[herwawan]

Originally Posted by TruthOne

How is that possible? Are they taking 15+ percent off? With max MSD? Demo car? Did you put down a bunch of money? What state are you in and what are your taxes? That's literally impossible in California.

Just based on what you're saying the dealer would have to give you 15% off on a 2021 model car which doesn't happen I don't care how good of a negotiator you are. It just can't be done.

I wouldn’t say that I’m a good negotiator, I just understand enough to have a candid conversation with my BMW guy (been a client for 10+ years). My experience has shown that it’s also about helping them move cars while making it worth for me. I didn’t need a new car right at this moment, but the deal made me go for it.

California, max MSD, car from their lot, 10%ish off MSRP plus incentives and a little bit of money down.

[Cyak]

Originally Posted by TruthOne

How is that possible? Are they taking 15+ percent off? With max MSD? Demo car? Did you put down a bunch of money? What state are you in and what are your taxes? That's literally impossible in California.

Just based on what you're saying the dealer would have to give you 15% off on a 2021 model car which doesn't happen I don't care how good of a negotiator you are. It just can't be done.

Just based on what you’re saying you have no idea about the market, how much cars lease for, what is an average msrp % discount before incentives, How dealers mark up MFs. Maybe read up before spouting stuff off??

A mid $500-600 a month payment on a m340i is highly doable with regular incentives and a basic/average msrp discount of 10% and base money factor (MF). Sounds like you’ve been getting ripped off by dealers most your life.


Also: anyone arguing that paying for a leased vehicle, that you have to worry about little to no maintenance, is a short term and half the cost of a financed or purchase vehicle.

Unless your purchasing a used Japanese vehicle for your 16 year old daughter or a high end hyper car, or a hot rod that retains most its value...MOST vehicles have high depreciation. Why the hell would you buy when you can hack leases and taxes lol.

[ThatKrazyPolak]

Originally Posted by Cyak

Just based on what you're saying you have no idea about the market, how much cars lease for, what is an average msrp % discount before incentives, How dealers mark up MFs. Maybe read up before spouting stuff off??

A mid $500-600 a month payment on a m340i is highly doable with regular incentives and a basic/average msrp discount of 10% and base money factor (MF). Sounds like you've been getting ripped off by dealers most your life.


Also: anyone arguing that paying for a leased vehicle, that you have to worry about little to no maintenance, is a short term and half the cost of a financed or purchase vehicle.

Unless your purchasing a used Japanese vehicle for your 16 year old daughter or a high end hyper car, or a hot rod that retains most its value...MOST vehicles have high depreciation. Why the hell would you buy when you can hack leases and taxes lol.

Because a 60K car financed with 20K down would give you around a $500-600 monthly payment. After the car is paid off, assuming moderate mileage and no accidents on a 3 year finance you have 30-40K in your pocket.

If I lease that same car with no money down I'm out of the 20K with nothing to show for it, not even a car I could sell. And guess what? If I use that 30K to buy another 60K car I'm only paying on 30K of a loan, assuming no money down.

That's why you finance. When you finance your able to play with your money. When you lease, you have no leverage.

[TruthOne]

Originally Posted by Cyak

Just based on what you’re saying you have no idea about the market, how much cars lease for, what is an average msrp % discount before incentives, How dealers mark up MFs. Maybe read up before spouting stuff off??

A mid $500-600 a month payment on a m340i is highly doable with regular incentives and a basic/average msrp discount of 10% and base money factor (MF). Sounds like you’ve been getting ripped off by dealers most your life.


Also: anyone arguing that paying for a leased vehicle, that you have to worry about little to no maintenance, is a short term and half the cost of a financed or purchase vehicle.

Unless your purchasing a used Japanese vehicle for your 16 year old daughter or a high end hyper car, or a hot rod that retains most its value...MOST vehicles have high depreciation. Why the hell would you buy when you can hack leases and taxes lol.

Actually no and nice assumption. I'm still waiting how someone can get a 66k -69MSRP in California with. 9.5% sales tax with no money down and no MSD's with only 10% off MSRP and a base money factor with a 58% residual. The lease hacker calculator doesn't even give you a 500-600 payment . So instead of just being a wise ass explain how that's possible.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by herwawan

I wouldn’t say that I’m a good negotiator, I just understand enough to have a candid conversation with my BMW guy (been a client for 10+ years). My experience has shown that it’s also about helping them move cars while making it worth for me. I didn’t need a new car right at this moment, but the deal made me go for it.

California, max MSD, car from their lot, 10%ish off MSRP plus incentives and a little bit of money down.

How much down? Can you share the details?

Curious because I agree with above comments the math doesn't add up to the msrp for the payment you noted
~10% plus incentives
Max msds
58% residual
9.5% CA tax
Lands in the mid-upper 600s

Feel like we are looking at 4k-5kish down?
Did you trade an an existing vehicle with equity? (Vs moving from lease to lease)

[Gdiddy23]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

Because a 60K car financed with 20K down would give you around a $500-600 monthly payment. After the car is paid off, assuming moderate mileage and no accidents on a 3 year finance you have 30-40K in your pocket.

If I lease that same car with no money down I'm out of the 20K with nothing to show for it, not even a car I could sell. And guess what? If I use that 30K to buy another 60K car I'm only paying on 30K of a loan, assuming no money down.

That's why you finance. When you finance your able to play with your money. When you lease, you have no leverage.

Anyone who'd put $20k down on a lease for a 3 series is being taken advantage of plain and simple tho

[TruthOne]

Originally Posted by Gdiddy23

Anyone who'd put $20k down on a lease for a 3 series is being taken advantage of plain and simple tho

He's talking about purchasing and putting 20k down. Where he is wrong is you're not financing a 40k car for 500-600 unless you talking 72-84 months or something . A 40k car with 60 month financing at a 1% APR is $700 a month.

[Cyak]

He could of easily paid the cap cost down lol. Had a friend do the same (obviously it’s not smart) but you can achieve that with 3-4K incentives and a 60-63k msrp m340i.

Obviously a 66k would take some more hacking and slightly higher discount.

I didn’t even see the details for the car posted. I just saw two guys come in here touting wrong facts about leasing vs financing lol.

For a lot of people leasing makes a hell of a lot more sense, especially for taxes.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by herwawan

I wouldn’t say that I’m a good negotiator, I just understand enough to have a candid conversation with my BMW guy (been a client for 10+ years). My experience has shown that it’s also about helping them move cars while making it worth for me. I didn’t need a new car right at this moment, but the deal made me go for it.

California, max MSD, car from their lot, 10%ish off MSRP plus incentives and a little bit of money down.

Originally Posted by xlover

How much down? Can you share the details?

Curious because I agree with above comments the math doesn't add up to the msrp for the payment you noted
~10% plus incentives
Max msds
58% residual
9.5% CA tax
Lands in the mid-upper 600s

Feel like we are looking at 4k-5kish down?
Did you trade an an existing vehicle with equity? (Vs moving from lease to lease)

Please do provide a few details. You should divide by 36 whatever money you put down and add it to your payment. That’s the true monthly payment.

[herwawan]

You guys get heated so fast, it’s crazy. It’s a conversation, no need to make it an argument. In real life when you’re talking with someone, being aggressive doesn’t get you anywhere. Nor does calling people or what they do stupid. Seriously, chill. The whole point of that thread is to support and help the OP who’s trying to figure out how to get out of his lease.

To answer the question though, I’m happy to share more. Everywhere in CA isn’t 9.5% tax. I’m closer to 7% where I am. I did benefit from a discount plus incentives, and I did reduce the cap cost (4), which made sense for my particular situation. By including this in the calculation as stated above, it makes the “real” monthly payment closer to 680.

[Wmzorba09]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

That's assuming you want to be in a new car every three years and investing isn't on the forefront of your mind.

A vehicle is not an investment. I lease my vehicle, and invest my money where there's a return. Seems you understand just as much about investing if as you do leasing.

I've used swap lease successfully on two occasions. Once to assume a lease and the other to transfer a lease. That was several years ago. Using the site and service was easy and quick. BMW Assumptions Dept. was not.

Not sure what the market is like now. You may need to offer a strong incentive to make the payments compelling to a transferee, and offload it fast. Good luck.

[ArchJR]

Originally Posted by herwawan

I wouldn’t say that I’m a good negotiator, I just understand enough to have a candid conversation with my BMW guy (been a client for 10+ years).

It's interesting to read this perspective about loyalty as I am negotiating on the lease of a new BMW. I thought that would factor as I inquired with the same CA at the same dealer where I already leased three BMWs. I asked for 10% off MSRP, base MF, and all applicable incentives in a concise request with my build code, ready to order. They are not interested, telling me it is "zero deal". The best they will do is 5.4%, which is $2,700 more in total.

There goes the notion of loyalty, for me. I am glad that works for some customers and some dealers, but my experience tells me the car is a commodity and to just seek the best price.

[F82Tazmanian]

What a derailed thread.

OP I just lease transferred on swapalease. I will say leasetrader gets less inquires personally.

I would offer a decent incentive because let's be honest, a few months of no car+insurance will net out very quickly. Also be aware that they are severely backed up right now with transfers, so it will easily take 4-5 weeks.

Pm me if you have any specific questions.

[ThatKrazyPolak]

Originally Posted by Wmzorba09

A vehicle is not an investment. I lease my vehicle, and invest my money where there's a return. Seems you understand just as much about investing if as you do leasing.

I've used swap lease successfully on two occasions. Once to assume a lease and the other to transfer a lease. That was several years ago. Using the site and service was easy and quick. BMW Assumptions Dept. was not.

Not sure what the market is like now. You may need to offer a strong incentive to make the payments compelling to a transferee, and offload it fast. Good luck.

I never said a vehicle is an investment. I don't know where you got that from.

[Wmzorba09]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

I never said a vehicle is an investment. I don't know where you got that from.

[IMG][/IMG]


Right here

[ThatKrazyPolak]

Originally Posted by Wmzorba09

[IMG][/IMG]


Right here

What do you want me to acknowledge? That you can own your car? That doesn't make it an investment. But yes, it's an asset that depreciates in value if you want me to be technical. By investment, I meant something that appreciates in value, mutual funds, RE.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by herwawan

You guys get heated so fast, it’s crazy. It’s a conversation, no need to make it an argument. In real life when you’re talking with someone, being aggressive doesn’t get you anywhere. Nor does calling people or what they do stupid. Seriously, chill. The whole point of that thread is to support and help the OP who’s trying to figure out how to get out of his lease.

To answer the question though, I’m happy to share more. Everywhere in CA isn’t 9.5% tax. I’m closer to 7% where I am. I did benefit from a discount plus incentives, and I did reduce the cap cost (4), which made sense for my particular situation. By including this in the calculation as stated above, it makes the “real” monthly payment closer to 680.

Thanks. That makes more sense. Generally speaking on a nothing down lease deal getting a payment close to 1% of MSRP is considered a good deal. Good on you for maxing out the MSDs.

[Wmzorba09]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

What do you want me to acknowledge? That you can own your car? That doesn't make it an investment. But yes, it's an asset that depreciates in value if you want me to be technical. By investment, I meant something that appreciates in value, mutual funds, RE.

"Investment the action or process of investing money for profit or material result"

Maybe use a different/correct term next time

[ThatKrazyPolak]

Originally Posted by Wmzorba09

"Investment the action or process of investing money for profit or material result"

Maybe use a different/correct term next time

I forgot I was speaking to the moderator of Investopedia, my apologies.

[Wmzorba09]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

I forgot I was speaking to the moderator of Investopedia, my apologies.

No worries. Just remember next time. Know your audience.

[Benjamin_Nicholas]

Holy shit, some of you are pedantic

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

Because a 60K car financed with 20K down would give you around a $500-600 monthly payment. After the car is paid off, assuming moderate mileage and no accidents on a 3 year finance you have 30-40K in your pocket.

If I lease that same car with no money down I'm out of the 20K with nothing to show for it, not even a car I could sell. And guess what? If I use that 30K to buy another 60K car I'm only paying on 30K of a loan, assuming no money down.

That's why you finance. When you finance your able to play with your money. When you lease, you have no leverage.

You like to purchase and that is fine. You definitely don't understand finance very well though. For a $60K car you put $20K down, there is opportunity cost for that $20K not being in your brokerage account. You are also taking on full risk for the value of that car at the 3 year mark either high or low. Finally you are also paying sales tax on the full $60K purchase price. You are assuming you cannot sell a leased vehicle or that there is no transfer available, both of which are incorrect.

Now let's take my M5 lease as an example. My 2019 had a sticker of $125K. I received a $21K discount off list for a capitalized cost of $104K. My payment was ~$1275/mo including sales tax with only drive offs which were about $2400. I transferred my M5 to another person with zero out of pocket after 9 months of ownership because of WFH. My total out of pocket was $11,475.

If you purchased the vehicle the math would look like this;

$104K purchase price
$9.1K sales tax
$113.1K OTD
-$20K down payment
$93.1K financed
$1414/mo assuming 3% interest rate and 72 month financing

Going off of Autotrader I can pick up a nice 2019 M5 for about $85K. At the end of 9 months you would have owed $82.3K so about $2700 back in your pocket. Your total out of pocket would be $17,300 by comparison. In addition you would have missed out on about $1500 in growth on your $20K investment assuming approximately 8% return. So the total of your out of pocket and opportunity cost would have been $18,800.

In this standard situation taking the exact same car it is significantly more expensive to purchase than lease and this is very common with BMW finance structures. If we were talking about MB or Porsche they lean much more heavily towards purchase being the better option.

Finally we have to talk about risk. If anything happens during your ownership, accident, major motor repair, etc. you are on the hook for the decrease in value. What do you think the value of that M5 would have been if it were in a minor accident with $10K in damage? 10% less? 20? It is significant. With a lease if the car is worth less than the residual value I hand the keys to BMW and go on my way. If it is worth more I drive down to Carmax or list the car a few month before the termination date and sell it pocketing the difference, again without paying sales tax. I can also still choose to sell the vehicle at any time in the lease period and the payoff decreases just like a standard loan with an amortization schedule. There is literally no downside to a BMW lease.