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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 81 31.89%
Trump Trump-umphant. 87 34.25%
Inclusive 18 7.09%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 74 29.13%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 254. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-08-2019, 07:10 AM   #1937
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
^
I predict charges will be dropped against Flynn and he will sue like a GOAT.

This can't be good.
Yovanovitch perjured herself? What would Mueller do...
I mean, Weissman.

Yovanovitch "did" or Yovanovitch "might have"?
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      11-08-2019, 07:44 AM   #1938
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^
Looks like, did. Denied some sort of contact via email and now uncovered records show she infact did communicate with the person in question. Saw the story on The Hill or Fox, fyi.
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      11-08-2019, 08:03 AM   #1939
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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Yovanovitch "did" or Yovanovitch "might have"?
Here's the meat in question:

"She testified explicitly that she did not reply to Carey's follow-up email concerning whom she should contact at the State Department"

And then:

"Emails showed that in fact, Yovanovitch had responded to Carey's initial Aug. 14 email, writing that she "would love to reconnect and look forward to chatting with you."

I'm not tracking all this except from afar, so I'm in the dark as to who are what this pertains to, but it appears she lied.
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      11-08-2019, 08:14 AM   #1940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
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Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
when you tell everyone you are a "whistleblower" with "first-hand knowledge", but all you did was read a story in the paper
Did you read the previous few pages? His testimony was about the info he received from Morrison about Sondland. The article was after-the-fact speculation.

In case building, you use corroborating testimony to bolster the case. Taylor's corroborating evidence bolster's the idea that Sondland knew that a quid pro quo was in place. Fittingly, Sondland's released testimony corroborates with Taylor's testimony:



Sondland DID know there was a quid pro quo, and Morrison accurately relayed that info to Taylor who accurately testified to it. Taylor only speculated on the reason for the quid pro quo through the NYT article. Since the reason does not entirely determine the legality of the quid pro quo, Taylor's speculation is moot. He could speculate that it was to appease the aliens from mars, and that doesn't negate quid pro quo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
when you tell everyone you are a "whistleblower" with "first-hand knowledge", but all you did was read a story in the paper
Did you read the previous few pages? His testimony was about the info he received from Morrison about Sondland. The article was after-the-fact speculation.

In case building, you use corroborating testimony to bolster the case. Taylor's corroborating evidence bolster's the idea that Sondland knew that a quid pro quo was in place. Fittingly, Sondland's released testimony corroborates with Taylor's testimony:



Sondland DID know there was a quid pro quo, and Morrison accurately relayed that info to Taylor who accurately testified to it. Taylor only speculated on the reason for the quid pro quo through the NYT article. Since the reason does not entirely determine the legality of the quid pro quo, Taylor's speculation is moot. He could speculate that it was to appease the aliens from mars, and that doesn't negate quid pro quo.
Wow, that's a whole lot of he said/she said, but the NYT and this person told me, and that person said...
The article is immaterial. He was asked to speculate. Sondland's and Taylor's testimony now corroborate with each other. That's the point. Taylor's account alone isn't enough, but he reported his experience. He got the message from Morrison. Was he supposed to not mention it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
when you tell everyone you are a "whistleblower" with "first-hand knowledge", but all you did was read a story in the paper
Did you read the previous few pages? His testimony was about the info he received from Morrison about Sondland. The article was after-the-fact speculation.

In case building, you use corroborating testimony to bolster the case. Taylor's corroborating evidence bolster's the idea that Sondland knew that a quid pro quo was in place. Fittingly, Sondland's released testimony corroborates with Taylor's testimony:



Sondland DID know there was a quid pro quo, and Morrison accurately relayed that info to Taylor who accurately testified to it. Taylor only speculated on the reason for the quid pro quo through the NYT article. Since the reason does not entirely determine the legality of the quid pro quo, Taylor's speculation is moot. He could speculate that it was to appease the aliens from mars, and that doesn't negate quid pro quo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
when you tell everyone you are a "whistleblower" with "first-hand knowledge", but all you did was read a story in the paper
Did you read the previous few pages? His testimony was about the info he received from Morrison about Sondland. The article was after-the-fact speculation.

In case building, you use corroborating testimony to bolster the case. Taylor's corroborating evidence bolster's the idea that Sondland knew that a quid pro quo was in place. Fittingly, Sondland's released testimony corroborates with Taylor's testimony:



Sondland DID know there was a quid pro quo, and Morrison accurately relayed that info to Taylor who accurately testified to it. Taylor only speculated on the reason for the quid pro quo through the NYT article. Since the reason does not entirely determine the legality of the quid pro quo, Taylor's speculation is moot. He could speculate that it was to appease the aliens from mars, and that doesn't negate quid pro quo.
Wow, that's a whole lot of he said/she said, but the NYT and this person told me, and that person said...
The article is immaterial. He was asked to speculate. Sondland's and Taylor's testimony now corroborate with each other. That's the point. Taylor's account alone isn't enough, but he reported his expevrience. He got the message from Morrison. Was he supposed to not mention it?
Speculation, changing testimony and third-hand accounts.

Oh yeah, this is rock solid.

Well, hate to burst your orange man bad bubble, but this is going nowhere.
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      11-08-2019, 08:19 AM   #1941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Here's the meat in question:

"She testified explicitly that she did not reply to Carey's follow-up email concerning whom she should contact at the State Department"

And then:

"Emails showed that in fact, Yovanovitch had responded to Carey's initial Aug. 14 email, writing that she "would love to reconnect and look forward to chatting with you."

I'm not tracking all this except from afar, so I'm in the dark as to who are what this pertains to, but it appears she lied.
All the stuff I'm reading in my quick Google says "reportedly emails showed" or "allegedly emails showed".

...Carey's emails and Yovanovitch's reported replies will raise questions of who knew about the whistleblower complaint before it was made public...
(emphasis mine)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-staffer.html

Plus, the way the Q&A progressed, her response could easily have meant she didn't respond to the 2nd email from Carey:

Yovanovitch added: 'So, she emailed me. I alerted the State Department and, you know, asked them to handle the correspondence. And, she emailed me again and said, you know, who should I be in touch with?

'I didn't respond to that email, because I had already transferred everything to the State Department and I figured they would be in touch, and they were.'

(emphasis mine)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-staffer.html


I haven't heard anything about this before I saw your post this AM, so I'm certainly not the most well-versed on the intricacies of the claim, either.

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      11-08-2019, 08:20 AM   #1942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
Speculation, changing testimony and third-hand accounts.

Oh yeah, this is rock solid.

Well, hate to burst your orange man bad bubble, but this is going nowhere.
If Taylor was the only witness, you might have a point.
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      11-08-2019, 08:24 AM   #1943
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Why would you not expect information to flow down the chain in that manner?

Our Director tells my boss information, my boss then tells me. That's the way it's worked in literally every job I've had and every military unit I've been a part of.

Information yes but testimony no. No court in the land including under the UCMJ would allow testimony gleaned from from 3rd party hearsay. What was done in the basement of Congress was testimony not just passing down the plan of the day from C.O. to the troops.
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      11-08-2019, 09:38 AM   #1944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Here's the meat in question:

"She testified explicitly that she did not reply to Carey's follow-up email concerning whom she should contact at the State Department"

And then:

"Emails showed that in fact, Yovanovitch had responded to Carey's initial Aug. 14 email, writing that she "would love to reconnect and look forward to chatting with you."

I'm not tracking all this except from afar, so I'm in the dark as to who are what this pertains to, but it appears she lied.
All the stuff I'm reading in my quick Google says "reportedly emails showed" or "allegedly emails showed".

...Carey's emails and Yovanovitch's reported replies will raise questions of who knew about the whistleblower complaint before it was made public...
(emphasis mine)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-staffer.html

Plus, the way the Q&A progressed, her response could easily have meant she didn't respond to the 2nd email from Carey:

Yovanovitch added: 'So, she emailed me. I alerted the State Department and, you know, asked them to handle the correspondence. And, she emailed me again and said, you know, who should I be in touch with?

'I didn't respond to that email, because I had already transferred everything to the State Department and I figured they would be in touch, and they were.'

(emphasis mine)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-staffer.html


I haven't heard anything about this before I saw your post this AM, so I'm certainly not the most well-versed on the intricacies of the claim, either.

well, the reality of this email exchange is another one of those things we're going to have to wait for, not long though i think.
interestingly, Democrat staffers began last night parsing the text of the emails. i take this to mean that THEY believe 1) that Republicans have the emails and that 2) they think the emails are a problem.
here's a sample==>
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      11-08-2019, 09:46 AM   #1945
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Information yes but testimony no. No court in the land including under the UCMJ would allow testimony gleaned from from 3rd party hearsay. What was done in the basement of Congress was testimony not just passing down the plan of the day from C.O. to the troops.
He's testifying about conversations he had. That would not be disallowed anywhere.

If Morrison told him directly that there was a quid pro quo with Ukraine, that's valid testimony. If Morrison told him that he (Morrison) got that information from Sondland, that's valid testimony, too.
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      11-08-2019, 09:48 AM   #1946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
well, the reality of this email exchange is another one of those things we're going to have to wait for, not long though i think.
interestingly, Democrat staffers began last night parsing the text of the emails. i take this to mean that THEY believe 1) that Republicans have the emails and that 2) they think the emails are a problem.
here's a sample==>
I would think it'll all come out next week as she's scheduled to give public testimony, right?

ETA -- Yep, a week from today she's scheduled to testify.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...195545984.html

Last edited by hooligan_COLD; 11-08-2019 at 10:12 AM..
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      11-08-2019, 05:18 PM   #1947
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Quote:
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Pajama boy is feeling the heat. Lawyers have requested meeting with Nunes and other Republicans.

Dems now saying they don't know when public testimonies will take place.

What a cluster. Bag, meet 2020.
Next week.
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      11-08-2019, 07:34 PM   #1948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
Speculation, changing testimony and third-hand accounts.

Oh yeah, this is rock solid.

Well, hate to burst your orange man bad bubble, but this is going nowhere.
He was ASKED to speculate during the testimony. The speculation wasn't the actual testimony, and as someone else pointed out, he is reporting down the chain. He was told something and was accurately testifying he was told. Seems like an accurate testimony. Does it completely make a case? No, but this is a building block of corroboration.

My bubble isn't burst, because it is obviously going somewhere and I'm not the one going to be crying based on the results of these hearings, because as I noted in another reply, Trump in office it doesn't effect me as much as it effects the Trump supporters who seem to ride on the coat tails on the success or failure of one "orange man". I have little to lose in this race, you have much much more.
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      11-08-2019, 07:38 PM   #1949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
He's testifying about conversations he had. That would not be disallowed anywhere.

If Morrison told him directly that there was a quid pro quo with Ukraine, that's valid testimony. If Morrison told him that he (Morrison) got that information from Sondland, that's valid testimony, too.
It's funny how Trumpster's can't wrap their heads around this. This is basic case building, it's not like Taylor is the ONLY one testifying and that this is the ONLY piece of information. Sondland himself verified this in his own testimony, but the MAGA posse keep circling back like a herd of brain damaged cows.
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      11-08-2019, 08:47 PM   #1950
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Patterns, patterns, patterns.........

Wall Street Journal: Giuliani associates asked former Ukrainian President to investigate Bidens and 2016 election https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/polit...ion/index.html
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      11-08-2019, 09:25 PM   #1951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Patterns, patterns, patterns.........

Wall Street Journal: Giuliani associates asked former Ukrainian President to investigate Bidens and 2016 election https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/polit...ion/index.html
This might actually make trump look better. Biden wasn't officially running in February, so he wasn't necessarily a political opponent.
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      11-08-2019, 10:02 PM   #1952
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Quote:
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This might actually make trump look better. Biden wasn't officially running in February, so he wasn't necessarily a political opponent.
CB not very good at following timelines which is why he keeps believing in fake news

In other news
View post on imgur.com
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      11-08-2019, 10:19 PM   #1953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
This might actually make trump look better. Biden wasn't officially running in February, so he wasn't necessarily a political opponent.
CB not very good at following timelines which is why he keeps believing in fake news

In other news
View post on imgur.com
Have you learned the difference between:
Zelensky
Poroshenko
Yanukovych
Tymoshenko

Let me know if you have!
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      11-08-2019, 10:22 PM   #1954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Patterns, patterns, patterns.........

Wall Street Journal: Giuliani associates asked former Ukrainian President to investigate Bidens and 2016 election https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/polit...ion/index.html
This might actually make trump look better. Biden wasn't officially running in February, so he wasn't necessarily a political opponent.
He wasn't officially running yet, but odds were he was going to run. And would be a huge favorite over Trump.
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      11-08-2019, 11:02 PM   #1955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Have you learned the difference between:
Zelensky
Poroshenko
Yanukovych
Tymoshenko

Let me know if you have!
Nope, pretty terrible with names
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      11-09-2019, 12:55 AM   #1956
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And they had to Changed Incriminating Words in the "transcript" of the "perfect call" https://www.memorandumdaily.com/2019...d-changed.html
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      11-09-2019, 08:06 AM   #1957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
This might actually make trump look better. Biden wasn't officially running in February, so he wasn't necessarily a political opponent.
No, it doesn't make Trump look better.

If true, it shows he tried the same abuse of power with two different Ukrainian administrations.
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      11-09-2019, 09:31 AM   #1958
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If somehow this isn't the end of Biden and he becomes president...it will be Mueller 2. But unlike Mueller 1 this one will be out in the open and justified. I said this some time ago. But it's obvious even t o a dim Dimocrat now that Grassly is involved. Grassley is very meticulous. He does not spin his wheels!!
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