Forum for the entire range of BMW electric vehicles
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW i4 Forum - i430, i440 (G26) EV Forum BMW i4 Forum - M50, eDrive40, eDrive35 (G26) EV Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-06-2020, 05:06 PM   #67
Sportstick
Major General
Sportstick's Avatar
4606
Rep
5,980
Posts

Drives: '15 228i and '24 X3 sDrive30i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southwest USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...42923-9999.pdf

LOL - yep, legacy manufacturers don't have problems similar to Tesla's - they're actually far worse at times.

BMW HPFP, anyone?

How about major engine component failure - BMW has that too, which led to the above-mentioned warranty extension.

Or our Q5 TDi's emissions (non-) control system...

It's beyond disingenuous to suggest that legacy mfrs. don't have serious issues from time to time.

But some people are only interested in denigrating brands they don't like - not in the truth of the larger situation.

Given that the 3-series is the most-traded luxury model on the Model 3, it's ironic that a 3-series owner would suggest that those former owners don't know automotive excellence when they see it....
I guess after being done, we are both back.

I don't know what is getting in the way of accurately understanding my posts, so, let's be clear....

I actually agreed in my prior post that all manufacturers have quality issues, legacy or not. The point being missed is that problems are not all equivalent in type or frequency per program. A vehicle is sufficiently complex in design, development, and assembly, that defects will be present as long as humans are their creators Some that are complex need detailed investigation and resolution, such as HPFP failure root cause analysis.

But, some are so basic and simplistic, they deserve a forehead slap and being considered as absurd. That is why these bizarre events of bumpers falling off in rain, wood pieces in a power unit, sunroofs blowing off get such coverage. They are an inexcusable embarrassment. Analogy: If an adult fails a question on trigonometry, they go back and learn what they did wrong to prevent recurrence. If another adult cannot add 2+2 to get 4, the excuses evaporate. The two individuals were simply operating at totally different levels. The ridiculous types of failures we've seen accumulate - not just one - fall into that latter category, evidencing that they were not ready for prime time. In summary, the more complex, subtle, intricate the problem, the more understandable is its' occurrence. The more basic, simple, fundamental, the more unacceptable. Tesla seems to specialize in the latter, while the legacy brands are occasionally afflicted by the former.

Dislike the brand? The same brand to which I gave $1000 for a year until they started demonstrating they fell below the most minimal quality expectations with the pathetic products they displayed in their own showroom? I don't dislike the brand. I simply don't trust them any more based on their own performance. If they improve for a meaningful duration, trust can be regained. Model Y is not helping. My 3 Series has been perfect for three years, and side by side with any Tesla I've ever seen, the quality differences are obvious.

As to the market trading large volume of 3 Series, I am not surprised. I hold no illusions about current BMW owners. There was a time when the brand was lesser known and bought for the driving experience. In more recent decades, it became, sadly, a status symbol, something "cool", trendy, to show-off. I am not at all surprised that a mass of 3 Series buyers (probably mostly leasing) abandoned BMW for the newest shiny object or to go faster. Their willingness to overlook the array of obvious Tesla quality problems speaks to what motivated them to switch. Body panels don't fit? That's OK. Seals not aligned against the glass? What's a seal? Headline wrinkled and drooping? No problem. It looks cool, goes fast, is the newest thing around, and (most absurdly as noted on BMW forums), new and cool cars help with finding "partners". All sorts of reasons to switch that have no relationship to the alleged "excellence" of the total car that Tesla yearns to achieve one day beyond than their already excellent powertrain.

Never conflate volume with quality. Examples in our nation's buying patterns make clear the two are quite distinct entities.

Another round?
__________________
2015 228i 6MT/Track Handling/Tech/Cold/Premium/Lighting/Driver Assistance/KCDesign Strut Brace/M2 LCAs/Rogue SSK/BBS SR/PS4S/ER Chargepipe/AA Intercooler/Dinan Shockware/MPerformance Spoiler/Black Grilles/Xpel Ultimate PPF & Prime XR+ Tint/Adam's Ceramic/no CDV
2024 X3 sDrive30i/MSport/Premium/Dynamic Handling/Shadowline/Parking/Xpel Prime XR Plus/Weathertech Cargo Liner
Appreciate 2
stein_325i25051.00
      10-06-2020, 05:38 PM   #68
ZCD1
Lieutenant
ZCD1's Avatar
United_States
204
Rep
406
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MI/CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post

Another round?
OK, NOW I understand: You purport to know more about what's important to buyers than the buyers themselves, and because you know the "secret BMW handshake" and all the recent BMW buyers don't, you're more discerning, as well.

Your arrogance is breathtaking, as is your obstinance.

Tesla's issues are very much those of a company new to mass automobile manufacturing. But as has been pointed out, the iPhone's keyboard was inferior to that on a Blackberry. It didn't matter, though, that Blackberry had continually refined and improved their keyboard - the iPhone rendered the rest of the BB instantly obsolete.

BMW (and the German auto industry in general) was exceptionally late in recognizing that EVs would do to them as the iPhone did to the Blackberry. BMW even lost a senior official after he (much too recently) publicly questioned EVs' relevance.

The issues you've mentioned (which are, again, those same few that have been brought up ad nauseum on every non-Tesla forum for years, despite many of them being isolated incidents) do not negate the disruptiveness of Tesla's technologies nor have they caused anything more than minor blips in its growth.

I indeed hope that the i4 proves more competitive overall than Taycan, E-Tron and i-Pace.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2020, 06:27 PM   #69
Sportstick
Major General
Sportstick's Avatar
4606
Rep
5,980
Posts

Drives: '15 228i and '24 X3 sDrive30i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southwest USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
OK, NOW I understand: You purport to know more about what's important to buyers than the buyers themselves, and because you know the "secret BMW handshake" and all the recent BMW buyers don't, you're more discerning, as well.

Your arrogance is breathtaking, as is your obstinance.

Tesla's issues are very much those of a company new to mass automobile manufacturing. But as has been pointed out, the iPhone's keyboard was inferior to that on a Blackberry. It didn't matter, though, that Blackberry had continually refined and improved their keyboard - the iPhone rendered the rest of the BB instantly obsolete.

BMW (and the German auto industry in general) was exceptionally late in recognizing that EVs would do to them as the iPhone did to the Blackberry. BMW even lost a senior official after he (much too recently) publicly questioned EVs' relevance.

The issues you've mentioned (which are, again, those same few that have been brought up ad nauseum on every non-Tesla forum for years, despite many of them being isolated incidents) do not negate the disruptiveness of Tesla's technologies nor have they caused anything more than minor blips in its growth.

I indeed hope that the i4 proves more competitive overall than Taycan, E-Tron and i-Pace.
Actually, you still don't understand.

Nowhere is your allegation of me knowing more about the defecting BMW buyers then they do about themselves written nor suggested. What is clear is that their own motivations, of which they are likely keenly aware, are susceptible to being attracted to a variety of appeals, with quality not most highly valued among them. They are a different group than BMW buyers of a generation earlier. The problem seems to be that you apparently consider those motives less helpful to your attempt to elevate a mediocre product to delusions of "excellence".

Somehow, your tangent tantrum about disruption, foresight, leading the EV revolution, and sales growth (all true, but irrelevant to this specific topic) is supposed to offset their inability to weld two body panels together so that they fit, along with all the other amateur failings Elon could have prevented with a little less hubris. Had he had more insight, he would have either acquired actual expertise (not at one time, a head body engineer with no prior automotive experience) or partnered with an outsourced company that could have wrapped a competent vehicle around his excellent powertrain. No one questions the leading edge role in EVs that Tesla has played. The issues you attempt to minimize appear to have been sufficient to plummet Tesla to the bottom of the industry. According to whom? Their own owners, in sufficient large sample size to make your anecdotes truly irrelevant! At least those owners could be honest enough to realize the trade-offs they accepted.

Amazing to me how you cannot acknowledge that you enjoy your car because either, you got one of the better ones with their attempts to improve (congratulations), or because such quality issues are not that important to you. The reality of the vast number of poorly built ones is inescapable. Denying that is delusional.
__________________
2015 228i 6MT/Track Handling/Tech/Cold/Premium/Lighting/Driver Assistance/KCDesign Strut Brace/M2 LCAs/Rogue SSK/BBS SR/PS4S/ER Chargepipe/AA Intercooler/Dinan Shockware/MPerformance Spoiler/Black Grilles/Xpel Ultimate PPF & Prime XR+ Tint/Adam's Ceramic/no CDV
2024 X3 sDrive30i/MSport/Premium/Dynamic Handling/Shadowline/Parking/Xpel Prime XR Plus/Weathertech Cargo Liner

Last edited by Sportstick; 10-06-2020 at 06:32 PM..
Appreciate 1
      10-06-2020, 08:04 PM   #70
ZCD1
Lieutenant
ZCD1's Avatar
United_States
204
Rep
406
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MI/CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
The reality...
The reality is that the vast, vast majority of the Model 3s Tesla has built are like mine, with no or few issues. Suggesting otherwise is indeed delusional.

There's no need for the vast majority of owners to ignore issues because they haven't had isssues.

But you go ahead and continue tilting at windmills...
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2020, 08:41 PM   #71
Sportstick
Major General
Sportstick's Avatar
4606
Rep
5,980
Posts

Drives: '15 228i and '24 X3 sDrive30i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southwest USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
The reality is that the vast, vast majority of the Model 3s Tesla has built are like mine, with no or few issues. Suggesting otherwise is indeed delusional.

There's no need for the vast majority of owners to ignore issues because they haven't had isssues.

But you go ahead and continue tilting at windmills...
A good bit of this thread has been "I think/you think", such as that comment. Here (again) is real, robust, reliable large sample data which the entire industry trusts and uses, and which surpasses any personal anecdotes or beliefs about what is happening. Tesla has 2.5 problems per car in the first three months, essentially assembled condition at delivery...worst in industry. The issue is not another wisecrack about me having a Dodge. The issue is the reality of Tesla's position. Why would anyone who understands research "downplay" methodologically sound owner-reported data?





Attached Images
 
__________________
2015 228i 6MT/Track Handling/Tech/Cold/Premium/Lighting/Driver Assistance/KCDesign Strut Brace/M2 LCAs/Rogue SSK/BBS SR/PS4S/ER Chargepipe/AA Intercooler/Dinan Shockware/MPerformance Spoiler/Black Grilles/Xpel Ultimate PPF & Prime XR+ Tint/Adam's Ceramic/no CDV
2024 X3 sDrive30i/MSport/Premium/Dynamic Handling/Shadowline/Parking/Xpel Prime XR Plus/Weathertech Cargo Liner
Appreciate 1
      10-06-2020, 09:18 PM   #72
ZCD1
Lieutenant
ZCD1's Avatar
United_States
204
Rep
406
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MI/CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
...methodologically sound owner-reported data?
The fact that you consider JD Power to be "methodologically sound" says volumes...
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2020, 09:26 PM   #73
Sportstick
Major General
Sportstick's Avatar
4606
Rep
5,980
Posts

Drives: '15 228i and '24 X3 sDrive30i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southwest USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
The fact that you consider JD Power to be "methodologically sound" says volumes...
It should. I’m a market researcher.
What is your specific criticism of their methodology?
Without being too invasive, what area do you work in?
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2020, 07:22 AM   #74
ZCD1
Lieutenant
ZCD1's Avatar
United_States
204
Rep
406
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MI/CA

iTrader: (0)

JD Power’s IQS survey dings a car equally for an infotainment system that doesn’t operate the way a customer expects it to as it does for a complete engine failure, for example.

With that said, I’m done with this discussion, but I’ll leave you with this:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...mparison-test/

(cue the cries of “But the panel gaps!!!”)
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2020, 08:56 AM   #75
Sportstick
Major General
Sportstick's Avatar
4606
Rep
5,980
Posts

Drives: '15 228i and '24 X3 sDrive30i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southwest USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
JD Power’s IQS survey dings a car equally for an infotainment system that doesn’t operate the way a customer expects it to as it does for a complete engine failure, for example.

With that said, I’m done with this discussion, but I’ll leave you with this:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...mparison-test/

(cue the cries of “But the panel gaps!!!”)
Yes, and you were done last time as well, but "Seagull Syndrome" set in. Your statement of what JDP reports is true but is a misunderstanding of the purpose of the survey. JDP doesn't "ding" anyone. The owners report what they consider to be a problem. I'm sure you don't possibly believe it is up to you to assign priorities of problems for the rest of the marketplace. JDP collects and reports consumer data. If you believe these items should not cross the threshold to be considered as problems, your quarrel is with the owner body.

If a spaceshot intended to land on Mars and completely missed the planet by a mile or by a lightyear, the mission still failed and there is still the problem of not having landed. If a consumer indicates they have a problem, whether you consider it minor or major...then, they have a problem. JDP reports that assessment and it clearly does discriminate among brands. The global auto industry trusts and relies on this data, undeterred by your skepticism.

You should actually be a fan of JDP as they more closely subscribe to your theory of "quality", that it's not just a matter of a failure but also includes measures of excellence in that in assesses design problems.

I've seen that article comparing carefully prepped and "massaged" cars from the PR fleet, and my admiration for Genesis is growing every day, as well as for that entire company. Genesis is building high quality, high performing vehicles certainly worth consideration vs. BMW. Tesla is only doing half of that task, based on the reports of actual owners. If, as is true for MT in their review, "crushing" a 0-60 run is your top priority (as I repeatedly suggested is motivating many Tesla buyers), then by all means, go for it. Same for those seeking novelty and new status. Just don't expect that, in-between stoplight derbies, that the rest of the car will be anywhere near equivalent in overall quality. Simple concept. Now done?
__________________
2015 228i 6MT/Track Handling/Tech/Cold/Premium/Lighting/Driver Assistance/KCDesign Strut Brace/M2 LCAs/Rogue SSK/BBS SR/PS4S/ER Chargepipe/AA Intercooler/Dinan Shockware/MPerformance Spoiler/Black Grilles/Xpel Ultimate PPF & Prime XR+ Tint/Adam's Ceramic/no CDV
2024 X3 sDrive30i/MSport/Premium/Dynamic Handling/Shadowline/Parking/Xpel Prime XR Plus/Weathertech Cargo Liner

Last edited by Sportstick; 10-07-2020 at 11:42 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2020, 09:22 AM   #76
USA-RET
Captain
USA-RET's Avatar
605
Rep
970
Posts

Drives: Estoril Blue M240i
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SW Florida

iTrader: (0)

FWIW, I was mailed the JD Power survey form when I took delivery of my M240i. It is a voluminous survey that does ask many questions regarding ease of use and likes and dislike questions. I gave my 2'er sterling scores as it met or exceeded my expectations nearly every category.

In all honesty, if I had to complete this survey on a Model 3 (which I haven not driven nor owned), I would certainly have some negatives to say about the key less operation and the single information screen. I can say this just by watching the videos and reviews I've seen.

Making a change from a key fob to a CC sized plastic that has to be held against the car to open is not to my liking. I have a cell phone but do not use it except for emergencies, so it is turned off and is rarely on my person. Walking to the car (like I can with my Mini or BMW and touch the door handle to enjoy key-less entry entry due to the small fob in my pocket), the model 3 requires I carry my cell phone (on) to enjoy that same feature or have to pull out the CC sized passkey and hold it to the car (just like pulling out out the fob and pressing the button (for a non-keyless entry equipped vehicle) to open the door or inserting a physical key into a lock.

The single screen is another issue I will likely have issues with. Many will agree that having to go to the "Tablet" for nearly ever function in the car is something that takes some getting accustom to. I don't mind a big screen for information but will initially miss some of the "Simple Simon" buttons and dials we now have in our more traditional cars. Certainly, over time, a person will adjust, however, getting the JD Power survey so early in the car's life, will certainly generate many negative comments.

You can bet that everywhere on that survey where I can "ding" Tesla, on these "features" I would. Likely pushing it further down the J.D. Power owner satisfaction survey.

That being said, I personally like the Model 3, and think Tesla did amazing things in the short time they have been making cars. I will, unless the i4 or another EV meets or exceeds the Model 3 range and other advantages (like their battery technology and OTA updates), buy one. I will have to learn adjust to the things I don't like about it or look to another manufacturer.
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2020, 04:49 PM   #77
SteveinArizona
Brigadier General
United_States
3086
Rep
4,210
Posts

Drives: BMW 530e
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Greater Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

I am late joining this discussion. My view is that I hope BMW can't compete with Tesla and Polestar. I want great competition which will increase the speed and quality of the cars. If BMW can do better, that would be great. But simply to compete...no thanks.
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2020, 08:48 AM   #78
USA-RET
Captain
USA-RET's Avatar
605
Rep
970
Posts

Drives: Estoril Blue M240i
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SW Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
I am late joining this discussion. My view is that I hope BMW can't compete with Tesla and Polestar. I want great competition which will increase the speed and quality of the cars. If BMW can do better, that would be great. But simply to compete...no thanks.
Currently, most of the contenders can't even match a Tesla (and I'm not talking assembly quality), a reason why each month the car mags headline "This could be a Tesla killer" (and they are not). Sales numbers are pretty obvious.

https://cleantechnica.com/tesla-sales/

I would be happy if the i4 can match (or come close to) Tesla's Model 3 range, and battery longevity while maintaining the BMW build quality. Which maybe was your point.
Appreciate 2
Sportstick4605.50
///M TOWN13117.00
      10-12-2020, 09:10 AM   #79
Sportstick
Major General
Sportstick's Avatar
4606
Rep
5,980
Posts

Drives: '15 228i and '24 X3 sDrive30i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southwest USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
Currently, most of the contenders can't even match a Tesla (and I'm not talking assembly quality), a reason why each month the car mags headline "This could be a Tesla killer" (and they are not). Sales numbers are pretty obvious.

https://cleantechnica.com/tesla-sales/

I would be happy if the i4 can match (or come close to) Tesla's Model 3 range, and battery longevity while maintaining the BMW build quality. Which maybe was your point.
I think we might be intending to say the same idea, but for the semantics. One can compete poorly with an inferior product, compete with perhaps an acceptable sales outcome with a parity product, or compete successfully with a superior product. Sports team analogies are just waiting to be made! I would imagine we're all hoping for superior but affordable, but some could accept parity for the EV part because we're expecting superiority for the rest of the car.
__________________
2015 228i 6MT/Track Handling/Tech/Cold/Premium/Lighting/Driver Assistance/KCDesign Strut Brace/M2 LCAs/Rogue SSK/BBS SR/PS4S/ER Chargepipe/AA Intercooler/Dinan Shockware/MPerformance Spoiler/Black Grilles/Xpel Ultimate PPF & Prime XR+ Tint/Adam's Ceramic/no CDV
2024 X3 sDrive30i/MSport/Premium/Dynamic Handling/Shadowline/Parking/Xpel Prime XR Plus/Weathertech Cargo Liner
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2020, 02:22 PM   #80
SteveinArizona
Brigadier General
United_States
3086
Rep
4,210
Posts

Drives: BMW 530e
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Greater Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
Currently, most of the contenders can't even match a Tesla (and I'm not talking assembly quality), a reason why each month the car mags headline "This could be a Tesla killer" (and they are not). Sales numbers are pretty obvious.

https://cleantechnica.com/tesla-sales/

I would be happy if the i4 can match (or come close to) Tesla's Model 3 range, and battery longevity while maintaining the BMW build quality. Which maybe was your point.
Yes. One way or another I want the BMW to be a better vehicle.
Appreciate 0
      10-13-2020, 04:31 PM   #81
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
5305
Rep
5,824
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

You are going to love the i4. Especially the M Version.
It's the litmus test for the brand. Can BMW M sustain a new model which discards the ethos of the BMW M brand? By driving high performance through electricity?
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 1
mlello16.50
      10-14-2020, 10:55 AM   #82
uuni
First Lieutenant
Ethiopia
72
Rep
336
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Space

iTrader: (0)

Its so funny the real question is can Tesla compete with germans. As the germans build etc quality is par none and teslas is shitty.
Appreciate 1
JasonDot579.50
      10-14-2020, 01:02 PM   #83
Sportstick
Major General
Sportstick's Avatar
4606
Rep
5,980
Posts

Drives: '15 228i and '24 X3 sDrive30i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southwest USA

iTrader: (0)

https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/14/...dan-base-price

This is getting interesting. But, let's give them a year of production to see how competent they are. We certainly don't want another Tesla experience.
__________________
2015 228i 6MT/Track Handling/Tech/Cold/Premium/Lighting/Driver Assistance/KCDesign Strut Brace/M2 LCAs/Rogue SSK/BBS SR/PS4S/ER Chargepipe/AA Intercooler/Dinan Shockware/MPerformance Spoiler/Black Grilles/Xpel Ultimate PPF & Prime XR+ Tint/Adam's Ceramic/no CDV
2024 X3 sDrive30i/MSport/Premium/Dynamic Handling/Shadowline/Parking/Xpel Prime XR Plus/Weathertech Cargo Liner
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2020, 03:19 PM   #84
VetteGuy
Captain
846
Rep
639
Posts

Drives: Arctic Race Blue M440iX
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: St. Louis, MO. USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/14/...dan-base-price

This is getting interesting. But, let's give them a year of production to see how competent they are. We certainly don't want another Tesla experience.
I agree with the wait and see, but I have to admit, everything I’ve read about Lucid so far indicates that they may be a force in the luxury EV business.

It appears they’ve taken a more measured approach than Musk allowed and they’ve recruited some very top notch people. Their experience supplying batteries to the FIA Formula E Has been pretty cool. We’ll have to see what kind of product rolls out of their new ground up factory in the Arizona desert.
Appreciate 1
Sportstick4605.50
      10-15-2020, 10:26 AM   #85
Sportstick
Major General
Sportstick's Avatar
4606
Rep
5,980
Posts

Drives: '15 228i and '24 X3 sDrive30i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southwest USA

iTrader: (0)

https://www.magna.com/company/newsro...e-fisker-ocean

This is what an insightful leader of a novice company does to ensure a higher quality design and manufacture of a launch vehicle. Magna also assembles some 5 Series for BMW.
__________________
2015 228i 6MT/Track Handling/Tech/Cold/Premium/Lighting/Driver Assistance/KCDesign Strut Brace/M2 LCAs/Rogue SSK/BBS SR/PS4S/ER Chargepipe/AA Intercooler/Dinan Shockware/MPerformance Spoiler/Black Grilles/Xpel Ultimate PPF & Prime XR+ Tint/Adam's Ceramic/no CDV
2024 X3 sDrive30i/MSport/Premium/Dynamic Handling/Shadowline/Parking/Xpel Prime XR Plus/Weathertech Cargo Liner
Appreciate 0
      10-15-2020, 11:21 AM   #86
TheDudeMan
First Lieutenant
TheDudeMan's Avatar
Ukraine
252
Rep
380
Posts

Drives: 20' 330i & RX 350
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
A good bit of this thread has been "I think/you think", such as that comment. Here (again) is real, robust, reliable large sample data which the entire industry trusts and uses, and which surpasses any personal anecdotes or beliefs about what is happening. Tesla has 2.5 problems per car in the first three months, essentially assembled condition at delivery...worst in industry. The issue is not another wisecrack about me having a Dodge. The issue is the reality of Tesla's position. Why would anyone who understands research "downplay" methodologically sound owner-reported data?



Haha - Pure facts, I love it. Here is some more fuel to the fire. Every Tesla TFL has owned has been plagued with problems - all well documented in their videos.



No taking away that Tesla powertrains are light years ahead, and thus I would still consider one, but sometimes I think going used is the way to go - let the first owner deal with all the issues and depreciation.

Also, to anyone being triggered, this is not because we don't support Tesla or want them to fail - stop getting butthurt that the overall quality sucks and is well document. So well so that you would lose in court if we were on trial. We need Tesla to help push the other manufacturers to produce EV's that are competitive in charge times, infrastructure, and range.
Appreciate 0
      10-15-2020, 02:02 PM   #87
yousefnjr
salty cowboys fan
yousefnjr's Avatar
6112
Rep
3,390
Posts

Drives: ‘06 Z4MR, ‘20 X7, ‘22 M4x
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

I'm not quite sure how I feel about the i4 just yet. I realize it's early and not many details have been revealed, but I am less excited than I was previously. With the standard 3/4 series already weighing in close to 4000 lbs, and the higher target for driving range, I have to imagine this car will tip the scales at 4800+ lbs in dual motor spec. That would be close to 2000 lbs heavier than the i3 and makes me a very sad boy.

I love my i3S dearly, and place it as my 2nd favorite BMW I've owned. I think it fits it's designed purpose (affordable, fun commuter) exceptionally well and was thoughtfully developed. More than enough range to get around town, room for the kids and our toys, and it drives like the small RWD bimmers of the past. It fits anywhere and can make a U-turn like a bicycle. The connected services are great (which I assume will carry over to the i4). I can be out skating with my kids, and turn the AC on using my watch so we have a chilled cabin to return to. I wish our $90k X7 could do that...

It seems to me that the i4 will give a lot of this up. I doubt the sedan shape will be able to carry the kids' scooters/skateboards. I'm sure it'll be plenty powerful, but it won't be quite as nimble or turn as tightly. For long road trips we'd be taking the X7 anyway, so the extra range to me just means extra unused batteries/weight/cost. I assume it'll be like a fast 3/4 series, which tbh already exists in several flavors.

I'm keeping an open mind and am still interested, and I hope the i4 is awesome, but it's a bummer to have it be such a departure from a great little car. The i3 will retire as a sweet little CFRP footnote in BMW history
__________________
she’s home! '22 M4 Comp xDrive
Appreciate 0
      10-15-2020, 02:29 PM   #88
yousefnjr
salty cowboys fan
yousefnjr's Avatar
6112
Rep
3,390
Posts

Drives: ‘06 Z4MR, ‘20 X7, ‘22 M4x
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post

...

As to making a choice, even from a static point of view, the choice was quite clear when I was in the market. Find me a BMW with hoods, fenders, and doors that obviously don't align, paint drip mark on a rear quarter panel, wrinkled headliner, rubber seals that don't align with the body. Those are not the kinds of issues established OEMs face with new launches. That is assembly 101, and they clearly failed.

...
Heh, my Z4M and my dad's E90 both have panel gap issues. At least I can say mine was assembled by Bob in South Carolina, he has no such excuse although my German-assembled S54 did try to eat itself and explode...

Looking at that JD Power chart -- if I can still do math, that means on avg people are seeing 1.7 issues per BMW, and 2.5 per Tesla. In my book that's about a couple each, and sounds about right
__________________
she’s home! '22 M4 Comp xDrive
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST