10-10-2018, 01:00 PM | #67 |
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Sometimes I wonder if the G20 whiners are real BMW fans. When did it become "cool" to hate your favorite car brands' products? Has this become a basher's forum? Enough with the lexus rear end comparisons. Most of you wouldn't even buy one for its performance nor its driving dynamics since they're all inferior to BMW. If you can't stop lamenting how BMW's new models can't compare to its cars (E30, E46 and E90) of the past then maybe you should stay in the past. Times have changed and cars will too. Do you think a company would revert back to its previous generation's technology such as isntalling hydraulic steering to replace electronic in new cars? Perhaps this generation's steering is not quite as good (tbd) but at least they're improving it constantly and eventually they'll get there. You can't stop progress and companies certainly won't go backwards. Stats have shown that people have grown in height and weight over the years. It's logical for the 3 series to grow as well to a certain extent but they also have to look at what the competition does. Besides, it needs to make room for the upcoming 4 door 2 series to compete with the A3/S3 and CLA which BMW has missed out on this segment. Lastly, a recurrent complaint of the F30 was poor rear legroom. So what if it's slightly larger and a tad heavier. It offers so much more in terms of technology, comfort, road composure with advanced differential and dampers. It obliterates the previous generations on performance. Also, its structure rigidity are said to be much improved. It's baffling to me that people think they're cool by pointing out immaterial and subjective negative areas while they choose not to mention all the other improvements the car has over its previous generations. I sure wouldn't miss the waterpump failure and fuel pump problem in my E90. Yes the steering was more precise but I sure don't miss its stiffness and that unforgiving suspension with the slightest road imperfection. I also don't miss that backseat where no one can fit. BMW will continue to make luxury cars and aim to reclaim its #1 crown. It will do so by ensuring its new 3 series will appeal to the massive market of luxury segment buyers and not by yielding to the BMW purists or enthusiasts. BMW has already thrown them a bone with the M2. So shut up, get an M2 or stay in the past. Last edited by khailuan; 10-10-2018 at 01:52 PM.. Reason: correct spelling mistakes |
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10-10-2018, 01:04 PM | #68 | |
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First asking if BMW fans should only cheer whatever BMW does (like "real friends" who only say whatever you do is right, even when you're wrong) and then talk about BMW not appeasing to BMW fans but to the mass market. Pick your line of argument and come back. Thanks |
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10-10-2018, 01:04 PM | #69 |
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"First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don't feel how fast you are."
I hope this was just what he hoped people wanted to hear. If any of us enthusiasts wanted that, we would be driving an F30 or Lexus without a single complaint. Unfortunately, being in the car business I run into people constantly who dislike BMW’s for the very reasons we like them, so if BMW wants to sell cars to those people and steal market share from Lexus then it needs to make them suck. Just for the fun of it I drove a Lexus IS and wash shocked that the steering feel was indeed more like that of an old school BMW. Clearly Lexus wants to steal customers from BMW. What we end up with is a bunch of semi-autonomous boxes that all just have different styling and branding but feel almost the same. If this new 3 series isn’t significantly better, BMW will have a growing problem on their hands when the 2 series moves to front wheel drive. What else will be left for us other than used BMW’s. Nothing I say. |
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10-10-2018, 01:10 PM | #70 |
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Lol idiots said exact same shit with the 46 came out. Too big, too fat, ugly, tech laden etc.
Thing about e46ers these days is most of em are poor ass kids. They paid 13k. Let's not forget the CSL was SMG only (ie trash). Most of the guys who actually track em rip out the brakes, suspension, 6spd swap, engine mods, cage etc. driving experience doesn't even resemble a stock car at that point. Fact is it's "cool" to hate on the new stuff even though deep down everyone driving some clapped out old M3 knows their car is inferior.
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10-10-2018, 01:16 PM | #71 | |
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All the shitting on the 3 series for not having a manual tranny comes from the Western side of a small, round table full of grouches in the corner of a massive, massive pub full of people who care only about speck, lease payments and motorway stability. The BMW chap was simply picking on people who were picking on BMW. Interesting that the Alfa brigade are merely saying their prayers to give thanks that not every Guilia is exploding at the first corner and whilst their reliability may still suck mud, at least the car can cope with a gentle commute which is more than can be said for all the previous ones. Apparently, that makes the Guilia deadly competition (???). Audi drivers are just measuring speck, front tyre width and LCD screen size again, and all Merc drivers have to do is adjust their spectacles whenever a new one comes along. No car gets close to the meeja (and social meeja) frenzy of BMW. It's like Rolex issuing a new Submariner. Rolex used to leave decades between updates, because they simply weren't needed, but now they produce a new one on a regular moddle-year cycle to keep the leaseholders happy, get the out of the old one and into a new one with better speck, so they can have their nice new shiny. But still, despite the gnashing and wailing of teeth, every other watchmaker wants to have something like a Submariner in their line-up. And I thought the F10 was a good foil for the E39, much better than the previous E60 and seriously good looking. Here, everyone loved it. YMMV. |
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10-10-2018, 01:20 PM | #72 | |
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If the E46 was the king, as everyone says it was, why was I unable to sell my mint 2004 330i for any more than £2.5k? Hey, it's got a hydraulic steering rack in good condition and no PAS fluid leaks, isn't that worth at least £5k alone : )) |
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10-10-2018, 01:22 PM | #73 |
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10-10-2018, 01:30 PM | #74 | |
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I am certainly looking forward to what Cadillac is bringing forward, in the CT3/4, and maybe even the CT5.
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10-10-2018, 01:40 PM | #75 |
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Styling is definitely subjective, because I think the E90 looked liked crap and I loved the F30 the moment I saw it. They are nothing alike. The E92 looked much better then the E90. The G20 looks pretty good too, but have to see it in person to truly know.
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10-10-2018, 01:44 PM | #76 | |
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Look at this rear 3/4 view. The side profile and the rear end are almost identical. The main difference is the grille and front fascia. Which I admit is enough to make the car look different, but it's really just the front. It's easy to mistake an LCI E90 for an F30 for non-owners. There is a much bigger difference between the F30 and G30 than there is between the E90 and F30. |
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10-10-2018, 01:50 PM | #77 | ||||||
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10-10-2018, 01:50 PM | #78 | |
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2. Those are my thoughts and not arguments to a debate. 3. You can agree or disagree with my view. Either way i'm cool with it. |
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10-10-2018, 01:52 PM | #79 |
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My guess is that for every 3-er BMW sells to a purist, driving enthusiast, they sell 4 or 5 to people who don't pay attention to all that. How many F30s have been sold vs. how many of those owners are on forums like this?
At the end of the day, BMW is in the business of selling cars, not catering to niche performance enthusiasts. Despite all the moaning about not having a manual option on these forums...it was undoubtedly the right BUSINESS decision for BMW. Not to mention, there aren't any competitors in the segment that offered a manual in their most recent generations, so saying "no manual?? I'm buying an Alfa" is a bit of a non sequitur. (Giulia is auto only). Or to say you're going to Porsche...last I checked, the only 4-door Porsche STARTS at over $70k. Not exactly a direct competitor. If BMW can regain "king of the mountain" status among its competitors, they will see it as mission accomplished. And that doesn't mean they have to recreate an E46 to do it...in fact, if they did in fact recreate an E46, I'd guess that they WOULDN'T do well in comparos with the latest from Audi, MB, Lexus, etc...except maybe for the minor market segment of purists/enthusiasts. All that said, I see it is a positive that they have taken feedback into serious consideration in designing the G20. Just deal with the fact that they might not have checked all the boxes of YOUR feedback.
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10-10-2018, 01:52 PM | #80 | |
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Also, isn't that the LCI E90? Much closer in time to the F30. The pre-LCI E90 was particularly horrible.
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10-10-2018, 01:53 PM | #81 |
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I'll miss my F36
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10-10-2018, 01:56 PM | #82 | |
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I think a little M2GC next next gen G88 would cleanup!
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10-10-2018, 01:59 PM | #83 | |
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10-10-2018, 02:00 PM | #84 |
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"Quick thoughts:
Sometimes I wonder if the G20 whiners are real BMW fans." My point was not to bash BMW or the F30 but Klaus's statement. "First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don't feel how fast you are" To me that's not how BMW is going to silence the critics. My F30 does a lot of things. Good gas mileage, nice exterior/interior, nice engine/transmission, accurate steering, reliable and quick/fast. But the feeling—> (steering and chassis)has to be address in the G20 in ordered to silence the critics. |
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10-10-2018, 02:02 PM | #85 | ||
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My M235i 4 years ago at $51k MSRP with ED pricing, 0 down, when residuals was still high, and 7 MSDs was $555. This car will cost much more than that with options. And with higher residuals, and without the MSD, I can't see a well equipped M340i being less than $700 a month. But I hope I am wrong.
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10-10-2018, 02:04 PM | #86 | |
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10-10-2018, 02:06 PM | #87 | |
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but how exactly do you address steering feel with electric steering? you can fake heavier and lighter electric steering but at the end of the day.. its electric |
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