[raysspl]

I don't want to hear this shit anymore is cool & all but let's make sure North America gets manual

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by BMV///M3

That's just my guess. With residuals being low and MF's going up I wouldn't be surprised. Also it's a first year model with high demand

you were generalizing because a 330i will not be near that as it shouldn't. however m340i, as another member mentioned, could easily be there if not more. m340i will at least be $60k+ like you mentioned and the new model/high demand point as well. crazy, but i guess that's the way things are going.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I'd only consider M240i or M2 anyway..
its no surprise what yer describing theyve been doing it at the F30 level..
that is.. provide one performance variant of the model series
then lobotomize the rest of the variants but slap the BMW shield and M logos on them all

Yes.

BMW: You get an ///M, and you get an ///M, Everyone gets an "///M"

[TodmordenLad]

I'll reserve judgement until I've test driven the 6 cyl petrol version - then I'll be able to compare it with my current 440i with MPPSK and original RFTs, which is pretty woeful in the steering and suspension departments, as compared with BMW's of old.
BMWs which i have owned have become increasingly comfortable and compliant over the years in line with global demand and taste and I'd be very surprised if BMW has really made the G20 a hardcore enthusiast's machine in response to feedback from us enthusiasts. After all, they have the M cars for that market.
The G20 will probably drive a bit better than the F30 but I'll wager not by a significant margin. At the end of the day, they have global sales to worry about. Most drivers probably wouldn't notice the fact that the chassis is 50% stiffer or whatever than the outgoing model in everyday driving. Myself included, possibly

[praxis218]

Originally Posted by rjd598

you were generalizing because a 330i will not be near that as it shouldn't. however m340i, as another member mentioned, could easily be there if not more. m340i will at least be $60k plus like you mentioned and the new model/high demand point as well. crazy, but i guess that's the way things are going.

It's interesting BMW is making leases more expensive and also cutting 320i in the US at the same time. I see 20-30 of them on the road each week.

[THOR48]

I think folks need to go to a good driving course and learn how good paddle shifter trannies can be. I have huge amounts of fun and driving pleasure in my M3 and X5M with paddle shifters. Allows me to concentrate on all sorts of aspects of driving and quite precise. I must also add very fast shifts. I don't miss sticks & clutches that were awesome back then but not now.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by simnew

Stiffness translates into ride comfort because you don't get secondary oscillations from the body flexing and amplifying the original imperfection in the road surface. Simply physics. With a better platform, the suspension can work better and in a more pure way. Common knowledge and has been forever. But stiffness comes at a cost in money and or in weight.

a chassis is not an amplifier
body flex is not going to amplify oscillations unless its in resonance with the waveforms experienced from driving
BMW engineers would not allow the resonance to happen via their design modelling and testing
the stiff chassis will simply translate more vibration onto the suspension and tires

racecars are stiff allowing the system to be accurately controlled
saloons are cushy cause gramps doesnt want his arthritis to be aggravated everytime he gets in the car

[scrammer]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Define BMW DNA, remember many of us go back with BMW cars before some on this forum were even born.

I go back to 1970, 2000 New Class sedan.... the first BMW I have personal experience of. I'm amused at some of the statements on here, heard it all before, over and over.

BTW, the E9x models are only one 'snapshot' of modern BMW heritage, and they are not perfect by any means. Highly criticised cars, including by many long term BMW users.

Most get over all the negativities and get into the latest models.

Since you're talking about BMW DNA... How can they possibly bring out the new Z4 and not have an ///M version (and no manual) for what could be considered a true sports car!!!!

Yet, we have an ///M version X3, X4, X5 and X6 ... that's not the BMW DNA I grew up with. Furthermore, there's more to a great driving experience than the 0 to 60 time.

[khailuan]

Originally Posted by Tracus

Dude, I am a fan of my wife too. If the food is not good I would tell her. It doesn't mean I hate her...

I would tell my wife too lol ! Obviously I wouldn't hate her for that either.

Based on your analogy, you wouldn't go as far as saying that the new G20 is not good would you? At least not until the reviews are out I guess.

Cheers

[sq86]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Now I'm waiting his answer for the ones with a F31 that would like to upgrade to a better driving 3 serie wagon? And no i don't want a X3.

I'm torn about getting an F31 before it goes out of production or just forgo having a wagon. It won't have a larger engine nor manual so I'm out there. Not sure I want it more than I'd want a SUV. I still have a few more months to mull my mind.

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by cupojava

It's interesting BMW is making leases more expensive and also cutting 320i in the US at the same time. I see 20-30 of them on the road each week.

i hate the 320i, but yes it's a weird move on their part as it allows a new demographic to get into the brand. who knows.

[georgere]

I call this a bs. They say the same every time they release a new model or make an improvement to current models, like LCI. I bet this new 3er car will not beat their competitors in every category. maybe as a package, it will shine appeal to some, but if you break down every category such as steering, suspension, engine, sound, interior, entertainment tech, etc. it will loose some and maybe win some, just like today.

I don't know if people will break prestige stigma and buy more Cadillacs, but that Giulia- as soon as it proves reliable and sells some numbers, 3er will be history.

I think BMW must get real serious and not just release funny statements like that. Why previously this guy was ok to hear all this shit and now he is like tired and able to make a change?

And by the way, he only said the car is stiffer now and that they will improve interiors... there was nothing else so don't expect e46 break through here. We gonna get same old same old....

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by scrammer

Since you're talking about BMW DNA... How can they possibly bring out the new Z4 and not have an ///M version (and no manual) for what could be considered a true sports car!!!!

Yet, we have an ///M version X3, X4, X5 and X6 ... that's not the BMW DNA I grew up with. Furthermore, there's more to a great driving experience than the 0 to 60 time.

I see it this way, BMW is primarily in business to sell vehicles. Make money for shareholders. The 'DNA' however we define it, (not sure we really can over time), is only part of the success, will not dictate or stop the money making machine.

Markets dictate what you sell. I remember being at a business seminar where a very successful guy was asked to explain how he had made his fortune. Forget what he was selling (some specialised widgets), but he clearly stated "don't just expect to prosper on past success", he'd change to selling 'baked beans' if that made the company more money. The key was "adapt to the market".....

BMW went diesel, "sacrilege" was the cry… BMW went SUV, "sacrilege" was the cry... "We want more comfort" "sacrilege" IS the cry... If users don't want MT or Wagons, or the demand is so small, BMW will move on...

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by sq86

I'm torn about getting an F31 before it goes out of production or just forgo having a wagon. It won't have a larger engine nor manual so I'm out there. Not sure I want it more than I'd want a SUV. I still have a few more months to mull my mind.

Seem like Volvo has more interesting wagons than BMW. I am dreaming about a G81 with a 6 speed manual.

[scrammer]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I see it this way, BMW is primarily in business to sell vehicles. Make money for shareholders. The 'DNA' however we define it, (not sure we really can over time), is only part of the success, will not dictate or stop the money making machine.

Markets dictate what you sell. I remember being at a business seminar where a very successful guy was asked to explain how he had made his fortune. Forget what he was selling (some specialised widgets), but he clearly stated "don't just expect to prosper on past success", he'd change to selling 'baked beans' if that made the company more money. The key was "adapt to the market".....

BMW went diesel, "sacrilege" was the cry… BMW went SUV, "sacrilege" was the cry... "We want more comfort" "sacrilege" IS the cry... If users don't want MT or Wagons, or the demand is so small, BMW will move on...

I get it!

Business is run on three paradigms:
what are you best at, what are you passionate about, and what drives the economic engine.

It just seems that the passion is gone for sports cars regardless of profit.

and besides I don't really like baked beans

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by scrammer

I get it!

Business is run on three paradigms:
what are you best at, what are you passionate about, and what drives the economic engine.

It just seems that the passion is gone for sports cars regardless of profit.

and besides I don't really like baked beans

From my perspective, I observe the customers have changed as well. Many are now moving away from the driving experience as the key ingredient of car purchase. There has to be so much more. We are now seriously talking the whole package, infotainment integration is far higher up the list for many in the daily drive, over poor roads in congested conditions. Reality bites. Why do we need a highly honed chassis over broken roads, where the car is worse to drive than something with much more compliant suspension and all the negatives taken away?

Then there is the gearbox, MT in the daily grid of traffic flows... Driving time needs to be as relaxed as possible for many, all the creature comforts have more value than shifting gears. Steering... as long as it is precise, steers a good line and not too heavy, it is fine for most BMW users.

[cfm56d7b]

Well said. But now the car deserves a proper adaptive suspension which echoing his comments should not resemble by products of gastro intestinal efficiency.

[monte03carlo]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

the chassis is stiffer ok
but how exactly do you address steering feel with electric steering?
you can fake heavier and lighter electric steering but at the end of the day.. its electric

Most would say that Porsche has done a great job transitioning to electric steering.
Your right the chassis is ok but I should've said suspension.

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by MT4life

Lol, no one complained about the availability of a manual transmission.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by monte03carlo

Most would say that Porsche has done a great job transitioning to electric steering.
Your right the chassis is ok but I should've said suspension.

the s2000 and original nsx had electric power steering. BMW just didn't do it well the first time around, but they can improve (and it seems the G series cars have)

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by khailuan

I would tell my wife too lol ! Obviously I wouldn't hate her for that either.

Based on your analogy, you wouldn't go as far as saying that the new G20 is not good would you? At least not until the reviews are out I guess.

Cheers

True, I wouldn't say that is not good. How could I do that if I did not drive it yet?
But based on the looks, is not good for me. Fair?

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

“I do not want to hear that shit anymore.”

-- Well sir, we weren't the problem.

RIGHT!