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      04-07-2019, 12:53 PM   #89
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My wallet can, though. Let's see what an LCI brings.
look at the LCI 7 series similar design of the back lights... the design is here to stay for several years...
Very true, thank God we all have choices to make, like "other" manufacturers! Like the song goes "we're not going to take it" hum a few bars
Exactly, if you don't like it go to the next brand!! It might not be as good as BMW but at least you'll have the "pretty" back lights that you'll be happy with!!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻
To be honest, aesthetically it's fine. Price tag for a 4 banger manufactured in Mexico, is absurd! But you've noticed this. Needless to say, I like my German cars manufactured in some crazy place, like Germany
This whole thing about cars being assembled in Mexico is also getting old. The price is right up there with the other European brands.
BMW manufactures part of the X line in the US for years are those pure GERMAN CARS?
Or is it the part of MEXICO that you don't like. Other European brands as well as AMERICAN brands are in MEXICO.
You need to understand that unless you pay close to 100k for a "pure" German car you will have to get used to the fact that lesser models will be made through out the world to save cost.
Thats funny because the price went up despite it obviously being cheaper to make...
Hmmm is called inflation. The buying power of the US greenback is less and less as each year goes by. Prices on products go up and salaries remain stagnant. So a $61K "4 banger" is not really that off the charts.

You should see the retail prices of BMWs 20-30 years adjusted for inflation in today's money.
2001 purchased my "6" 325i(1st bimmer) 33K loaded and out the door. Might add manufactured in of all places, Germany. Is my opinion that difficult to comprehend? This topic seems to drift further away with every post. BTW, 61K for a "4 banger" is absolutely absurd. Tip....Buy a Civic and pocket the coin, thank me later
Hmm that's interesting, what makes you say that?

I am not in the market for a G20 nor any new car at the moment and hopefully for the next 5 years.

BTW $33K in 2001 equals to $47K in today's money, a cumulative rate of inflation of 43%. Alarming how our money is worth half of its buying power in only 18 years. It will take another 20 years to pay nearly $70K for a base 3-Series

And was that $33K a negotiated out the door price or the window sticker price? I am sure it was the former. Was what the sticker price of that 2001 325i, loaded? Perhaps closer or inching towards $40K grand?

While the E46 was a nice car for its time, I am sure it didn't even have half of the safety systems, manufacturing advances, better quality and interior amenities found in a new G20. I am sure it was loaded for what you could get or configure a new E46 back then.

Also as a former owner of an '11 E90, I can confidently say that while old BMWs with the N/A in-line sixer were fun to drive they were also on the slow side....

Any new G20 with the B46 turbo engine will run circles around any E36/ E46/E90 with the N/A six with far better fuel economy. And the ZF 8-speed automatic will wipe the floor with any manual or automatic offering on any E chassis 3 series.

You mention the Civic? I have never had any interest in present day renditions of Japanese econoboxes. Not only they are eye sores but the quality and reliability that Honda was once known for has also gone down the drain. And yes I was a former Honda/Acura owner. My last Honda product (1997 Acura 2.5TL "Loaded")was let go 20 years ago to never look back.
$47k still less than 61k, made in Germany a plus, hydraulic steering, drove like a bimmer. Why so defensive about the brand? We all have various opinions in life, which I respect. Let's just say we agree to disagree, works for me
Interesting what makes you say that?
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      04-07-2019, 01:21 PM   #90
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My wallet can, though. Let's see what an LCI brings.
look at the LCI 7 series similar design of the back lights... the design is here to stay for several years...
Very true, thank God we all have choices to make, like "other" manufacturers! Like the song goes "we're not going to take it" hum a few bars
Exactly, if you don't like it go to the next brand!! It might not be as good as BMW but at least you'll have the "pretty" back lights that you'll be happy with!!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻
To be honest, aesthetically it's fine. Price tag for a 4 banger manufactured in Mexico, is absurd! But you've noticed this. Needless to say, I like my German cars manufactured in some crazy place, like Germany
This whole thing about cars being assembled in Mexico is also getting old. The price is right up there with the other European brands.
BMW manufactures part of the X line in the US for years are those pure GERMAN CARS?
Or is it the part of MEXICO that you don't like. Other European brands as well as AMERICAN brands are in MEXICO.
You need to understand that unless you pay close to 100k for a "pure" German car you will have to get used to the fact that lesser models will be made through out the world to save cost.
Thats funny because the price went up despite it obviously being cheaper to make...
Hmmm is called inflation. The buying power of the US greenback is less and less as each year goes by. Prices on products go up and salaries remain stagnant. So a $61K "4 banger" is not really that off the charts.

You should see the retail prices of BMWs 20-30 years adjusted for inflation in today's money.
2001 purchased my "6" 325i(1st bimmer) 33K loaded and out the door. Might add manufactured in of all places, Germany. Is my opinion that difficult to comprehend? This topic seems to drift further away with every post. BTW, 61K for a "4 banger" is absolutely absurd. Tip....Buy a Civic and pocket the coin, thank me later
Hmm that's interesting, what makes you say that?

I am not in the market for a G20 nor any new car at the moment and hopefully for the next 5 years.

BTW $33K in 2001 equals to $47K in today's money, a cumulative rate of inflation of 43%. Alarming how our money is worth half of its buying power in only 18 years. It will take another 20 years to pay nearly $70K for a base 3-Series

And was that $33K a negotiated out the door price or the window sticker price? I am sure it was the former. Was what the sticker price of that 2001 325i, loaded? Perhaps closer or inching towards $40K grand?

While the E46 was a nice car for its time, I am sure it didn't even have half of the safety systems, manufacturing advances, better quality and interior amenities found in a new G20. I am sure it was loaded for what you could get or configure a new E46 back then.

Also as a former owner of an '11 E90, I can confidently say that while old BMWs with the N/A in-line sixer were fun to drive they were also on the slow side....

Any new G20 with the B46 turbo engine will run circles around any E36/ E46/E90 with the N/A six with far better fuel economy. And the ZF 8-speed automatic will wipe the floor with any manual or automatic offering on any E chassis 3 series.

You mention the Civic? I have never had any interest in present day renditions of Japanese econoboxes. Not only they are eye sores but the quality and reliability that Honda was once known for has also gone down the drain. And yes I was a former Honda/Acura owner. My last Honda product (1997 Acura 2.5TL "Loaded")was let go 20 years ago to never look back.
$47k still less than 61k, made in Germany a plus, hydraulic steering, drove like a bimmer. Why so defensive about the brand? We all have various opinions in life, which I respect. Let's just say we agree to disagree, works for me
Interesting what makes you say that?
Edited above, discussion closed.
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      04-07-2019, 01:40 PM   #91
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Turbo, really? I don't purchase BMW to conserve fuel, My ZCP drives in sport+ also prefer the natural aspirated version of past. On the 325 side,47k still less than 61k, made in Germany a plus, hydraulic steering, drove like a bimmer. Of coarse my price was intensely negotiated, don't we all? Why so defensive about the brand? We all have various opinions in life, which I respect. Let's just say we agree to disagree, works for me Enjoy your new G20!!
Have you ever thought that BMW engineers may also prefer N/A engines, hydraulic steering, different dynamics?

The world has changed for BMW, (and the other European marques), driven by necessity in Europe. BMW won't achieve current legislation and emission targets, living in the past. We either embrace the necessity for these changes, or we look elsewhere for our own utopia.
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      04-07-2019, 02:19 PM   #92
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Turbo, really? I don't purchase BMW to conserve fuel, My ZCP drives in sport+ also prefer the natural aspirated version of past. On the 325 side,47k still less than 61k, made in Germany a plus, hydraulic steering, drove like a bimmer. Of coarse my price was intensely negotiated, don't we all? Why so defensive about the brand? We all have various opinions in life, which I respect. Let's just say we agree to disagree, works for me Enjoy your new G20!!
Have you ever thought that BMW engineers may also prefer N/A engines, hydraulic steering, different dynamics?

The world has changed for BMW, (and the other European marques), driven by necessity in Europe. BMW won't achieve current legislation and emission targets, living in the past. We either embrace the necessity for these changes, or we look elsewhere for our own utopia.
Is this newsworthy?? I am aware. Been driving bummers since I was 20 years old, so......
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      04-07-2019, 02:50 PM   #93
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My wallet can, though. Let's see what an LCI brings.
look at the LCI 7 series similar design of the back lights... the design is here to stay for several years...
Very true, thank God we all have choices to make, like "other" manufacturers! Like the song goes "we're not going to take it" hum a few bars
Exactly, if you don't like it go to the next brand!! It might not be as good as BMW but at least you'll have the "pretty" back lights that you'll be happy with!!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻
To be honest, aesthetically it's fine. Price tag for a 4 banger manufactured in Mexico, is absurd! But you've noticed this. Needless to say, I like my German cars manufactured in some crazy place, like Germany
This whole thing about cars being assembled in Mexico is also getting old. The price is right up there with the other European brands.
BMW manufactures part of the X line in the US for years are those pure GERMAN CARS?
Or is it the part of MEXICO that you don't like. Other European brands as well as AMERICAN brands are in MEXICO.
You need to understand that unless you pay close to 100k for a "pure" German car you will have to get used to the fact that lesser models will be made through out the world to save cost.
Thats funny because the price went up despite it obviously being cheaper to make...
Hmmm is called inflation. The buying power of the US greenback is less and less as each year goes by. Prices on products go up and salaries remain stagnant. So a $61K "4 banger" is not really that off the charts.

You should see the retail prices of BMWs 20-30 years adjusted for inflation in today's money.
2001 purchased my "6" 325i(1st bimmer) 33K loaded and out the door. Might add manufactured in of all places, Germany. Is my opinion that difficult to comprehend? This topic seems to drift further away with every post. BTW, 61K for a "4 banger" is absolutely absurd. Tip....Buy a Civic and pocket the coin, thank me later
Just for fun, let's compare the MSRP of the top Civic models and top 3 series models of 2001 and today.

2001 Civic 4dr Sdn GX CVT w/Side Airbags: $21,360

2019 Civic Type R Touring Manual: $35,700

Civic price increase: 67%

2001 3 Series 330Ci 2dr Cpe: $34,990
2020 3 Series M340xi: $56,000

3 Series price increase: 60%
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      04-07-2019, 03:16 PM   #94
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My wallet can, though. Let's see what an LCI brings.
look at the LCI 7 series similar design of the back lights... the design is here to stay for several years...
Very true, thank God we all have choices to make, like "other" manufacturers! Like the song goes "we're not going to take it" hum a few bars
Exactly, if you don't like it go to the next brand!! It might not be as good as BMW but at least you'll have the "pretty" back lights that you'll be happy with!!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻
To be honest, aesthetically it's fine. Price tag for a 4 banger manufactured in Mexico, is absurd! But you've noticed this. Needless to say, I like my German cars manufactured in some crazy place, like Germany
This whole thing about cars being assembled in Mexico is also getting old. The price is right up there with the other European brands.
BMW manufactures part of the X line in the US for years are those pure GERMAN CARS?
Or is it the part of MEXICO that you don't like. Other European brands as well as AMERICAN brands are in MEXICO.
You need to understand that unless you pay close to 100k for a "pure" German car you will have to get used to the fact that lesser models will be made through out the world to save cost.
Thats funny because the price went up despite it obviously being cheaper to make...
Hmmm is called inflation. The buying power of the US greenback is less and less as each year goes by. Prices on products go up and salaries remain stagnant. So a $61K "4 banger" is not really that off the charts.

You should see the retail prices of BMWs 20-30 years adjusted for inflation in today's money.
2001 purchased my "6" 325i(1st bimmer) 33K loaded and out the door. Might add manufactured in of all places, Germany. Is my opinion that difficult to comprehend? This topic seems to drift further away with every post. BTW, 61K for a "4 banger" is absolutely absurd. Tip....Buy a Civic and pocket the coin, thank me later
Just for fun, let's compare the MSRP of the top Civic models and top 3 series models of 2001 and today.

2001 Civic 4dr Sdn GX CVT w/Side Airbags: $21,360

2019 Civic Type R Touring Manual: $35,700

Civic price increase: 67%

2001 3 Series 330Ci 2dr Cpe: $34,990
2020 3 Series M340xi: $56,000

3 Series price increase: 60%
That's what I was wondering... His $33K price for that 2001 325i must have been the negotiated "OTD" price, not the window sticker price that I am sure it was a lot closer to $40K or $57K in today's money.
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      04-07-2019, 06:50 PM   #95
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Just returned from the BMW event in Baltimore where we auto crossed cars just like this one. 330i MSport and, I believe, track pack.

I do have quite a bit of autocross experience in 330 E46 sport, highly modified E90 335, stock M4 ZCP so wanted to give my quick impressions, (just my opinions!)
- I was much more impressed in person of the looks of the exterior. I would buy one with this spec for spirited daily driver.
- Auto crossing at these events doesn't give you much time to appreciate the interior but I have to say I need more time for it to grow on me. Nor can you experience the features, your ushered in and out of the car quickly. I worry it's too generic but also don't like to form an opinion until I have more time to enjoy the car in normal driving.
- Regarding performance, I am very impressed with the handling. The car really scoots around the corners until the front tires were cooked and the tread blocks started deteriorating. There is better steering feel than F series and the dimensions of the vehicle become very familiar, quickly. Really impressed with agility!
- The power is stronger than you expect but takes a little time to come on. Even from a dead stop and punching it, it takes a good two count to really start moving. In all fairness, I have no idea what the car was set on an the BMW event person would not let me turn off the AC. Also, wasn't allowed to manually shift either. Also if you slightly miss an apex and need to dig out of a corner, it takes another 1-2 count. Started to accelerate a count before needed.

But all in all, very impressed and have new respect for the G series.
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      04-07-2019, 08:32 PM   #96
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Just returned from the BMW event in Baltimore where we auto crossed cars just like this one. 330i MSport and, I believe, track pack.

I do have quite a bit of autocross experience in 330 E46 sport, highly modified E90 335, stock M4 ZCP so wanted to give my quick impressions, (just my opinions!)
- I was much more impressed in person of the looks of the exterior. I would buy one with this spec for spirited daily driver.
- Auto crossing at these events doesn't give you much time to appreciate the interior but I have to say I need more time for it to grow on me. Nor can you experience the features, your ushered in and out of the car quickly. I worry it's too generic but also don't like to form an opinion until I have more time to enjoy the car in normal driving.
- Regarding performance, I am very impressed with the handling. The car really scoots around the corners until the front tires were cooked and the tread blocks started deteriorating. There is better steering feel than F series and the dimensions of the vehicle become very familiar, quickly. Really impressed with agility!
- The power is stronger than you expect but takes a little time to come on. Even from a dead stop and punching it, it takes a good two count to really start moving. In all fairness, I have no idea what the car was set on an the BMW event person would not let me turn off the AC. Also, wasn't allowed to manually shift either. Also if you slightly miss an apex and need to dig out of a corner, it takes another 1-2 count. Started to accelerate a count before needed.

But all in all, very impressed and have new respect for the G series.
Just went to the same event today and mostly agree with you. I was definitely impressed overall with the G20s they gave us, although I'm also sure they were loaded to the gills. The cars were super easy to kick the rear out, even with traction on, and the driving position, new seats and interior were really nice and gave a more premium vibe compared to the F30. I still wanted to see what they were like on the road as I have yet to fully test one, but they only had 1 sport-line 330i available for test driving, and I felt no desire to test it honestly, especially since I wanted to drive the M240i they had.

My only complaints are of course the 4 cylinder, which is a simple solution, pony up the cash for the M340i, and that the steering is too light still (not just a problem with the G20, most modern cars have this problem), and it didn't help that my friend drove us up in his 330i (e90) and let me drive, so it was weird going back and forth from hydraulic to electric, but overall much improved from the F30 steering, and I would likely be able to get over this, although the M340i doesn't share this new steering rack so I am a tad worried.

One problem is that I went straight for an M240i test drive right after the autocrossing, and forgot how good the 3 series was and remembered how BMW got the 2 series so right, definitely the enthusiast choice BMW, if only it had 4 doors! Also getting back into the 2 series, I also appreciated how simple and easy the design/ergonomics are in that versus the new cars, the analogue gauges were lovely, iDrive 6.0 in my opinion is better and it reminded me a lot of my old E46 in how small and nimble the 2 series was.
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      04-07-2019, 08:43 PM   #97
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HK Logic 7 Surround Distribution Setting

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Just wanted to pick up on your impressions of the H/K sound system. Did you have an F30 that you're comparing this to? I'd like to know whether there has been an improvement in the sound as I've read that previous iterations have been a bit average.
Having said that, I have H/K in my E92 and I enjoy it. Would have been nice for BMW to offer another brand of speakers as well here, like B&W, B&O, etc.
HK sound system continues to share the sound quality and characteristic as previous gen. Improved noise level in cabin and door panel insulation did seem to amplify low range bass and crispness of high range sound while car is both in idle state and in motion. HK system shared the same configurations such as treble, bass, balance, fader as the previous gen. It offered additional logic 7 surround configuration setting which allowed surround distribution to be adjusted with 5 levels. This provides surround distribution suitable for different music genre. Equalizer uses the same frequency adjustment between bass and treble (100Hz, 200Hz, 500Hz, 1kHz, 2kHz, 5kHz, 10kHz)

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      04-08-2019, 01:12 AM   #98
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Came out amazing, well done!
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      04-08-2019, 06:04 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamErc View Post
Just returned from the BMW event in Baltimore where we auto crossed cars just like this one. 330i MSport and, I believe, track pack.

I do have quite a bit of autocross experience in 330 E46 sport, highly modified E90 335, stock M4 ZCP so wanted to give my quick impressions, (just my opinions!)
- I was much more impressed in person of the looks of the exterior. I would buy one with this spec for spirited daily driver.
- Auto crossing at these events doesn't give you much time to appreciate the interior but I have to say I need more time for it to grow on me. Nor can you experience the features, your ushered in and out of the car quickly. I worry it's too generic but also don't like to form an opinion until I have more time to enjoy the car in normal driving.
- Regarding performance, I am very impressed with the handling. The car really scoots around the corners until the front tires were cooked and the tread blocks started deteriorating. There is better steering feel than F series and the dimensions of the vehicle become very familiar, quickly. Really impressed with agility!
- The power is stronger than you expect but takes a little time to come on. Even from a dead stop and punching it, it takes a good two count to really start moving. In all fairness, I have no idea what the car was set on an the BMW event person would not let me turn off the AC. Also, wasn't allowed to manually shift either. Also if you slightly miss an apex and need to dig out of a corner, it takes another 1-2 count. Started to accelerate a count before needed.

But all in all, very impressed and have new respect for the G series.
Just went to the same event today and mostly agree with you. I was definitely impressed overall with the G20s they gave us, although I'm also sure they were loaded to the gills. The cars were super easy to kick the rear out, even with traction on, and the driving position, new seats and interior were really nice and gave a more premium vibe compared to the F30. I still wanted to see what they were like on the road as I have yet to fully test one, but they only had 1 sport-line 330i available for test driving, and I felt no desire to test it honestly, especially since I wanted to drive the M240i they had.

My only complaints are of course the 4 cylinder, which is a simple solution, pony up the cash for the M340i, and that the steering is too light still (not just a problem with the G20, most modern cars have this problem), and it didn't help that my friend drove us up in his 330i (e90) and let me drive, so it was weird going back and forth from hydraulic to electric, but overall much improved from the F30 steering, and I would likely be able to get over this, although the M340i doesn't share this new steering rack so I am a tad worried.

One problem is that I went straight for an M240i test drive right after the autocrossing, and forgot how good the 3 series was and remembered how BMW got the 2 series so right, definitely the enthusiast choice BMW, if only it had 4 doors! Also getting back into the 2 series, I also appreciated how simple and easy the design/ergonomics are in that versus the new cars, the analogue gauges were lovely, iDrive 6.0 in my opinion is better and it reminded me a lot of my old E46 in how small and nimble the 2 series was.
What's wrong with the 4 cyl?
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      04-08-2019, 06:09 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by TeamErc View Post
Just returned from the BMW event in Baltimore where we auto crossed cars just like this one. 330i MSport and, I believe, track pack.

I do have quite a bit of autocross experience in 330 E46 sport, highly modified E90 335, stock M4 ZCP so wanted to give my quick impressions, (just my opinions!)
- I was much more impressed in person of the looks of the exterior. I would buy one with this spec for spirited daily driver.
- Auto crossing at these events doesn't give you much time to appreciate the interior but I have to say I need more time for it to grow on me. Nor can you experience the features, your ushered in and out of the car quickly. I worry it's too generic but also don't like to form an opinion until I have more time to enjoy the car in normal driving.
- Regarding performance, I am very impressed with the handling. The car really scoots around the corners until the front tires were cooked and the tread blocks started deteriorating. There is better steering feel than F series and the dimensions of the vehicle become very familiar, quickly. Really impressed with agility!
- The power is stronger than you expect but takes a little time to come on. Even from a dead stop and punching it, it takes a good two count to really start moving. In all fairness, I have no idea what the car was set on an the BMW event person would not let me turn off the AC. Also, wasn't allowed to manually shift either. Also if you slightly miss an apex and need to dig out of a corner, it takes another 1-2 count. Started to accelerate a count before needed.

But all in all, very impressed and have new respect for the G series.
Just went to the same event today and mostly agree with you. I was definitely impressed overall with the G20s they gave us, although I'm also sure they were loaded to the gills. The cars were super easy to kick the rear out, even with traction on, and the driving position, new seats and interior were really nice and gave a more premium vibe compared to the F30. I still wanted to see what they were like on the road as I have yet to fully test one, but they only had 1 sport-line 330i available for test driving, and I felt no desire to test it honestly, especially since I wanted to drive the M240i they had.

My only complaints are of course the 4 cylinder, which is a simple solution, pony up the cash for the M340i, and that the steering is too light still (not just a problem with the G20, most modern cars have this problem), and it didn't help that my friend drove us up in his 330i (e90) and let me drive, so it was weird going back and forth from hydraulic to electric, but overall much improved from the F30 steering, and I would likely be able to get over this, although the M340i doesn't share this new steering rack so I am a tad worried.

One problem is that I went straight for an M240i test drive right after the autocrossing, and forgot how good the 3 series was and remembered how BMW got the 2 series so right, definitely the enthusiast choice BMW, if only it had 4 doors! Also getting back into the 2 series, I also appreciated how simple and easy the design/ergonomics are in that versus the new cars, the analogue gauges were lovely, iDrive 6.0 in my opinion is better and it reminded me a lot of my old E46 in how small and nimble the 2 series was.
What's wrong with the 4 cyl?
Its just inherently a 4 cylinder, you know, it doesn't sound good, feels less smooth and refined than an inline 6. While it has enough power for most people, in my opinion, when I buy a BMW i really only go for their inline 6, its their bread and butter. They may have started with inline 4's but their best engine is the smooth and silky inline 6. For sound and refinement as well as strong power and torque, I always take the 6 over the 4. Its like the car screams "I'm a sports car" but we all know that that engine is in their for fuel economy/efficiency/cheaper reasons. Just my $0.02 on the subject. I know some people don't mind, and i'm sure its good for 95% of the population, but I just don't like them, never really have, never really will.
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      04-08-2019, 06:14 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
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Originally Posted by TeamErc View Post
Just returned from the BMW event in Baltimore where we auto crossed cars just like this one. 330i MSport and, I believe, track pack.

I do have quite a bit of autocross experience in 330 E46 sport, highly modified E90 335, stock M4 ZCP so wanted to give my quick impressions, (just my opinions!)
- I was much more impressed in person of the looks of the exterior. I would buy one with this spec for spirited daily driver.
- Auto crossing at these events doesn't give you much time to appreciate the interior but I have to say I need more time for it to grow on me. Nor can you experience the features, your ushered in and out of the car quickly. I worry it's too generic but also don't like to form an opinion until I have more time to enjoy the car in normal driving.
- Regarding performance, I am very impressed with the handling. The car really scoots around the corners until the front tires were cooked and the tread blocks started deteriorating. There is better steering feel than F series and the dimensions of the vehicle become very familiar, quickly. Really impressed with agility!
- The power is stronger than you expect but takes a little time to come on. Even from a dead stop and punching it, it takes a good two count to really start moving. In all fairness, I have no idea what the car was set on an the BMW event person would not let me turn off the AC. Also, wasn't allowed to manually shift either. Also if you slightly miss an apex and need to dig out of a corner, it takes another 1-2 count. Started to accelerate a count before needed.

But all in all, very impressed and have new respect for the G series.
Just went to the same event today and mostly agree with you. I was definitely impressed overall with the G20s they gave us, although I'm also sure they were loaded to the gills. The cars were super easy to kick the rear out, even with traction on, and the driving position, new seats and interior were really nice and gave a more premium vibe compared to the F30. I still wanted to see what they were like on the road as I have yet to fully test one, but they only had 1 sport-line 330i available for test driving, and I felt no desire to test it honestly, especially since I wanted to drive the M240i they had.

My only complaints are of course the 4 cylinder, which is a simple solution, pony up the cash for the M340i, and that the steering is too light still (not just a problem with the G20, most modern cars have this problem), and it didn't help that my friend drove us up in his 330i (e90) and let me drive, so it was weird going back and forth from hydraulic to electric, but overall much improved from the F30 steering, and I would likely be able to get over this, although the M340i doesn't share this new steering rack so I am a tad worried.

One problem is that I went straight for an M240i test drive right after the autocrossing, and forgot how good the 3 series was and remembered how BMW got the 2 series so right, definitely the enthusiast choice BMW, if only it had 4 doors! Also getting back into the 2 series, I also appreciated how simple and easy the design/ergonomics are in that versus the new cars, the analogue gauges were lovely, iDrive 6.0 in my opinion is better and it reminded me a lot of my old E46 in how small and nimble the 2 series was.
What's wrong with the 4 cyl?
Its just inherently a 4 cylinder, you know, it doesn't sound good, feels less smooth and refined than an inline 6. While it has enough power for most people, in my opinion, when I buy a BMW i really only go for their inline 6, its their bread and butter. They may have started with inline 4's but their best engine is the smooth and silky inline 6. For sound and refinement as well as strong power and torque, I always take the 6 over the 4. Its like the car screams "I'm a sports car" but we all know that that engine is in their for fuel economy/efficiency/cheaper reasons. Just my $0.02 on the subject. I know some people don't mind, and i'm sure its good for 95% of the population, but I just don't like them, never really have, never really will.
That may be it, but you do realize that the B58 is based on the B46/48 with 2 extra cylinders added to the block, thanks to the modular architecture?
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      04-08-2019, 06:20 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamErc View Post
Just returned from the BMW event in Baltimore where we auto crossed cars just like this one. 330i MSport and, I believe, track pack.

I do have quite a bit of autocross experience in 330 E46 sport, highly modified E90 335, stock M4 ZCP so wanted to give my quick impressions, (just my opinions!)
- I was much more impressed in person of the looks of the exterior. I would buy one with this spec for spirited daily driver.
- Auto crossing at these events doesn't give you much time to appreciate the interior but I have to say I need more time for it to grow on me. Nor can you experience the features, your ushered in and out of the car quickly. I worry it's too generic but also don't like to form an opinion until I have more time to enjoy the car in normal driving.
- Regarding performance, I am very impressed with the handling. The car really scoots around the corners until the front tires were cooked and the tread blocks started deteriorating. There is better steering feel than F series and the dimensions of the vehicle become very familiar, quickly. Really impressed with agility!
- The power is stronger than you expect but takes a little time to come on. Even from a dead stop and punching it, it takes a good two count to really start moving. In all fairness, I have no idea what the car was set on an the BMW event person would not let me turn off the AC. Also, wasn't allowed to manually shift either. Also if you slightly miss an apex and need to dig out of a corner, it takes another 1-2 count. Started to accelerate a count before needed.

But all in all, very impressed and have new respect for the G series.
Just went to the same event today and mostly agree with you. I was definitely impressed overall with the G20s they gave us, although I'm also sure they were loaded to the gills. The cars were super easy to kick the rear out, even with traction on, and the driving position, new seats and interior were really nice and gave a more premium vibe compared to the F30. I still wanted to see what they were like on the road as I have yet to fully test one, but they only had 1 sport-line 330i available for test driving, and I felt no desire to test it honestly, especially since I wanted to drive the M240i they had.

My only complaints are of course the 4 cylinder, which is a simple solution, pony up the cash for the M340i, and that the steering is too light still (not just a problem with the G20, most modern cars have this problem), and it didn't help that my friend drove us up in his 330i (e90) and let me drive, so it was weird going back and forth from hydraulic to electric, but overall much improved from the F30 steering, and I would likely be able to get over this, although the M340i doesn't share this new steering rack so I am a tad worried.

One problem is that I went straight for an M240i test drive right after the autocrossing, and forgot how good the 3 series was and remembered how BMW got the 2 series so right, definitely the enthusiast choice BMW, if only it had 4 doors! Also getting back into the 2 series, I also appreciated how simple and easy the design/ergonomics are in that versus the new cars, the analogue gauges were lovely, iDrive 6.0 in my opinion is better and it reminded me a lot of my old E46 in how small and nimble the 2 series was.
What's wrong with the 4 cyl?
Its just inherently a 4 cylinder, you know, it doesn't sound good, feels less smooth and refined than an inline 6. While it has enough power for most people, in my opinion, when I buy a BMW i really only go for their inline 6, its their bread and butter. They may have started with inline 4's but their best engine is the smooth and silky inline 6. For sound and refinement as well as strong power and torque, I always take the 6 over the 4. Its like the car screams "I'm a sports car" but we all know that that engine is in their for fuel economy/efficiency/cheaper reasons. Just my $0.02 on the subject. I know some people don't mind, and i'm sure its good for 95% of the population, but I just don't like them, never really have, never really will.
That may be it, but you do realize that the B58 is based on the B46/48 with 2 extra cylinders added to the block, thanks to the modular architecture?
I know, again like I said, I just don't like 4 cylinder engines myself, not just BMW, they are great for 95% of the population, but I won't ever be a fan of them. I much prefer the smoothness and sound of a good inline 6. I'm not saying someone can't buy the 4-cylinder, I'm saying as an enthusiast, I wouldn't.
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      04-08-2019, 06:35 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
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Originally Posted by TeamErc View Post
Just returned from the BMW event in Baltimore where we auto crossed cars just like this one. 330i MSport and, I believe, track pack.

I do have quite a bit of autocross experience in 330 E46 sport, highly modified E90 335, stock M4 ZCP so wanted to give my quick impressions, (just my opinions!)
- I was much more impressed in person of the looks of the exterior. I would buy one with this spec for spirited daily driver.
- Auto crossing at these events doesn't give you much time to appreciate the interior but I have to say I need more time for it to grow on me. Nor can you experience the features, your ushered in and out of the car quickly. I worry it's too generic but also don't like to form an opinion until I have more time to enjoy the car in normal driving.
- Regarding performance, I am very impressed with the handling. The car really scoots around the corners until the front tires were cooked and the tread blocks started deteriorating. There is better steering feel than F series and the dimensions of the vehicle become very familiar, quickly. Really impressed with agility!
- The power is stronger than you expect but takes a little time to come on. Even from a dead stop and punching it, it takes a good two count to really start moving. In all fairness, I have no idea what the car was set on an the BMW event person would not let me turn off the AC. Also, wasn't allowed to manually shift either. Also if you slightly miss an apex and need to dig out of a corner, it takes another 1-2 count. Started to accelerate a count before needed.

But all in all, very impressed and have new respect for the G series.
Just went to the same event today and mostly agree with you. I was definitely impressed overall with the G20s they gave us, although I'm also sure they were loaded to the gills. The cars were super easy to kick the rear out, even with traction on, and the driving position, new seats and interior were really nice and gave a more premium vibe compared to the F30. I still wanted to see what they were like on the road as I have yet to fully test one, but they only had 1 sport-line 330i available for test driving, and I felt no desire to test it honestly, especially since I wanted to drive the M240i they had.

My only complaints are of course the 4 cylinder, which is a simple solution, pony up the cash for the M340i, and that the steering is too light still (not just a problem with the G20, most modern cars have this problem), and it didn't help that my friend drove us up in his 330i (e90) and let me drive, so it was weird going back and forth from hydraulic to electric, but overall much improved from the F30 steering, and I would likely be able to get over this, although the M340i doesn't share this new steering rack so I am a tad worried.

One problem is that I went straight for an M240i test drive right after the autocrossing, and forgot how good the 3 series was and remembered how BMW got the 2 series so right, definitely the enthusiast choice BMW, if only it had 4 doors! Also getting back into the 2 series, I also appreciated how simple and easy the design/ergonomics are in that versus the new cars, the analogue gauges were lovely, iDrive 6.0 in my opinion is better and it reminded me a lot of my old E46 in how small and nimble the 2 series was.
What's wrong with the 4 cyl?
Its just inherently a 4 cylinder, you know, it doesn't sound good, feels less smooth and refined than an inline 6. While it has enough power for most people, in my opinion, when I buy a BMW i really only go for their inline 6, its their bread and butter. They may have started with inline 4's but their best engine is the smooth and silky inline 6. For sound and refinement as well as strong power and torque, I always take the 6 over the 4. Its like the car screams "I'm a sports car" but we all know that that engine is in their for fuel economy/efficiency/cheaper reasons. Just my $0.02 on the subject. I know some people don't mind, and i'm sure its good for 95% of the population, but I just don't like them, never really have, never really will.
That may be it, but you do realize that the B58 is based on the B46/48 with 2 extra cylinders added to the block, thanks to the modular architecture?
I know, again like I said, I just don't like 4 cylinder engines myself, not just BMW, they are great for 95% of the population, but I won't ever be a fan of them. I much prefer the smoothness and sound of a good inline 6. I'm not saying someone can't buy the 4-cylinder, I'm saying as an enthusiast, I wouldn't.
I am cool with that. Personal preference.

Happen to like both.
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      04-08-2019, 06:55 AM   #104
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My wallet can, though. Let's see what an LCI brings.
look at the LCI 7 series similar design of the back lights... the design is here to stay for several years...
Very true, thank God we all have choices to make, like "other" manufacturers! Like the song goes "we're not going to take it" hum a few bars
Exactly, if you don't like it go to the next brand!! It might not be as good as BMW but at least you'll have the "pretty" back lights that you'll be happy with!!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻
To be honest, aesthetically it's fine. Price tag for a 4 banger manufactured in Mexico, is absurd! But you've noticed this. Needless to say, I like my German cars manufactured in some crazy place, like Germany
This whole thing about cars being assembled in Mexico is also getting old. The price is right up there with the other European brands.
BMW manufactures part of the X line in the US for years are those pure GERMAN CARS?
Or is it the part of MEXICO that you don't like. Other European brands as well as AMERICAN brands are in MEXICO.
You need to understand that unless you pay close to 100k for a "pure" German car you will have to get used to the fact that lesser models will be made through out the world to save cost.
Thats funny because the price went up despite it obviously being cheaper to make...
Hmmm is called inflation. The buying power of the US greenback is less and less as each year goes by. Prices on products go up and salaries remain stagnant. So a $61K "4 banger" is not really that off the charts.

You should see the retail prices of BMWs 20-30 years adjusted for inflation in today's money.
2001 purchased my "6" 325i(1st bimmer) 33K loaded and out the door. Might add manufactured in of all places, Germany. Is my opinion that difficult to comprehend? This topic seems to drift further away with every post. BTW, 61K for a "4 banger" is absolutely absurd. Tip....Buy a Civic and pocket the coin, thank me later
Just for fun, let's compare the MSRP of the top Civic models and top 3 series models of 2001 and today.

2001 Civic 4dr Sdn GX CVT w/Side Airbags: $21,360

2019 Civic Type R Touring Manual: $35,700

Civic price increase: 67%

2001 3 Series 330Ci 2dr Cpe: $34,990
2020 3 Series M340xi: $56,000

3 Series price increase: 60%
That's what I was wondering... His $33K price for that 2001 325i must have been the negotiated "OTD" price, not the window sticker price that I am sure it was a lot closer to $40K or $57K in today's money.
Edit: A 325 started life at 26,990. Applying the 43% inflation gives you a base price of less than $39k, which is not very far off of the new 330. Except somehow it inflated to $61k with options in the car in question. That's an absurd increase from base price, which is what I think he was referring to.
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      04-08-2019, 01:39 PM   #105
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Just for fun, let's compare the MSRP of the top Civic models and top 3 series models of 2001 and today.

2001 Civic 4dr Sdn GX CVT w/Side Airbags: $21,360

2019 Civic Type R Touring Manual: $35,700

Civic price increase: 67%

2001 3 Series 330Ci 2dr Cpe: $34,990
2020 3 Series M340xi: $56,000

3 Series price increase: 60%
That's disingenuous because Honda never really had a Civic Type R until this newest generation. You basically just cherry picked the most extreme example possible.

That said, the price increases are in line with the rest of the industry. Inflation, the price of Civics, etc. don't matter. If the A4 and C class prices are competitive, that's all that matters. They are all releasing cheaper cars for people who want cheaper cars like the A3, A class, and 2 series. The 3/4, C, and A4/A5 are all moving slightly upmarket. They need to differentiate pricing.

If you think the car is too expensive, the only way BMW will lower prices is if you don't buy it. Obviously these carmakers feel comfortable charging more because people are paying the money. It's easy to put things like active cruise control in mass market cars like Altima and Accord to the point where they are near standard on these economy cars yet they are still relatively expensive options on "luxury" cars. Most of Nissan's cars (midsize and up) came standard with an intelligent key since 2005 or so and yet many BMWs still have this as option to this day. Yet people still buy them, so why not increase prices? People will continue paying the money.

I'm not saying people can't complain, but if someone continues buying the cars, nothing will change.
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      04-08-2019, 03:22 PM   #106
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Hate the big blank spot on the gear selector under I drive wheel. Looks so damn tacky and cheap
Yeah BMW's new commoditized gear shifter and drive control buttons are shared on basically all their cars now. It's not integrated to the specific car at all. It's just a big plastic square put in the middle of the center tunnel. It's got blank buttons that aren't even intended for higher trim 3 series. The buttons will ALWAYS be blank on all G20s since those are only for functions in SUVs or larger cars. It's kinda lame.
If you look at the manual version they move the idrive wheel back in to the blank spot to allow the shifter. Still looks terrible
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      04-08-2019, 08:51 PM   #107
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Went to the local BMW dealership in US to order my M340i x-drive.  I am so disappointed.

I could not get the automatic rear sunshade with manual side shades.  I was not able to order the 4-zone temperature for the rear.  I was not able to get black kidney grill and special order black side covers instead of the M340i silver Matt polished.  I couldn't believe that on the M340i HK sound system was not standard or the electric trunk closer.  I was told the credit card key was not available. 

With not being able to get many other packages and options, the MSRP came close to about $68,000 thousand dollars.  Crazy for a 3 Series.  

Worse, the new 3 Series compared to its competitors in its class and for the price in the US market lacks power tilt and telescopic steering wheel, comfort seats, cooled seats, 4-zone temperature, power headrest, power front seat leg extender, soft close door, and a more quiet cabine. 

The cockpait is okay, but Mercedez C class, Audi A-4, and few others have a much better interactive and HD displays.  The map in the cockpit is so old technology looking.  Also I, miss the ability to switch the speedometer to a analog looking style.  Aside from changing colors to differentiate between sport, comfort and ECO, it is very disappointing. 
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      04-08-2019, 09:47 PM   #108
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G20 Wheel Bolt Pattern and Emblem Size

G20 wheel bolt pattern 5x112 (previous gen: 5x120)
G20 center cap emblem: 54mm (previous gen: 68mm)
G20 hood emblem: 82mm (same as previous gen)
G20 trunk emblem: 74mm (same as previous gen)
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      04-08-2019, 10:22 PM   #109
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Engine sound : going thru speakers

Are the numbskulls still pumping engine sound through the speakers into the cabin?

If yes, how did it sound? Improved fake sound v. 2.0?
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      04-08-2019, 11:51 PM   #110
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G20 Active Sound Design (ASD)

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Are the numbskulls still pumping engine sound through the speakers into the cabin?
If yes, how did it sound? Improved fake sound v. 2.0?
ASD is more amplified. For people preferred ASD, they maybe thrilled by amplified/simulated exhaust sound in quieter cabin; for people not fond of ASD, they may feel otherwise. Would be nice if BMW offers Active Sound On/Off switch in car setting through software update.
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