[amw896]

Originally Posted by chrisny

I agree about the masks but we have the most cases because we have the most testing. I'm sure there are idiots elsewhere refusing to distance and wear masks too.

testing is carried out just as much in Germany and canada. You guys have the most cases because you have the most idiots

[ASAP]

Fundamentally, this is a fun comparo... albeit you have to remember the M340i is a 5 year newer car and can be had at a value price if 1 to 1.5 year old... will it ever feel like the real deal, have the aftermarket support or resale an M car will? That's the decision you need to make on your own... to me, the M car is the real deal and I know many years down the road it will be the one everyone wants if I decide to sell. My recommendation; buy the M car new... buy the M340i after 2 years (you can buy it for pennies in comparo).

I also prefer the warranty and stock power level of the M4.

[FloridaM5]

You guys have managed to turn a pretty cool thread into trash. Nicely done.

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by FloridaM5

You guys have managed to turn a pretty cool thread into trash. Nicely done.

as usual some fucking idiot in the midwest derailed this with his moronic thoughts

[rallybull]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Tacit approval?!? It's a damn car forum dude. Get off of your soapbox. Everything stated here doesn't need to be so politically charged nor politically corrected. You are an example of the problem.

P.S. You expressed disagreement with his position and then began labeling him a "redneck." You cast aspersions while simultaneously losing equanimity.

Are you using a frigging dictionary while typing your responses?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by rallybull

Are you using a frigging dictionary while typing your responses?

No, that's just how I speak.

[subzero05]

Originally Posted by raj914

So based upon anyone's personal experience, racechip or jb4? It's the only two options I'm left with since my DME is locked.

used both, had good experiences with both , but IMO the RaceChip seems to be easier to install and a bit smoother in the power delivery , but to each his/her own

[TorontoGambler]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

How fun that this thread became political. Although I admit it was interesting reading comments and opinions about wearing masks by fellow BMW enthusiast like myself.

After 6 months of this virus being studied by the best minds in the world I've come to this conclusion: Nobody really knows sht fuk about this virus and they all got it wrong. Round and round we go where it ends nobody knows.

I get that point of view based on the messages in the news and from politicians, however... the scientific community has had it right from the beginning, they just aren’t the folks who make the news. In Feb I was lucky enough to get warning of the virus from a family friend who studies disease control and they let us know it would be a pandemic, it was already far to late to stop it and that we all needed to stock up and prep for the worst... the messages we get are from people who want to be re-elected and have portfolios bigger than ours to protect which unfortunately destroys the message.

I didn’t take full advantage of the message, really wish I shorted, but that said I got the kids out of daycare early and stocked up before the hoarding. My point is people on the inside know, making this much more of a tragedy that much of the world didn’t do much with the info.

And I love my not a real M 340i ... wife says I can’t drive in sport while she’s in the car however.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by amw896

testing is carried out just as much in Germany and canada. You guys have the most cases because you have the most idiots

More well spoken factual based knowledge. If only the facts agreed with your highly intellectual argument.

As I said, I agree with doing all we can do. Masks, social distancing, all of it. I wish the answers we've been getting were more trustworthy and more concrete and we knew for sure what actually works. But it doesn't hurt me to wear a mask and most certainly doesn't hurt me to stand 6' away on the rare occasion I go to a store. It does hurt my children to be isolated with little real, in-person social interaction with their friends and family, but we are doing just that because we're told by experts and governments that it's the only way to protect them and everyone else. The whole situation sucks for literally everyone in the entire world, including those choosing to take a "don't tell me what to do" approach.

But stop all the finger pointing and ignorant comments with no factual basis. There are people of all races, creeds, colors, income levels, affluent, not affluent, and even all political parties following the guidelines and there are people from all of the above NOT following the guidelines.

I apologize to the OP and anyone that just wants to talk cars for my small part in continuing this distraction. Everyone else, stick to facts and save the childish name calling and finger pointing for some other forum.

[chenry]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

Isn't 15% considered the average loss of most any rear wheel drive car? Assuming more for all wheel drive but do not how much for X drive.

Didn't necessarily mean to quote you on my reply in that this is more for general consumption now that I found more info....but at the same time didn't want to ignore you quoting me :-)

Thank you....Yes you are correct 100% - I just thought maybe it was lower and wanted to error on the side of caution when looking at other results.

Since posting I read that Race Chips shared that the blue line (and corresponding number on their dynos) is in fact their wheel HP number. Sooo that means according to the video they shared:

• Stock+GTS Black = 388.2 wheel | 460.6 crank (18% drive-train loss)
• GTS+Black+DP = 375.5 wheel | 479.1 crank (27% drive-train loss)

I didn't realize that the drive-train loss would be dynamic (meaning it seems to be different on all the pulls) - but oh well at least I have some numbers now to work with for comparison sake in terms of loss. For now I think I'll just go with the 15% that was mentioned.

Not that big of a deal either way and guess there will never be a definitive 100% correct answer that can universally be applied across the board.

In that most tuners don't publish both crank & wheel this gave a unique opportunity to compare the numbers

[dezzracer]

Makes me wonder what my M3 CS puts down at the wheels. Although the published HP increase over M3 comp is only 10 peak and 38 torque some that have dynoed reported higher on both depending on where the motor is in the RPM curve. All I know is the car rips and snorts. No tune needed.

Anyone out there have M3/M4 CS dyno numbers?

[chenry]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

I know in the car rips and snorts. No tune needed.

For me that's all that matters - it does what you need/want it to do (and in the case of your CS probably far more). Similar feelings to when I put my car on the dyno - sure I was curious but it didn't really matter to me because it was already more than I needed and I was quite content with that :-)

ps-I think we may be getting this thread back on track

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by chenry

For me that's all that matters - it does what you need/want it to do (and in the case of your CS probably far more). Similar feelings to when I put my car on the dyno - sure I was curious but it didn't really matter to me because it was already more than I needed and I was quite content with that :-)

ps-I think we may be getting this thread back on track

Im about to go off topic again lol. How the heck do you excerpt a specific sentence out of a post like you just did when quoting ? Can't seem to figure that out. Thanks.

[chenry]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

Can't seem to figure that out. Thanks.

Happy to help - I quote and then go back in and highlight and delete what I don't want. This quote (the one of yours I am using right now) is a result of the following....hope this helps :-)

[MG20i]

I have been told in recent years that the automatic transmissions are much more efficient than they used to be. As in, the 18%-20% drivetrain losses of 20 years ago are half that now. So, who knows? And how the hell did this happen...

Stock+GTS Black = 388.2 wheel | 460.6 crank (18% drive-train loss)
GTS+Black+DP = 375.5 wheel | 479.1 crank (27% drive-train loss)
???
Adding the downpipe dropped wheel hp but increased crank hp??

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by chenry

For me that's all that matters - it does what you need/want it to do (and in the case of your CS probably far more). Similar feelings to when I put my car on the dyno - sure I was curious but it didn't really matter to me because it was already more than I needed and I was quite content with that :-)

ps-I think we may be getting this thread back on track

Chenry, I would love to take your car for a joy ride lol, when do plan on coming to South Florida, anytime soon?

[chenry]

Originally Posted by MG20i

I have been told in recent years that the automatic transmissions are much more efficient than they used to be. As in, the 18%-20% drivetrain losses of 20 years ago are half that now. So, who knows? And how the hell did this happen...

Stock+GTS Black = 388.2 wheel | 460.6 crank (18% drive-train loss)
GTS+Black+DP = 375.5 wheel | 479.1 crank (27% drive-train loss)
???
Adding the downpipe dropped wheel hp but increased crank hp??

I have no idea I couldn't make sense of that either - I think it may be an editing issue with their video (where they reversed the results) - that is the only thing that makes sense to me. **Edit** no that doesn't make sense because the calculated crank number is higher it's the actual WHP number that is lower....okay so I'm clueless.

That said, just to be clear for anyone that is wondering...I'll share here where I saw those numbers. I do not profess to be the expert on these things and was simply reviewing the video to help me with my knowledge quest regarding drivetrain loss with the M340 (thought it was nice they posted crank and wheel). I have no opinion relative to RaceChip :-)

Being 100% objective here and only sharing what RaceChip has posted in their video.

ps- if someone sees something different in these screen shots, please let me know and I will quickly update - I don't want to be the source of erroneous information

[chenry]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Chenry, I would love to take your car for a joy ride lol, when do plan on coming to South Florida, anytime soon?

HA - I would gladly hand you the keys :-) Drop me a line next time you are in SoCal!

[nbennettksu]

Originally Posted by chrisny

I agree about the masks but we have the most cases because we have the most testing. I'm sure there are idiots elsewhere refusing to distance and wear masks too. 😉

You clearly don't get it. The most testing? Give me a break; do you think Germany and Italy just stopped testing? I'm glad EU has closed its doors on us, good for them.

[n55co]

Originally Posted by MG20i

I have been told in recent years that the automatic transmissions are much more efficient than they used to be. As in, the 18%-20% drivetrain losses of 20 years ago are half that now. So, who knows? And how the hell did this happen...

Stock+GTS Black = 388.2 wheel | 460.6 crank (18% drive-train loss)
GTS+Black+DP = 375.5 wheel | 479.1 crank (27% drive-train loss)
???
Adding the downpipe dropped wheel hp but increased crank hp??

Originally Posted by chenry

I have no idea I couldn't make sense of that either - I think it may be an editing issue with their video (where they reversed the results) - that is the only thing that makes sense to me. **Edit** no that doesn't make sense because the calculated crank number is higher it's the actual WHP number that is lower....okay so I'm clueless.

That said, just to be clear for anyone that is wondering...I'll share here where I saw those numbers. I do not profess to be the expert on these things and was simply reviewing the video to help me with my knowledge quest regarding drivetrain loss with the M340 (thought it was nice they posted crank and wheel). I have no opinion relative to RaceChip :-)

Being 100% objective here and only sharing what RaceChip has posted in their video.

ps- if someone sees something different in these screen shots, please let me know and I will quickly update - I don't want to be the source of erroneous information

Wheel HP is a result of Engine HP - drivetrain loss.

Drivetrain loss depends on several factors like gearbox/drivetrain temperature, gearbox, wheel temperature, tire size, how the car is fixed/strapped on the dyno etc.
E.g if you do 10 runs back to back (with the same car) drivetrain loss is getting bigger (due to gearbox/drivetrain temperature, wheel temperature, parts expanding etc.) which results in lower wheel HP numbers.
Therefore it is important, if you want to get accurate and
comparable results, to measure drivetrain loss after each power run (which is the case on all MAHA dynos)
Thats the only way to get accurate, comparable and reproducible results.

Engine HP = Red line
Engine NM = Orange line
Wheel HP = Blue line
drivetrain loss = Green line

Wheel HP + drivetrain loss = uncorrected Engine HP

[MG20i]

Originally Posted by n55co

Wheel HP is a result of Engine HP - drivetrain loss.

Drivetrain loss depends on several factors like gearbox/drivetrain temperature, gearbox, wheel temperature, tire size, how the car is fixed/strapped on the dyno etc.
E.g if you do 10 runs back to back (with the same car) drivetrain loss is getting bigger (due to gearbox/drivetrain temperature, wheel temperature, parts expanding etc.) which results in lower wheel HP numbers.
Therefore it is important, if you want to get accurate and
comparable results, to measure drivetrain loss after each power run (which is the case on all MAHA dynos)
Thats the only way to get accurate, comparable and reproducible results.

Engine HP = Red line
Engine NM = Orange line
Wheel HP = Blue line
drivetrain loss = Green line

Wheel HP + drivetrain loss = uncorrected Engine HP

All true enough. However I think those figures for drivetrain loss are too high. And someone needs to investigate how adding the downpipe created such a horrible 27% drivetrain loss number. Doesn't matter to me what the estimated crank hp number is. If it puts less power to the pavement then what is the point?

[n55co]

Originally Posted by MG20i

All true enough. However I think those figures for drivetrain loss are too high. And someone needs to investigate how adding the downpipe created such a horrible 27% drivetrain loss number. Doesn't matter to me what the estimated crank hp number is. If it puts less power to the pavement then what is the point?

it is the 4WD version -> higher drivetrain loss.
Actually crank HP matters more than wheel hp numbers (if you are looking at the pure performance of the engine)
Wheel hp numbers are not static, even on the same car, same day etc.
(back to back runs will increase drivetrain loss and therefore reduce wheel hp)

If you have 2 identical cars with exactly the same crank HP but one is rolling on 22inch 300/35 tires (just an extreme example), while the other one is running on 19inch 225/35
Wheel HP will be different, while engine HP is acutally the same.

Another example, if you measure the exact same car on 21inch (e.g summer tires) and 19 inch (winter tires), wheel HP will be different.
Thats the reason, why measuring drivetrain loss is important.

(wheel hp can also vary, depending on how the car is strapped down on the dyno)