[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by metrixBMW

obviously I'm biased but go for the M440

The OP said 1) he was having the time of his life driving the 430i in corners and 2) he was excited about the 40 MPG fuel savings. So on those grounds, 430i is the recommendation.

Others who want higher straight line speeds at the sacrifice of sharper handling should choose the 440i.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

The OP said 1) he was having the time of his life driving the 430i in corners and 2) he was excited about the 40 MPG fuel savings. So on those grounds, 430i is the recommendation.

Others who want higher straight line speeds at the sacrifice of sharper handling should choose the 440i.

I do wonder if OP picks 430i or M440i

[BMW012]

here is the truth: if the 430 and m440i were the same price i'm pretty sure 99% would pick the m440i. for the other 1% who wouldn't. it just means you have made the right choice for your purposes/priorities.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

The OP said 1) he was having the time of his life driving the 430i in corners and 2) he was excited about the 40 MPG fuel savings. So on those grounds, 430i is the recommendation.

Others who want higher straight line speeds at the sacrifice of sharper handling should choose the 440i.

The 430i may have slightly sharper turn in but to hail it as having sharper handling overall with an open diff is quite a stretch. The torque vectoring differential standard on the 40i's models have a far greater impact on handling than what the 30i models can muster.

Even more ludicrous to insinuate that 40i models are only superior in a straight line compared to the 30i. Obviously this is the opinion held by folks who've never driver a car in a situation where an LSD would be beneficial.

[Eclimax13]

I, the op, have chosen the m440i after 1 minute of driving it.

[LostInSpace]

You made the right choice.

I hope you enjoy, in good health, the subpar handling and power you can't use. ��

[Pkinneb]

Originally Posted by Eclimax13

I, the op, have chosen the m440i after 1 minute of driving it.

I made the same decision in about the same amount of time

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by Eclimax13

I, the op, have chosen the m440i after 1 minute of driving it.

It’s not even close, is it? 😂

I hope you love it as much as I love mine.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

The OP said 1) he was having the time of his life driving the 430i in corners and 2) he was excited about the 40 MPG fuel savings. So on those grounds, 430i is the recommendation.

Others who want higher straight line speeds at the sacrifice of sharper handling should choose the 440i.

You can use the straight line speed a lot more frequently than the handling. You are not going to drive 10/10ths on a corner. You will corner at 7/10ths.

And if the 430 is an open diff, ouch!

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Dan B

You can use the straight line speed a lot more frequently than the handling. You are not going to drive 10/10ths on a corner. You will corner at 7/10ths.

And if the 430 is an open diff, ouch!

BMW put eLSD into F-series non-M cars, so G-series non-M should have similar eLSD.

And check this out, the G20 330i can drift.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

BMW put eLSD into F-series non-M cars, so G-series non-M should have similar eLSD.

The M340i/M440i *and* the 430i with the dynamic handling package get the M-LSD which is identically the same LSD put in the M2/M3/M4 (other than the gear ratio). The lockup can be varied from 0-100% via a motor applying force to the LSD discs...all of which is under programmed control depending on all the inputs available to it from the car (throttle position and rate of change, steering angle and rate of change, accelerometers, wheel speed sensors, brake force pressure and rate of change, etc, etc,). From years of driving one on track and autocross courses with my M2C, it's a really impressive unit and the programming on lockup needed is outstanding. I love it. So much better than a static lockup LSD or the Visco-lok LSD like in my E90 M3 (although once that locks up, it's acceptable).

The M-LSD in the G series M2/M3/M4/M340i/M440i is essentially the same unit introduced on the F8x M cars and installed in the M2, M2C, M3, M4, etc.

What you're referring to is the non-M cars of the F generation which used the rear brakes to create drag on one side or the other in an attempt to limit wheelspin. It's crude, it's nothing like a real LSD, and it's simply horrible on track. None of the non-M F-series cars came with a real LSD. You could order a traditional Salisbury LSD with 25% lockup for the M235i as a dealer installed part, and that was it for non-M F-series cars.

For the G series cars, if you don't get the M340i/M440i or a 430i with dynamic handling package, you get an open differential. Note that for model years up through 2022, the 330i with the dynamic handling package came with the M-LSD also, but as part of cost cutting, BMW eliminated the LSD diff from that package for the 330i for 2023+. Also finding a used 2022 or earlier with the dynamic handling package is exceedingly rare, and if you do find one that also has the M-sport package, chances are good it is a former Performance Center car.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

What you're referring to is the non-M cars of the F generation which used the rear brakes to create drag on one side or the other in an attempt to limit wheelspin. It's crude, it's nothing like a real LSD, and it's simply horrible on track. None of the non-M F-series cars came with a real LSD. You could order a traditional Salisbury LSD with 25% lockup for the M235i as a dealer installed part, and that was it for non-M F-series cars.

I think BMW 's terminology of the eLSD is electronically controlled Automatic Differential Brake (ADB) system that runs on an open diff, it works reasonably well for non-track usage.

The following is an old thread that talks about ADB.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719012

While the M-lite cars get the M sport differential, they also do not have the true M chassis and attributes such that the M sport differential on a M-lite may not bring the same driving control and experience on the track as a true M.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I think BMW 's terminology of the eLSD is electronically controlled Automatic Differential Brake (ADB) system that runs on an open diff, it works reasonably well for non-track usage.

The following is an old thread that talks about ADB.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719012

While the M-lite cars get the M sport differential, they also do not have the true M chassis and attributes such that the M sport differential on a M-lite may not bring the same driving control and experience on the track as a true M.

That's an invalid statement. From personal experience with my 2024 M340i vs my M2 Competition, DSC fully off, the M-LSD works wonderfully on the G20. Clearly back to back with a G80 M3 you notice the stiffer springs/damping and sway bars along with the larger wheels/tires compared to an M340i (obviously), but as far as the M LSD goes, it works just as nicely on either car. The M340i specification is the only reason we bought this car...if it didn't come with the M LSD, it wouldn't be in our garage, and it would have forced our hand to get the G80 and just deal with its compromises. Long ago I vowed never to own an RWD car without an LSD, heck even a Salisbury static lockup one if that's all there is available.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

That's an invalid statement. From personal experience with my 2024 M340i vs my M2 Competition, DSC fully off, the M-LSD works wonderfully on the G20. Clearly back to back with a G80 M3 you notice the stiffer springs/damping and sway bars along with the larger wheels/tires compared to an M340i (obviously), but as far as the M LSD goes, it works just as nicely on either car. The M340i specification is the only reason we bought this car...if it didn't come with the M LSD, it wouldn't be in our garage, and it would have forced our hand to get the G80 and just deal with its compromises. Long ago I vowed never to own an RWD car without an LSD, heck even a Salisbury static lockup one if that's all there is available.

Do u find good use of the M sport differential in non-track driving conditions?

In general true-M owners would like the full scope of true-M characteristics available for track usage, it is interesting to read your purchase experience that a M sport differential alone is enough to forgo the rest of the true-M experience for track usage.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Do u find good use of the M sport differential in non-track driving conditions?

In general true-M owners would like the full scope of true-M characteristics available for track usage, it is interesting to read your purchase experience that a M sport differential alone is enough to forgo the rest of the true-M experience for track usage.

That's making a lot of assumptions and biases, none of which are true of course. The M340i will likely never see a track since I have other cars I use for that. There's no question that if it was saddled with an open differential coupled with its close to 400whp that I would never have purchased it. The car would never be able to put down hardly any serious torque with major DSC intervention (or if DSC off, lots of throttle management), especially in the wet. In other words, I wouldn't want to own the car and would not have bought it if that was the case.

We played off the G80 M3 6MT versus the M340i for a few months before ordering the M340i. As far as acceleration go, the ZF8 M340i is quicker to 60mph than the 6MT M3 and only 0.2 seconds slower to 100mph, so daily use would say they are near equivalent...that is until you actually drive both extensively and realize the S58 is very weak until almost 3000rpms, so you do need to mind the tach. For similar reasons (i.e. making big higher rpm HP), the G80 is much less fuel efficient in typical daily driving and also especially highway driving where the 6th gear has the engine singing along at 3k rpms or more on the interstate.

All that said, we were on the path to ordering a 6MT G80 until I spent some track time with an M340i last fall where I was super impressed with the ZF8 in sport+ mode along with the LSD managing power on trackout. Additionally, the feedback through the steering wheel was sufficient enough to delicately manage fine inputs to put it right on the limits of adhesion and hold it there (especially on the wet skid pad rat race experience at the PC) continually.

Anyway, given all the combined experiences and the planned use of the car (all street use but we have some wicked driving roads less than 10min away in the SC/NC mountains), my wife gave up her demand to have a 6MT car since she can always drive the M2C for fun. Sadly, due to neutering of the S58 in the 6MT version, the G80 M3 just doesn't quite cut it for me if I was looking buy a car for my personal use. If I had to buy a G80 M3 and give up a 6MT, I'd probably buy the M3 CS.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

That's making a lot of assumptions and biases, none of which are true of course. The M340i will likely never see a track since I have other cars I use for that. There's no question that if it was saddled with an open differential coupled with its close to 400whp that I would never have purchased it. The car would never be able to put down hardly any serious torque with major DSC intervention (or if DSC off, lots of throttle management), especially in the wet. In other words, I wouldn't want to own the car and would not have bought it if that was the case.

For sure the 400whp definitely requires extra hardware assist like M sport differential. I think your non-track use case in the mountains(subject to inclement weather?) likely also can benefit from the extra hardware.

For a 250+HP 330i, the open diff + ADB work reasonably well on local cloverleafs and tight connectors and hilly terrains, even in recent stormy conditions.

[Brooklyn Grey 23]

Originally Posted by Eclimax13

I, the op, have chosen the m440i after 1 minute of driving it.

Same here, brother. Same here lol

[Eclimax13]

I'm now in a 540 loaner and it's so damn boring. Should have taken the 430 again. Just waiting for a 440 to show up with the options I'm looking for. Waiting has been the worst part. I've never wanted to get into a car more. Can't pinpoint what is so great about this model, I just know I have to have one.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by Eclimax13

I'm now in a 540 loaner and it's so damn boring. Should have taken the 430 again. Just waiting for a 440 to show up with the options I'm looking for. Waiting has been the worst part. I've never wanted to get into a car more. Can't pinpoint what is so great about this model, I just know I have to have one.

I have had a zillion BMWs, my 440xi GC is my favorite so far. Incredibly well-rounded car—perfect equipose of sporty, comfort, practical. And the ability to adjust among all of those settings and priorities is great.

I am 2 years in, and there’s really no reason to swap this car out for anything else. I could improve upon one aspect or another, but I could not improve upon the whole package.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Even more ludicrous to insinuate that 40i models are only superior in a straight line compared to the 30i. Obviously this is the opinion held by folks who've never driver a car in a situation where an LSD would be beneficial.

Correct, but who does really? Are we really saying that the typical 45-65 year old executive who can afford such a luxury car is drifting? I thought LSD wasn't good for that anyway.

If you're talking about LSD to help balance the wheels on inconsistent terrain, why the need for insane torque and HP anyway, it's rather irresponsible driving.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Dan B

You can use the straight line speed a lot more frequently than the handling. You are not going to drive 10/10ths on a corner. You will corner at 7/10ths.

And if the 430 is an open diff, ouch!

But isn't that what DSC is for?

Again, not talking about those who are professional drivers on a closed course trying to eke out the very last drop of performance. For the average Joe commuting daily and having a little fun on backroads 5x a year.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by wdc330i

I have had a zillion BMWs, my 440xi GC is my favorite so far. Incredibly well-rounded car—perfect equipose of sporty, comfort, practical. And the ability to adjust among all of those settings and priorities is great.

I am 2 years in, and there’s really no reason to swap this car out for anything else. I could improve upon one aspect or another, but I could not improve upon the whole package.

I wish the US had got the good options they get in the EU - M seats, Carbon roof, acoustic glass. But otherwise you are right - the g2x cars are the consummate all rounder.