[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Montaver

I wish the US had got the good options they get in the EU - M seats, Carbon roof, acoustic glass. But otherwise you are right - the g2x cars are the consummate all rounder.

I wish the US can get the ala carte menus of the Euro markets of yesteryears, so that I can pick a B48 with no power seat and no moonroof to get close to 3300lb and below $35k.

[LostInSpace]

With a 6MT. I'd think about buying one of those.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by LostInSpace

With a 6MT. I'd think about buying one of those.

I think 6MT works well with surging power band of past generations like E39/E46.

The new generations of turbo engine(I4/I6)with flat power band is better mated with ZF 8AT + auto rev match.

But hey if 6MT is another $1.5k of savings and extra 50+lb of weight loss I am all for it.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

BMW put eLSD into F-series non-M cars, so G-series non-M should have similar eLSD.

And check this out, the G20 330i can drift.

You can drift an open diff car. What you cannot do is get the same corner exit performance as a LSD.

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Do u find good use of the M sport differential in non-track driving conditions?

Yes, all of the time.

Originally Posted by bavarianride

For sure the 400whp definitely requires extra hardware assist like M sport differential. I think your non-track use case in the mountains(subject to inclement weather?) likely also can benefit from the extra hardware.

For a 250+HP 330i, the open diff + ADB work reasonably well on local cloverleafs and tight connectors and hilly terrains, even in recent stormy conditions.

An open diff hurts performance in all of those situations.

Originally Posted by toddwalton

But isn't that what DSC is for?

Again, not talking about those who are professional drivers on a closed course trying to eke out the very last drop of performance. For the average Joe commuting daily and having a little fun on backroads 5x a year.

Al I hear is how the 430 run circles around the 440 because of the weight difference and how amazing it is on highway ramps. As if anyone is cornering at 10/10ths. An open diff makes a difference at 7/10ths. and DSC is not going to make up for an open diff. It will help mask the lack of an LSD by slowing you down so the open diff doesn't have as big an impact.

And please, just stop with the whole "traffic" argument. You might only driving surface streets in Manhattan during rush hour with only a handful of times per year to use the extra HP. For the rest of us there are plenty of opportunities to use the B58.

[LostInSpace]

Hell, even in the city I go out of my way to find less used, no cop routes where I can wind it out.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Dan B

An open diff hurts performance in all of those situations.

As much as u like to think that M340i drivers maximizing traction on the inside wheel to exit a turn and/or heavy braking into a turn thanks to sports M differential, I really haven't seen that many M340i pulling those moves, even with no cars in front of them in the cloverleafs. I do appreciate them respectfully sharing the public roads with me.

So my 330i base is perfectly ok rotating in my open diff + ADB that works great modulating the slips going at 7/10-8/10.

What I do see a lot is the M340i blasting off in straight lines against the Tesla's, so u do get that (10/10 on straights) right.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

As much as u like to think that M340i drivers maximizing traction on the inside wheel to exit a turn and/or heavy braking into a turn thanks to sports M differential, I really haven't seen that many M340i pulling those moves, even with no cars in front of them in the cloverleafs. I do appreciate them respectfully sharing the public roads with me.

So my 330i base is perfectly ok rotating in my open diff + ADB that works great modulating the slips going at 7/10-8/10.

What I do see a lot is the M340i blasting off in straight lines against the Tesla's, so u do get that (10/10 on straights) right.

You are missing the point. BMW does a good job with ADB but it is a crutch used to alleviate some of the downside of the open diff.

Add a LSD and it would be night and day for someone who lovers cloverleafs as much as you do.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Dan B

You are missing the point. BMW does a good job with ADB but it is a crutch used to alleviate some of the downside of the open diff.

Add a LSD and it would be night and day for someone who lovers cloverleafs as much as you do.

You should try 70 to 20 threshold braking on a 330i RWD with open diff + ADB + standard brakes, u may be pleasantly surprised, at least it won't lift u out of your seat.

The point really is to know the capabilities of the tool and make the most use out of them in your use cases.

[blue_seather]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Are we really saying that the typical 45-65 year old executive who can afford such a luxury car is drifting?

4 series - luxury? And I'm 29, for one, what are you talking about?!

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

4 series - luxury? And I'm 29, for one, what are you talking about?!

BMW is a luxury brand, not sure why anyone needs clarification on that. An M440i Gran Coupe with typical options like XDrive, Premium, etc. is upwards of $70,000.

It's great that you're successful at 29, I was too, go us, but the average age of owners per BMW stats is 43 and the median is 56. Most of the regulars you speak to in this forum are 45-65.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

4 series - luxury? And I'm 29, for one, what are you talking about?!

4 series is a luxury car. That’s not even a question. BMW is a luxury brand. I took my M440i GC for a trip around the city and suburbs yesterday, and it was incredibly comfortable and fun to drive. It’s quiet, refined, and an absolute ball to carve up a mountain road, but it is also at home on the highway eating up miles.

It is literally a Luxury sport touring car.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

4 series - luxury? And I'm 29, for one, what are you talking about?!

He did say "typical". And yes, BMW is primarily a sports luxury manufacturer.

[blue_seather]

BMW is a premium brand and the 4 series is in the "executive" class of vehicles. I'd consider luxury, at the very least, a 5 series. Rolls Royce, Bentley, etc. are true luxury vehicles. BMW 4 series is the best car I've ever owned yet but it's not "that" special. Not that expensive either, to be honest. Leasing makes it so that the average person can very much afford a barebones 420i. It's just that it won't be the smartest of decisions to make.

A car like the M440i specifically, is best suited for a younger individual who will definitely, for better or worse, make the best of its power and capabilities.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

A car like the M440i specifically, is best suited for a younger individual who will definitely, for better or worse, make the best of its power and capabilities.

This may be the funniest thing I’ve read on this forum in the last 3 years.

[blue_seather]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

This may be the funniest thing I’ve read on this forum in the last 3 years.

And how so? I'm not talking about buying the car new but rather 3-4 years old. I know quite a few people with M340i and M440is and only one of them is above 30 years old. He has a wife and kids and finds that he doesn't even drive the M440i and it's kind of a mistake. It's a lot more practical for him to drive the SUV with his family inside on the weekends and the M440i is just sitting there.

My country is literally filled with BMW 3 and 4 series, especially between 5 and 15 years old, and the biggest demographic for them are 25-year old (at the maximum) "drifters". That's probably the most popular vehicle out here and half the car crashes you see on the news have one of those in it, kind of the Ford Mustang gig over there in the US. And I'm starting to see a lot of second hand G20s out on the streets now too. And that's a country with a $14k average salary. I can't imagine that in the US where the average salary is literally more than 4 times that, the cars are not only cheaper but there's no 20%+ VAT on them too, an M340i/M440i is a vehicle for the top 1% of well accomplished gentlemen in their 60s

So, as to amend my previous statement - the M440i is definitely not for a family guy/gal that needs to haul camping gear out back, a baby seat on the second row and drives calmly so as to not make their other half sick out on the road. Which leaves out either an older person, whose kids are already grown up, that needs to overcompensate for something as he will most probably never push it even near the limit indeed, or a younger person (sub-40) who either has another larger vehicle too, or still has no kids, and WILL definitely make use of the power, even if he's sat in the middle of Manhattan.

So, case in point - laugh all you want but what I'm trying to illustrate here is that whoever is out shopping for an M340i/M440i, WILL make use of its power. You feeling like you can't, settling for a 430i, is perfectly fine. Just stop forcing your opinion onto others, as, in the end, it's just that - a personal opinion. It's as far detached from reality as it could possibly be.

[clifftr]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

And how so? I'm not talking about buying the car new but rather 3-4 years old. I know quite a few people with M340i and M440is and only one of them is above 30 years old. He has a wife and kids and finds that he doesn't even drive the M440i and it's kind of a mistake. It's a lot more practical for him to drive the SUV with his family inside on the weekends and the M440i is just sitting there.

My country is literally filled with BMW 3 and 4 series, especially between 5 and 15 years old, and the biggest demographic for them are 25-year old (at the maximum) "drifters". That's probably the most popular vehicle out here and half the car crashes you see on the news have one of those in it, kind of the Ford Mustang gig over there in the US. And I'm starting to see a lot of second hand G20s out on the streets now too. And that's a country with a $14k average salary. I can't imagine that in the US where the average salary is literally more than 4 times that, the cars are not only cheaper but there's no 20%+ VAT on them too, an M340i/M440i is a vehicle for the top 1% of well accomplished gentlemen in their 60s

So, as to amend my previous statement - the M440i is definitely not for a family guy/gal that needs to haul camping gear out back, a baby seat on the second row and drives calmly so as to not make their other half sick out on the road. Which leaves out either an older person, whose kids are already grown up, that needs to overcompensate for something as he will most probably never push it even near the limit indeed, or a younger person (sub-40) who either has another larger vehicle too, or still has no kids, and WILL definitely make use of the power, even if he's sat in the middle of Manhattan.

So, case in point - laugh all you want but what I'm trying to illustrate here is that whoever is out shopping for an M340i/M440i, WILL make use of its power. You feeling like you can't, settling for a 430i, is perfectly fine. Just stop forcing your opinion onto others, as, in the end, it's just that - a personal opinion. It's as far detached from reality as it could possibly be.

I am in my early 30s, have 2 boys (6 and 8 yrs) and drive a 2022 M440Xi Grand Coupe so i don't understand the young/old classification or having kids/not having kids. I could have bought an m3 competition, the reason I picked an m440xi GC is that it has a hatchback trunk. I can easily store hockey bags, kids stuff in my trunk and also have enough space in the rear seats for kids to sit. Also it is super fast, as fast as the previous generation m3. I hit 0-60 at 3.9 seconds, lower than BMW's advertised 4.4 seconds. The B58 engine sounds great, exhaust sounds great. Definitely puts a smile on my boys' face.. What else you want from a car...

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

BMW is a premium brand and the 4 series is in the "executive" class of vehicles. I'd consider luxury, at the very least, a 5 series. Rolls Royce, Bentley, etc. are true luxury vehicles. BMW 4 series is the best car I've ever owned yet but it's not "that" special. Not that expensive either, to be honest. Leasing makes it so that the average person can very much afford a barebones 420i. It's just that it won't be the smartest of decisions to make.

A car like the M440i specifically, is best suited for a younger individual who will definitely, for better or worse, make the best of its power and capabilities.

A Bentley or Rolls Royce would be a premium luxury vehicle.

I would agree though, that as you move up to a 5 series it becomes more of a luxury vehicle, but a well optioned 4 series is also luxury. A 3 might be pushing it a bit but barely. At the minimum it is a really nice sedan. I have not looked at one in a while so I could be underestimating it.


I thought you were overestimating the average salary but you really close.

Source: Forbes

Age Weekly Earnings Annual Wage Average Hourly Wage
16 to 19 years old $611 $31,772 $15.28
20 to 24 years old $737 $38,324 $18.43
25 to 34 years old $1,018 $52,936 $25.45
35 to 44 years old $1,223 $63,596 $30.58
45 to 54 years old $1,239 $64,428 $30.98
55 to 64 years old $1,218 $63,336 $30.45
65 years and older $1,042 $54,184 $26.05

Sorry, not going to spend the time to fix the columns.

[LostInSpace]

I consider 3 and 4 to be in the "near luxury" class. I drive 3's nowadays because they're a good value, particularly in m40 form, and engaging.

I don't want a bunch of cash tied up in an 8 Series, for example, which is a luxury car. Cars don't mean that much to me anymore.

The old guys drive 3's and 4's as well. I drive whatever I want to drive.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by LostInSpace

I consider 3 and 4 to be in the "near luxury" class. I drive 3's nowadays because they're a good value, particularly in m40 form, and engaging.

I don't want a bunch of cash tied up in an 8 Series, for example, which is a luxury car. Cars don't mean that much to me anymore.

The old guys drive 3's and 4's as well. I drive whatever I want to drive.

No “near-luxury” about it. This is a $70k car.

There are more luxurious cars out there, but make no mistake… the 4 GC is a luxury auto.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

And how so? I'm not talking about buying the car new but rather 3-4 years old. I know quite a few people with M340i and M440is and only one of them is above 30 years old. He has a wife and kids and finds that he doesn't even drive the M440i and it's kind of a mistake. It's a lot more practical for him to drive the SUV with his family inside on the weekends and the M440i is just sitting there.

My country is literally filled with BMW 3 and 4 series, especially between 5 and 15 years old, and the biggest demographic for them are 25-year old (at the maximum) "drifters". That's probably the most popular vehicle out here and half the car crashes you see on the news have one of those in it, kind of the Ford Mustang gig over there in the US. And I'm starting to see a lot of second hand G20s out on the streets now too. And that's a country with a $14k average salary. I can't imagine that in the US where the average salary is literally more than 4 times that, the cars are not only cheaper but there's no 20%+ VAT on them too, an M340i/M440i is a vehicle for the top 1% of well accomplished gentlemen in their 60s

So, as to amend my previous statement - the M440i is definitely not for a family guy/gal that needs to haul camping gear out back, a baby seat on the second row and drives calmly so as to not make their other half sick out on the road. Which leaves out either an older person, whose kids are already grown up, that needs to overcompensate for something as he will most probably never push it even near the limit indeed, or a younger person (sub-40) who either has another larger vehicle too, or still has no kids, and WILL definitely make use of the power, even if he's sat in the middle of Manhattan.

So, case in point - laugh all you want but what I'm trying to illustrate here is that whoever is out shopping for an M340i/M440i, WILL make use of its power. You feeling like you can't, settling for a 430i, is perfectly fine. Just stop forcing your opinion onto others, as, in the end, it's just that - a personal opinion. It's as far detached from reality as it could possibly be.

If you wanted a 3-4 year old Civic Type R, you should have bought one, it's only $34,000. Half the price of the "it's not a luxury car" 4 Series.

[den110]

Ok, I am 58, leased a 2021 m440i 3 years ago and bought it out after the lease. Totally love the performance of the car. Added a piggyback tune, AWE exhaust, pedal controller, Bimmertech amp, subwoofer box and amp in trunk and tinted the windows.

I guess I am one of the few "old" drivers out there...

Don't care about gas mileage. It's a BMW.

[Montaver]

Is the 3/4 that luxury though? Compared to a Macan for example I’m not so sure. You can’t even get nappa leather in the US. It is a nice balance though, I like that my dog can roll around in the back and not scratch the sensatec.