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      03-28-2019, 08:39 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
That is, unless we're talking about BMW "leather" in the lower number series cars. I wish the $1500 leather I paid for in my 2-series actually smelled like leather instead of plastic. I'd be surprised if the G20's leather is any different. Other brands actually have leather that smells real and makes getting into the car a pleasure.
Vernasca leather feels worlds better than Dakota.
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      03-28-2019, 08:40 PM   #90
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For some odd reason leather is associated with luxury/comfort. As if going cloth is interpreted as "going cheap" personally feel it's more comfortable plus durable. With all this said, I chose leather
Well...leather is a real material that is aesthetically beautiful, nice to the touch, nice smelling, and ages well with proper care. It can be artistic too as so many different hides, textures, stitching patterns, etc. are possible. Only downside is having to clean and condition it several times a year.

Cloth is made in a factory.

Which sounds more luxurious?
Missed the part on leather was my choice, sorry no detail. Downside of leather will always be it wears like, well you know what. Great scent for approximately 6 months, then bye bye. Will I choose leather yet again?? Of coarse I will.
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      03-28-2019, 08:40 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
That is, unless we're talking about BMW "leather" in the lower number series cars. I wish the $1500 leather I paid for in my 2-series actually smelled like leather instead of plastic. I'd be surprised if the G20's leather is any different. Other brands actually have leather that smells real and makes getting into the car a pleasure.
Vernasca leather feels worlds better than Dakota.
But how does it smell?? The way leather smells and looks is 99% the reason it exists in cars. If we're talking comfort, cloth wins all day. Running your fingers across it doesn't matter since you will (hopefully) not be driving naked.
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      03-28-2019, 08:42 PM   #92
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I setup one myself since I liked the Dravit Grey color and came out to roughly 60k for a M340i xDrive.

I'm surprised by the pricing considering... for 5k more I can actually get a lightly optioned and new AMG C63 or a Giulia QV. This is extremely pricey.

Hm...
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      03-28-2019, 08:43 PM   #93
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Have you somehow not owned a BMW? I'd imagine the amount of processing Dakota leather gets is wildly more involved than just knitting a fabric out of actual cotton and wool.

If we were talking about an aniline leather in a Ferrari or Roller, sure, it's nice and will patina. Outside of a flame thrower or a Sharpie, you aren't getting patina out of BMW "leather." My tartan seats laugh at the very thought.

Plus heated seats and cloth is the greatest thing ever. Nice not having to heat up Dead Bessie.
Doesn't matter. You are referring to the treating process which is of course done in a factory. But at the end of the day leather comes from a real hide!

I agree BMW Dakota isn't the nicest feeling stuff but it sure beats the hell out of cloth and Sensatec. Nowadays, aside from the 2-series, Vernasca leather is stanadard which feels MUCH nicer than Dakota. And on the topic of temperature, are ventilated seats even an option with cloth?

There's no replacement for real leather in my book.
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      03-28-2019, 08:46 PM   #94
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But how does it smell?? The way leather smells and looks is 99% the reason it exists in cars. If we're talking comfort, cloth wins all day. Running your fingers across it doesn't matter since you will (hopefully) not be driving naked.
I'd like to remind you that cloth ages terribly when it comes to smell.

Sometimes you can't even do anything about it, like when it's hot as hell out and you get sweaty or you just worked out at the gym. That sweat and odors are more difficult to get out of cloth than leather. With the latter you'll just get a surface that becomes progressively shiny and will need a quick cleaning/conditioning to be restored.
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      03-28-2019, 08:55 PM   #95
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Fully loaded m340i is m3 territory in cost
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      03-28-2019, 08:56 PM   #96
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Yikes, you can get a NEW M3 for cheaper
fixed.

You can find new ones on the lot right now for cheaper after negotiating. I negotiated my former M3 stripper down to 57k (new) after incentives.
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      03-28-2019, 08:57 PM   #97
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I really see no reason why anyone needs to build a 70k 340i. Are you selecting every damn option available? To each his own, I suppose, but you should easily be able to get one in around 57k
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      03-28-2019, 09:07 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
But how does it smell?? The way leather smells and looks is 99% the reason it exists in cars. If we're talking comfort, cloth wins all day. Running your fingers across it doesn't matter since you will (hopefully) not be driving naked.
I'd like to remind you that cloth ages terribly when it comes to smell.

Sometimes you can't even do anything about it, like when it's hot as hell out and you get sweaty or you just worked out at the gym. That sweat and odors are more difficult to get out of cloth than leather. With the latter you'll just get a surface that becomes progressively shiny and will need a quick cleaning/conditioning to be restored.
This is true, but I keep a Seat Armour seat cover in the car at all times for those moments, even with my leather seats. Great product. Basically a cotton terry towel with a slit that allows it to slip over the head rest with ease. I also won't get in my cars with dirty clothes or without freshly washed hands, but I admit I'm rather special. . The people who buy my used cars are lucky.
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      03-28-2019, 09:29 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Rschin2 View Post
I really see no reason why anyone needs to build a 70k 340i. Are you selecting every damn option available? To each his own, I suppose, but you should easily be able to get one in around 57k
Not to mention who actually pays full sticker on a high-volume series production car? A $57k car should sell at ~$50K in the real world after a 12% discount, which is a pretty fair discount to both the dealer and buyer. Anyone bitching about the price simply needs to learn a lesson in both patience and negotiation. BMW builds these discount margins into their book keeping and is certainly ready to sell at a reasonable discount as soon as the initial wave of eager buyers start to disappear.
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      03-28-2019, 09:36 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Have you somehow not owned a BMW? I'd imagine the amount of processing Dakota leather gets is wildly more involved than just knitting a fabric out of actual cotton and wool.

If we were talking about an aniline leather in a Ferrari or Roller, sure, it's nice and will patina. Outside of a flame thrower or a Sharpie, you aren't getting patina out of BMW "leather." My tartan seats laugh at the very thought.

Plus heated seats and cloth is the greatest thing ever. Nice not having to heat up Dead Bessie.
Doesn't matter. You are referring to the treating process which is of course done in a factory. But at the end of the day leather comes from a real hide!

I agree BMW Dakota isn't the nicest feeling stuff but it sure beats the hell out of cloth and Sensatec. Nowadays, aside from the 2-series, Vernasca leather is stanadard which feels MUCH nicer than Dakota. And on the topic of temperature, are ventilated seats even an option with cloth?

There's no replacement for real leather in my book.
If the F30 had Vernasca, it was still just horrible. I'd be shocked if anything but the seat centers were actual leather. Bolsters, sides and backs were clearly vinyl. And to me, vinyl is worse than proper cloth. So cover it all in cloth, rather than bits here and there in waxed, stamped leather and a bunch of plastic.

Plus sporty cars work great with cloth. I'd always pick the cloth option on M3's over their leather. The old 991 R had incredible cloth seats. Miata cloth has always been nicer than their BMW-ish leather.

My M Coupe had semi aniline seats and door inserts, but most of the center console was more of a waxed leather. Still pretty good. But Mein Got I wouldn't go back to leather for TX summers. Even ventilated leather is the devil compared to cloth in triple digit weather. And clearly sitting on leather on long trips is hotter than cloth.

If I could spec a nice veg tan Sepici leather or some Horween horse hide, I'd probably reconsider things, but the half ass things that BMW puts in anything under six figures is easy not to miss. Even the Audi alcantara in S cars is pretty cool compared to leather and breathes much better too. Kind of a shame it only comes in black, but still not bad.
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      03-28-2019, 09:40 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
This is true, but I keep a Seat Armour seat cover in the car at all times for those moments, even with my leather seats. Great product. Basically a cotton terry towel with a slit that allows it to slip over the head rest with ease. I also won't get in my cars with dirty clothes or without freshly washed hands, but I admit I'm rather special. . The people who buy my used cars are lucky.
Loll you sound just like me! My clothes must be clean and my hands must be washed. No eating or drinking inside. Dash and IP get hit with Meguiar's detailer spray every few days.

I use a towel after the gym but it doesn't cover the back. I'll look into that!
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      03-28-2019, 09:41 PM   #102
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$65k for a slushbox with vague steering feel. No thanks! Lightly used F80/82 with MT is the way to go if you are in the market.
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      03-28-2019, 09:43 PM   #103
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If the F30 had Vernasca, it was still just horrible. I'd be shocked if anything but the seat centers were actual leather. Bolsters, sides and backs were clearly vinyl. And to me, vinyl is worse than proper cloth. So cover it all in cloth, rather than bits here and there in waxed, stamped leather and a bunch of plastic.

Plus sporty cars work great with cloth. I'd always pick the cloth option on M3's over their leather. The old 991 R had incredible cloth seats. Miata cloth has always been nicer than their BMW-ish leather.

My M Coupe had semi aniline seats and door inserts, but most of the center console was more of a waxed leather. Still pretty good. But Mein Got I wouldn't go back to leather for TX summers. Even ventilated leather is the devil compared to cloth in triple digit weather. And clearly sitting on leather on long trips is hotter than cloth.

If I could spec a nice veg tan Sepici leather or some Horween horse hide, I'd probably reconsider things, but the half ass things that BMW puts in anything under six figures is easy not to miss. Even the Audi alcantara in S cars is pretty cool compared to leather and breathes much better too. Kind of a shame it only comes in black, but still not bad.
Agree with everything you said. And yeah the F30 just sucked in every metric, the interior included. The brown Dakota on my E90 looks beautiful and has been maintained immaculately. That car's interior as a whole was just built to a different standard.

The plaid cloth pattern on some of the Golfs and 911s looks neat. I suppose cloth can be done right if it's from a high-end manufacturer. But maybe it's my OCD tendencies that I obsess over what I feel are "real" materials. Leather, woods, and metal inside a car's cabin get me off.
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      03-28-2019, 09:44 PM   #104
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Yikes, you can get a used M3 for cheaper
Or a brand new M2C
Yeah this price point is going to make this car be on the lots for awhile
My 2017 RWD 340i was just about loaded at $62,500. Just built a fairly loaded (similarly equipped) RWD M340I for $63,700. And this one has the new diff plus remote start, which wasn't available on F30,

Why is everyone freaking out about the price?

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      03-28-2019, 09:48 PM   #105
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At 65-66k the M340 is pretty much fully loaded. A fully loaded M3 is 82k with DCT or 79k with manual so that's still a big difference.
The G80 M3 fully loaded will be definitely more than 82k so that difference will only get higher

Comparing a fully loaded M340 to a stock F80 M3 is useless bc it's not the same thing, then you are sacrificing some comfort or tech features for something else. Also comparing it to a used F80 is pretty pointless . . You can find a used Porsche 911 for even less . . Maybe that's a better buy then.
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      03-28-2019, 09:50 PM   #106
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So this is as fast as new X3M

Hmmm makes you wonder what an extra 120hp will do for M3 with AWD next year.
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      03-28-2019, 09:52 PM   #107
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That's tough to swallow. My 2015 335 was $55,500 and had everything but lane departure package. As mentioned above, for ~$65k I'm looking at a 1-2 year old CPO M3 or a M550 or something similar
New M550i *starts* at $74,450. Hell, that doesn't even include enhanced BT...
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      03-28-2019, 10:03 PM   #108
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$65k for a slushbox with vague steering feel. No thanks! Lightly used F80/82 with MT is the way to go if you are in the market.
So you've driven the new M340i? That's awesome, tell us about it.
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      03-28-2019, 10:28 PM   #109
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$70k loaded and no option for Merino leather...
And it is still a 3er. It's like spending thousands on Swarovski jewelry but your girl still wants a diamond...
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      03-28-2019, 10:33 PM   #110
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That's tough to swallow. My 2015 335 was $55,500 and had everything but lane departure package. As mentioned above, for ~$65k I'm looking at a 1-2 year old CPO M3 or a M550 or something similar
New M550i *starts* at $74,450. Hell, that doesn't even include enhanced BT...
What is enhanced BT? Get m550 and enjoy. 3er is always a 3er and will never reach the comfort, style, and prestige of a 5er.
For me, I'd get used F80 while the prices are low and cars are practically new and under warranty. M340 will not beat m or 5 series. Not worth the money in my opinion. But you vote with your money go pay 65k for a 3er with 380hp and enhanced BT.
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