[G30M]

guys i have a 550 and the tire roar is also very bad on certain roads

German roads and other roads are just different

when i need to carry stuff i use a 2007 Sienna

[vadimo]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

Hi everyone! I'm an owner of a Skoda Superb 3 facelift MY21 L&K 272 PS, with all of its bells and whistles. When I was buying it brand new 2 years and a half ago, I was looking at a G20 330i xDrive as an alternative but it was smaller and more cramped, had to get it with little to no extras for the price of the Skoda and - the most deciding factor of them all - it was slower (5.1 vs 5.7 to 62 mph).

Now, I'm in a little bit of a dilemma. I intend to keep the Superb for a little over a year more at best so I've started looking already. I might wait for the Mk. 4 Superb but I somehow doubt it will be any better than the Mk. 3. The current gen Audi alternatives seem too old at this point and the S4/S5 are diesels which make no sense for my driving. On Mercedes's side, the CLA feels like it's in the same segment as my previous car - a Skoda Fabia, and the new C43 looks too cheaply made inside for my taste. This leaves me, yet again, with BMW, though this time I've prepared to stretch my budget a bit to an M340i or an M440i GC.

What's troubling me is that all extras accounted for, it's still about 35% more expensive than the Superb as new, and I want to make sure that those 35% will be money well spent. I'm about to test drive an M440i GC in a couple of days but I wanted to check if any of you guys have some, if any, impressions, perhaps even long-term ones.

I wonder how the ride quality will compare, most of all. I'm used to the Superb riding like a boat with the DCC in Comfort. The suspension is very hard to settle, even sometimes comically so, and it's also quite [...]

Hey, M340i owner and wife has Skoda Karoq from new, now 5 years old.

Skoda, nice interior, the 1.5 petrol is poky enough and great handling/comfort BUT;

1. 3 faults after 3 years of ownership, thank god I extended warranty to 5
2. I tried both dealers around me, all very cut and dry attitude, it is cheaper brand so you get what you pay for
3. Every time I had fault i have to fight for my case with service advisor to get it looked at even after I took videos of problems
4. Service costs higher than BMW, yes even on Skoda forum members agreed 😀

Sorry to say but we will not be getting another Skoda.

You get what you pay for, it is true!

[HighlandPete]

Reading this thread... I'm seeing a 5-series (540i) fitting more closely with the OP's comments. Don't rule out a test drive, to know whether the 3 or 5 is more your kind of motor.

Originally Posted by vadimo

[*]Service costs higher than BMW, yes even on Skoda forum members agreed ��

Strange service costs for me on my last Superb and Rapid were about half BMW's cost at Skoda

[Charlie (Wessex)]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

I'm an owner of a Skoda Superb 3 facelift MY21 L&K 272 PS, with all of its bells and whistles. When I was buying it brand new 2 years and a half ago............
Now, I'm in a little bit of a dilemma. I intend to keep the Superb for a little over a year more at best so I've started looking already.

If you've bought it, why not just keep it? Seems by far the most sensible thing esp as the G20/1 is nothing like a Superb (Estate). You'll save yourself a pretty packet too.

Don't want to get all sanctimonious about things, but....

[G30M]

blue_seather

how did the M340i compare with your Superb?

[blue_seather]

So my test drive had to be postponed by quite a bit and only today did I manage to drive some odd 30 miles in an M440i 2-door coupe with 19" RFTs.

I honestly expected it to be worse than it was for some reason. Here are my thoughts:

1. Drivetrain - The biggest positive of them all is the engine. I somehow doubted that I would feel much of a difference between how the Superb and the M440i accelerated but I was wrong. It's not a world of difference but still... I also enjoyed how the torque felt and the overall sound of the engine too. The gearbox was definitely slower to react than the DSG. However, it seemed composed and behaved in traffic where the DSG often does not. A 50/50 toss here for me. About the xDrive - I think it did its job because at no point whatsoever could I notice that this car was built on a RWD platform. Didn't have a proper twisty road available to fully test it but it felt quite grippy and stable while cornering.

2. Suspension - The aspect I was the most afraid of actually turned out to be quite bearable. I barely noticed a difference between Comfort, Sport and Adaptive - might have just as well been my imagination. It handled minor road imperfections quite nicely and "luxuriously", even pavement. However, larger bumps were pretty harsh. While the Superb would absorb them and then carry on to bounce uncontrollably for a second or two, the M440i vibrated so hard that I literally jumped in my seat. I found myself detaching from it on at least 2-3 occasions during my one hour test drive. Could be a lot worse and I wonder whether the Gran Coupe somehow makes it better.

3. Sound insulation - Second largest positive compared to the Superb with one caveat. The cabin was insulated quite nicely, even to the point where when I revved the otherwise unbelievably quite engine in S transmission mode, it felt as if I was hearing the noises over a pair of earplugs - it was that weirdly deafened by the insulation. Road noise was maybe marginally better than the Superb and hopefully with non-RFTs it's even better. However, wind noise above 60 mph was quite bad. I think the car didn't have acoustic windows and them being frameless might play a part too but in the Superb I have to be moving at 90 mph at a minimum to experience such wind noise.

4. Infotainment - I really appreciated the physical swivel, which helped me a lot to navigate through Android Auto and the various menus while driving. The touchscreen itself was more inconvenient, though, being so far up and back. Overall, however, I didn't really like the look and feel of iDrive 7. The software looked outdated, the central screen was too small for my liking (difficult to read) and the digital instruments were simply awful. I think I'd enjoy iDrive 8 much better, though.

5. Seating - My biggest gripe with this car. I expected the leather in the regular seats to be more comfortable than in the Superb which is notorious for its pretty hard seats but it felt exactly the same. The extendable thigh support was useless to me as with my lower seating position my thighs were way higher than it to ever rest myself upon it. It was actually more comfortable to have it completely contracted but even then the seats were way too narrow width-wise. The sides of my bottom were touching the bolsters at all times and I never felt the seat completely flat below me, and I'm rather skinny. I can only imagine this won't be very comfortable on longer rides. Wonder how the sport seats would feel but they lack the red I really like and take away even more space from the second row which is my next point.

6. Dimensions - As far as the second row seats go, for obvious reasons I haven't really tested them in the coupe I drove but rather on a GC in the showroom. With me being 6'3", only a smaller woman or a child could ever be comfortable behind me. In the Superb, I can easily stretch my legs behind my own seating position. That's quite shocking to me, especially knowing the outer dimensions of the car, but it's not troubling me all that much, to be honest. All this lost interior space obviously went into the hood of the car. It's a huge part of what you see when you're driving it and it felt pretty weird for me, not being used to it. Overall size and maneuverability - feels the same size as the Superb (I was afraid it would have too much of a small car feel) but the turning radius is noticeably worse, for some odd reason.

7. Misc extras - Obviously, I couldn't test out the lights, the lasers, the interior ambient lighting and such during the day, but I was very pleased with the 360 parking camera which I couldn't option in the Superb. I also enjoyed the heads up display which the Superb is lacking as an extra, maybe even more so as the iDrive 7 digital instruments were horrendous. The driving assistance also felt quite good and easy to dis/engage - slightly more refined than the Skoda's and it starts and stops in traffic by itself which is a godsend. The Harmon Kardon was a complete disappointment - sounds just as flat and bass-lacking as the Canton in the Skoda, if not more so - expected way more. I know a lot of reviewers complain about the thick steering wheel and the general lack of feedback from it but I liked it more than the Skoda's - felt very electronically, as if playing a video game - quite fun for me.

8. Overall feel - The dashboard felt quite driver-oriented and massive which is definitely largely impractical but somehow that felt really good. Felt more modern on the inside than the Superb too (which is technically a model from 2015) but seems a bit lacking in comparison to other competitors, although I think iDrive 8 fixes much of this. It also felt of quite a high quality - a tiny bit better than the Superb and miles ahead of the likes of Mercedes. Hopefully that's not perceived quality only as I hate squeaks and creaks, the likes of which I've had to service on the Superb once or twice. Outside the car has a really nice stance in person, more than photos do it justice. Somehow I don't mind the front grill anymore, especially in black and with a plate slapped on top. After looking at the car for a bit now, the 3 series LCI looks outdated to me. The Superb looked outdated too after finishing up the test drive. That's probably the last BMW design I'll ever like with the Neue Klasse coming up soon, taking inspiration from that horrendous concept they showed at CES.

[Jimbon1973]

Without meaning to sound or be rude- it seems pretty clear that you don't want the BMW as the Skoda is so good and almost everything the BMW does seems to get slated by you?
I've driven both and my perception is that the Skoda is a cheaper, less good alternative that does a lot of things well, just not as well as the higher quality BMW.
Value wise the Skoda wins hands down.
Quality & enjoyment wise, the BMW wins hands down.
I guess your conundrum is to work out which of those things is more important?

Originally Posted by Jimbon1973

Without meaning to sound or be rude- it seems pretty clear that you don't want the BMW as the Skoda is so good and almost everything the BMW does seems to get slated by you?
I've driven both and my perception is that the Skoda is a cheaper, less good alternative that does a lot of things well, just not as well as the higher quality BMW.
Value wise the Skoda wins hands down.
Quality & enjoyment wise, the BMW wins hands down.
I guess your conundrum is to work out which of those things is more important?

I had Seat and Skoda for over 20 years but fancied a change... after just 18 months BMW ownership I am looking to go back to Skoda with a Kodiaq vRs ...

Much better support from both dealers and Skoda UK, not the BMW "do not give a toss" attitude which I have been getting. I find them more comfortable, lots more room, and everything works as it should even the radio (which mine is crap but as it was OK on the day, tough nothing wrong! ) .. plus running costs way cheaper..

Never buy another BMW based on the quality of service dealers and BMW give when you get an issue, nothing was too much trouble from Seat/Skoda dealers or the UK HQ's ..

[Jimbon1973]

Originally Posted by stuarttunstall

I had Seat and Skoda for over 20 years but fancied a change... after just 18 months BMW ownership I am looking to go back to Skoda with a Kodiaq vRs ...

Much better support from both dealers and Skoda UK, not the BMW "do not give a toss" attitude which I have been getting. I find them more comfortable, lots more room, and everything works as it should even the radio (which mine is crap but as it was OK on the day, tough nothing wrong! ) .. plus running costs way cheaper..

Never buy another BMW based on the quality of service dealers and BMW give when you get an issue, nothing was too much trouble from Seat/Skoda dealers or the UK HQ's ..

I'm lucky in that I deal with a BMW dealer here in Devon that I've used for a number of years to buy minis for our work fleet from. Nothing's an issue, things are sorted within days.

Each to their own, but you'd have to drag me out of the M340i to get into a Skoda i'm afraid!

[Bianchi Dave]

Originally Posted by stuarttunstall

I had Seat and Skoda for over 20 years but fancied a change... after just 18 months BMW ownership I am looking to go back to Skoda with a Kodiaq vRs ...

Much better support from both dealers and Skoda UK, not the BMW "do not give a toss" attitude which I have been getting. I find them more comfortable, lots more room, and everything works as it should even the radio (which mine is crap but as it was OK on the day, tough nothing wrong! ) .. plus running costs way cheaper..

Never buy another BMW based on the quality of service dealers and BMW give when you get an issue, nothing was too much trouble from Seat/Skoda dealers or the UK HQ's ..

Sounds like you've been unlucky with your local dealer more than anything. I've always found my local dealers (JC Tayside) to offer great service and if there are any problems they're dealt with quickly and efficiently.

We need to remember that dealerships are just franchises (with I think the exception of Park Lane which is owned by BMW) so I guess the standard of service can vary greatly across the country.

Not so much now with the downturn in the oil industry, but a few years ago the difference between prices and standard of service between dealerships in Aberdeen compared to Dundee was very noticeable. It was obvious in Aberdeen they didn't try as hard to either gain or keep your business - with so much money sloshing around up there it was easy to sell cars!

Originally Posted by Bianchi Dave

Sounds like you've been unlucky with your local dealer more than anything. I've always found my local dealers (JC Tayside) to offer great service and if there are any problems they're dealt with quickly and efficiently.

We need to remember that dealerships are just franchises (with I think the exception of Park Lane which is owned by BMW) so I guess the standard of service can vary greatly across the country.

Not so much now with the downturn in the oil industry, but a few years ago the difference between prices and standard of service between dealerships in Aberdeen compared to Dundee was very noticeable. It was obvious in Aberdeen they didn't try as hard to either gain or keep your business - with so much money sloshing around up there it was easy to sell cars!

Not just dealers, I complained to BMW and they basically said nothing to do with them it needs to go to a dealer.. they have no say with problem.. which is "bull****" dealers work for BMW, BMW do not work for dealer... Dealers do not tell BMW what to do, it's the other way around.

[xenon]

Dealers are franchisees - they don't "work for BMW".

They are approved by BMW.. Like every other franchise they are "approved" by the manufacturer and have to abide by strict rules and regulations they are told what they can and can't do .. I worked for more than one..

[xenon]

Exactly so I don't really understand the point you're making

I have an issue with the DAB the dealer will not fix because according to them it was OK when they looked.. I followed the BMW complaint procedure

BMW customer services say there is NOTHING they can do it is down to the dealer, they go by what the dealer tells them so we cant help you..

So sod off Stuart it was working on the day so that's it..

Not arguing about it, the quality of service I have seen so far is S*** end of it.. Oh I did get "take it elsewhere if your not happy! "

Soon be end of BMW ownership..

For instance I had an issue with the wheels on my last Skoda Superb, Skoda UK INSTRUCTED the dealer to replace them when I emailed them after the dealer I used at the time was not keen to do them so I asked Skoda UK... job sorted

[330Stevie]

I have no experience of Skoda ownership, other than my late grandfather owning several with which he would pick me up from school in during the ‘80’s at the height of the jasper carrot era of Skoda jokes! That was character building 🤣

We have owned all the other VAG group cars though. The Seat dealership we used for a spell had great customer service…. Audi have been very patchy and VW without doubt the worst I’ve ever had including a time that the service manager recommended I complain to the chief executive on a serious issue as he was fed up with not being allowed to provide a good service and it may help him get heard…!
Point being it’s down to the attitude of the dealership really. Yes they have strict guidelines to work within, however good customer service is a culture that needs to be developed and maintained throughout the dealership.

Just had the head unit on mine swapped due to faulty Wi-Fi module. Had to go in twice to get diagnosis correct. At the second visit in that process it was due s brake fluid change which they did for free due to inconvenience.

[Charlie (Wessex)]

Originally Posted by stuarttunstall

Never buy another BMW based on the quality of service dealers and BMW give when you get an issue, nothing was too much trouble from Seat/Skoda dealers or the UK HQ's ..

Unless you need warranty work or have a service inclusive package, no point going to a dealer. Far better to go to a good indy who will give a toss. I have 2 that I can use. The closest, a nice 2.5 mile walk, is too popular and takes 6-8 weeks to book. The other is 10 miles away and not easy to get to. Dealer is a few miles further on still and even harder to get to.

As soon as the service package expires, they won't be seeing me again.

I did dip.into VW ownership. The dealers were crap and very difficult to get to without a car.

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

Unless you need warranty work or have a service inclusive package, no point going to a dealer. Far better to go to a good indy who will give a toss. I have 2 that I can use. The closest, a nice 2.5 mile walk, is too popular and takes 6-8 weeks to book. The other is 10 miles away and not easy to get to. Dealer is a few miles further on still and even harder to get to.

As soon as the service package expires, they won't be seeing me again.

I did dip.into VW ownership. The dealers were crap and very difficult to get to without a car.

That is what I am doing.. there is a fantastic independent York, two in fact we have a customers at work, will be using them once warranty finished

Just annoying you follow the complaints procedure and get told "we cant do anything down to the dealer"

[blue_seather]

Originally Posted by Jimbon1973

Without meaning to sound or be rude- it seems pretty clear that you don't want the BMW as the Skoda is so good and almost everything the BMW does seems to get slated by you?
I've driven both and my perception is that the Skoda is a cheaper, less good alternative that does a lot of things well, just not as well as the higher quality BMW.
Value wise the Skoda wins hands down.
Quality & enjoyment wise, the BMW wins hands down.
I guess your conundrum is to work out which of those things is more important?

It's just difficult to make a decision when the upgrade car is much better at a lot of things but worse at a couple too. An M550i would be the most logical upgrade here, to be honest, but I can't afford one so difficult decisions have to made I guess.

Originally Posted by stuarttunstall

I had Seat and Skoda for over 20 years but fancied a change... after just 18 months BMW ownership I am looking to go back to Skoda with a Kodiaq vRs ...

Much better support from both dealers and Skoda UK, not the BMW "do not give a toss" attitude which I have been getting. I find them more comfortable, lots more room, and everything works as it should even the radio (which mine is crap but as it was OK on the day, tough nothing wrong! ) .. plus running costs way cheaper..

Never buy another BMW based on the quality of service dealers and BMW give when you get an issue, nothing was too much trouble from Seat/Skoda dealers or the UK HQ's ..

I guess that's really on a case per case basis. I've just accepted that all brands and dealerships are the same. With my Superb I've had really annoying creaks and rattles from the area of the instrument cluster (I guess they really cheaped out when they went for the digital display) and it's been extremely difficult to prove it to the dealer. I drove around with an employee in the car at least 3 times until the creak was heard after which he booked me for a month later. When I got there, the guy that rode with me was on leave and the dealership told me that I'd have to demonstrate the creaks all over again to another guy. It took 3 or 4 more visits to the dealership until they could finally do something about it. It was all good for a month and started creaking again, albeit a bit tamer than before. I never bothered to go there again about it as it was such a hassle and a waste of time the last time.

Also, what is Driving Assistant Professional in BMW, called Travel Assist in VAG's world, just randomly stops working and an extremely annoying yellow message "Travel Assist not available", accompanied with an even more annoying chime, pops up every 5 seconds or so for minutes on end. This happens occasionally, mostly in cold weather, but when it hits, not only you can't use said function but it can drive you crazy. In Germany, they would replace the whole steering column for that issue. Some people are already on their third steering wheel there, for some odd reason. Here, they tried to clean up the car's errors once, which of course had no effect. Then they told me that they were waiting for an official software update about the issue. I've asked them on multiple random occasions and it's now been almost 2 years since they've waited for this update. The only thing they offer my each time is to clean up the car's errors.

Have the occasional issue where the car wouldn't play any sound until switched off, locked and waited out for 10+ minutes, too. No amount of reignition or multimedia restarts would do any good when that happens. This is technically unprovable to the dealership though. And they refuse to update the software if there's not a proven necessity.

A friend of mine has a Mazda 3 hatch - a really nice car but a walnut broke his windshield... twice. Took them 4 months to deliver a new one and replace it, each time. He's had the car for over a year now and has no more than 3k miles on it as he hasn't had the chance to drive it much at all.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by 330Stevie

Point being it’s down to the attitude of the dealership really. Yes they have strict guidelines to work within, however good customer service is a culture that needs to be developed and maintained throughout the dealership.

Totally agree with this, plus our relationship with a dealer also helps for obvious reasons.

I've seen both sides of the coin, both where a dealer had little idea how to deal with BMW UK, or the customer. Plus my dealer of over 20-years, where they try hard to work to solve unusual problems, both for the customer and also have a good relationship themselves with guys in BMW. I've personally witnessed the direct conversation with BMW's Technical Department, while sitting in on the conversation.

I conclude, dealers are far more constrained these days, by BMW. They may have to work very hard to get BMW's approval, to dig deeper into unusual issues. Once through that tollgate, BMW can be very cooperative. I've had a personal call from BMW UK's engine guy in the past, and a face to face meeting with an Area Technical Engineer on another occasion.

[G30M]

1 - wait yours is 7 speed DSG and it's more responsive than ZF-8?

3 - Superb has less road noise?

Originally Posted by blue_seather

So my test drive had to be postponed by quite a bit and only today did I manage to drive some odd 30 miles in an M440i 2-door coupe with 19" RFTs.

I honestly expected it to be worse than it was for some reason. Here are my thoughts:

1. Drivetrain - The biggest positive of them all is the engine. I somehow doubted that I would feel much of a difference between how the Superb and the M440i accelerated but I was wrong. It's not a world of difference but still... I also enjoyed how the torque felt and the overall sound of the engine too. The gearbox was definitely slower to react than the DSG. However, it seemed composed and behaved in traffic where the DSG often does not. A 50/50 toss here for me. About the xDrive - I think it did its job because at no point whatsoever could I notice that this car was built on a RWD platform. Didn't have a proper twisty road available to fully test it but it felt quite grippy and stable while cornering.

2. Suspension - The aspect I was the most afraid of actually turned out to be quite bearable. I barely noticed a difference between Comfort, Sport and Adaptive - might have just as well been my imagination. It handled minor road imperfections quite nicely and "luxuriously", even pavement. However, larger bumps were pretty harsh. While the Superb would absorb them and then carry on to bounce uncontrollably for a second or two, the M440i vibrated so hard that I literally jumped in my seat. I found myself detaching from it on at least 2-3 occasions during my one hour test drive. Could be a lot worse and I wonder whether the Gran Coupe somehow makes it better.

3. Sound insulation - Second largest positive compared to the Superb with one caveat. The cabin was insulated quite nicely, even to the point where when I revved the otherwise unbelievably quite engine in S transmission mode, it felt as if I was hearing the noises over a pair of earplugs - it was that weirdly deafened by the insulation. Road noise was maybe marginally better than the Superb and hopefully with non-RFTs it's even better. However, wind noise above 60 mph was quite bad. I think the car didn't have acoustic windows and them being frameless might play a part too but in the Superb I have to be moving at 90 mph at a minimum to experience such wind noise.

4. Infotainment - I really appreciated the physical swivel, which helped me a lot to navigate through Android Auto and the various menus while driving. The touchscreen itself was more inconvenient, though, being so far up and back. Overall, however, I didn't really like the look and feel of iDrive 7. The software looked outdated, the central screen was too small for my liking (difficult to read) and the digital instruments were simply awful. I think I'd enjoy iDrive 8 much better, though.

5. Seating - My biggest gripe with this car. I expected the leather in the regular seats to be more comfortable than in the Superb which is notorious for its pretty hard seats but it felt exactly the same. The extendable thigh support was useless to me as with my lower seating position my thighs were way higher than it to ever rest myself upon it. It was actually more comfortable to have it completely contracted but even then the seats were way too narrow width-wise. The sides of my bottom were touching the bolsters at all times and I never felt the seat completely flat below me, and I'm rather skinny. I can only imagine this won't be very comfortable on longer rides. Wonder how the sport seats would feel but they lack the red I really like and take away even more space from the second row which is my next point.

6. Dimensions - As far as the second row seats go, for obvious reasons I haven't really tested them in the coupe I drove but rather on a GC in the showroom. With me being 6'3", only a smaller woman or a child could ever be comfortable behind me. In the Superb, I can easily stretch my legs behind my own seating position. That's quite shocking to me, especially knowing the outer dimensions of the car, but it's not troubling me all that much, to be honest. All this lost interior space obviously went into the hood of the car. It's a huge part of what you see when you're driving it and it felt pretty weird for me, not being used to it. Overall size and maneuverability - feels the same size as the Superb (I was afraid it would have too much of a small car feel) but the turning radius is noticeably worse, for some odd reason.

7. Misc extras - Obviously, I couldn't test out the lights, the lasers, the interior ambient lighting and such during the day, but I was very pleased with the 360 parking camera which I couldn't option in the Superb. I also enjoyed the heads up display which the Superb is lacking as an extra, maybe even more so as the iDrive 7 digital instruments were horrendous. The driving assistance also felt quite good and easy to dis/engage - slightly more refined than the Skoda's and it starts and stops in traffic by itself which is a godsend. The Harmon Kardon was a complete disappointment - sounds just as flat and bass-lacking as the Canton in the Skoda, if not more so - expected way more. I know a lot of reviewers complain about the thick steering wheel and the general lack of feedback from it but I liked it more than the Skoda's - felt very electronically, as if playing a video game - quite fun for me.

8. Overall feel - The dashboard felt quite driver-oriented and massive which is definitely largely impractical but somehow that felt really good. Felt more modern on the inside than the Superb too (which is technically a model from 2015) but seems a bit lacking in comparison to other competitors, although I think iDrive 8 fixes much of this. It also felt of quite a high quality - a tiny bit better than the Superb and miles ahead of the likes of Mercedes. Hopefully that's not perceived quality only as I hate squeaks and creaks, the likes of which I've had to service on the Superb once or twice. Outside the car has a really nice stance in person, more than photos do it justice. Somehow I don't mind the front grill anymore, especially in black and with a plate slapped on top. After looking at the car for a bit now, the 3 series LCI looks outdated to me. The Superb looked outdated too after finishing up the test drive. That's probably the last BMW design I'll ever like with the Neue Klasse coming up soon, taking inspiration from that horrendous concept they showed at CES.