unreasonable prices. BMW has been slowly chipping away at what made them attractive to a buyer like me. I think I’ve had 11 of them, and negotiating on the 12th one for my son currently.

I’m saying this quite dispassionately, there is a very good chance my 2018 M3 may have been the last new BMW I bought. Fewer and fewer reasons to stay each year.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by adc

Sorry BMW, I can’t buy more BMWs and can’t do ED more frequently than I already have. 6 euro deliveries, last ones in 2015 and 2018. I need another few months or a year before I can get my M2CS, can you please extend the deadline?

I am already beginning to shift - I like the X3 more than the current generation Macan, but find the Cayenne much better than the X5 from a driving perspective. I’m already considering a Cayman GTS as opposed to the M2CS, or used 911’s of different vintages.

Back all the way to the E90 generation, a BMW was basically a no-brainer for me. Excellent driving dynamics, characterful engines, great styling, great utility at not unreasonable prices. BMW has been slowly chipping away at what made them attractive to a buyer like me. I think I’ve had 11 of them, and negotiating on the 12th one for my son currently.

I’m saying this quite dispassionately, there is a very good chance my 2018 M3 may have been the last new BMW I bought. Fewer and fewer reasons to stay each year.

The question is can you find the Porsche models you outlined with the equivalent BMW, at BMW's price point new? That is no. The value equation always comes into play or else we can compare a Bentayga to a X5.

Now preowned is where it gets interesting if your primary focus is on the brand and for sheer driving focus. But as we all know, new BMWs or even any brand are not focused on pure driving overall. They need to consider comfort, tech, usability, which all compromises the vehicle in some people's eyes.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

The question is can you find the Porsche models you outlined with the equivalent BMW, at BMW's price point new? That is no. The value equation always comes into play or else we can compare a Bentayga to a X5.

Now preowned is where it gets interesting if your primary focus is on the brand and for sheer driving focus. But as we all know, new BMWs or even any brand are not focused on pure driving overall. They need to consider comfort, tech, usability, which all compromises the vehicle in some people's eyes.

Exactly!