[SigmaShift]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

The SC-produced M X's (including XM) have 5YM prefix, while the non-M X's have 5UX prefix.

Correct, the 5YM cars are the X3M/X4M/X5M/X6M/XM.

The 5UX cars are everything else, including X3M40i etc.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by peelerec

It’s not an M vehicle. Objective truth. Drive a G20 and a G80 on the track and have objective metrics. I don’t care about marketing. Marketing is biased towards influencing sales and consumers hearts.

One is designed for the track. The other is not. That is the difference. I’ll take the Non-track car which is more comfortable.

I think it’s hilarious how M faithful try and hold onto the outdated Mx nomenclature like it still means something. It’s all marketing now. An M3 is faster than an M340i, but at what cost? An M340i is already way too fast for normal roads. Even the “lowly” 330i will get you into major trouble if you’re not careful. At this point, the Mx cars are just for bragging rights nowadays.

And trust me. I’d love to get an M3/M4, but the price has gone nuts in the last several years. Heck, to even get a similarly specced M440i for 2025 is around $10k more than what I paid for my M440i GC. I can’t justify that sort of price increase.

[koopa]

I used to buy into the comfort argument as a reason to get a G2X over a G8X, that is until I actually drove both. In my experience, the M3 was more comfortable than my M340i with its more compliant suspension and much better quality leather seats, as long as we're not talking about the carbon buckets. It's even a more luxurious car when equipped with full merino. My M340i has the m-sport suspension so it's not exactly apples to apples, but I don't think the comfort gap between a G2X with adaptive compared to the G8X would be sizeable at all. There are G8X owners who came from a G2X and thought the G8X was more comfortable based on the suspension alone.

The only drawbacks a G8X has (to me) as a daily would be higher insurance costs, worse MPG, and a bit more cabin noise to hear the engine, none of which probably matter to you if you're shopping for a G8X.

[madpistol]

The stock suspension on the M340i sucks, but comparing an M3 to my M440i GC w/ adaptive suspension, my M440i GC is more comfortable. I’ve tested them back to back. There’s no doubt in my mind about it. The M3’s stock sport seats are wonderful, but the suspension is still stiff and doesn’t ride as good as my M440i GC. Also, BMW revised the leather seats on the M440i GC. They are much more comfortable than the identical-looking seats in an M340i.

[koopa]

Originally Posted by madpistol

The stock suspension on the M340i sucks, but comparing an M3 to my M440i GC w/ adaptive suspension, my M440i GC is more comfortable. I’ve tested them back to back. There’s no doubt in my mind about it. The M3’s stock sport seats are wonderful, but the suspension is still stiff and doesn’t ride as good as my M440i GC. Also, BMW revised the leather seats on the M440i GC. They are much more comfortable than the identical-looking seats in an M340i.

The suspension on the G20 even in adaptive is still stiff, maybe the M440i is much better in this regard, but to me that's not true for the G20. It's still a comfortable stiff, not harsh jostling when on crappy pavement like my suspension is.

And I've seen you say that about the M440i GC seats many times but is there any proof of that anywhere? Do they have different part numbers? I couldn't tell any difference between seats on the M340i or M440i C/GC. The only difference I've noticed is between Sensatec and Vernasca. Sensatec is softer but breathes worse. I'm not doubting your experience between the two cars you owned, but I haven't experienced it myself.

Edit: I should add that I've also driven the i4 M50 which had the same seat comfort as the G20 to me. It did have a more comfortable suspension than everything else, but I believe the i4 has rear air suspension.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by koopa

The suspension on the G20 even in adaptive is still stiff, maybe the M440i is much better in this regard, but to me that's not true for the G20. It's still a comfortable stiff, not harsh jostling when on crappy pavement like my suspension is.

And I've seen you say that about the M440i GC seats many times but is there any proof of that anywhere? Do they have different part numbers? I couldn't tell any difference between seats on the M340i or M440i C/GC. The only difference I've noticed is between Sensatec and Vernasca. Sensatec is softer but breathes worse. I'm not doubting your experience between the two cars you owned, but I haven't experienced it myself.

Edit: I should add that I've also driven the i4 M50 which had the same seat comfort as the G20 to me. It did have a more comfortable suspension than everything else, but I believe the i4 has rear air suspension.

I can't find a complete(definitive) list, but the Nm numbers can be something like these:

BMW F30 3-Series 29,300
BMW F80 M3 40,000
BMW G20 30-Series 37,000(25% stiffer than F30?)
BMW G80 M3 46,000(15% stiffer than F80?)

https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/f...accord.883984/

BMW claims at certain areas the G20 chassis is 50% stiffer than F30 chassis. The G20 chassis (shared by 330i/M340i) contributes noticeably to the feel and handle of the cars, but also can be jolty at times over road imperfections.

[CSBM5]

Chassis stiffness is referring to the body-in-white, and those are torsional stiffness values. The stiffer the chassis, the better the car rides and handles, but you also have to take mass into account too (and hence end up with the natural frequency in torsion and bending). Chassis stiffness values have no relation with suspension tuning (i.e. spring rates, damper rates, bushing rates, etc).

[LostInSpace]

Too expensive, not worth it, front end is terrible.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Chassis stiffness is referring to the body-in-white, and those are torsional stiffness values. The stiffer the chassis, the better the car rides and handles, but you also have to take mass into account too (and hence end up with the natural frequency in torsion and bending). Chassis stiffness values have no relation with suspension tuning (i.e. spring rates, damper rates, bushing rates, etc).

That is correct. So both 330i and M340i come with the same 36500(?) Nm chassis, and the suspension tuning of each enhances further on top of the chassis. The 330i vs. M340ix has roughly a 400lb difference, and the reduced mass of 330i helps.

A M340i with a 36500(?)Nm chassis cannot easily makeup the difference towards a M3 with a 46000(?)Nm chassis.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

That is correct. So both 330i and M340i come with the same 36500(?) Nm chassis, and the suspension tuning of each enhances further on top of the chassis. The 330i vs. M340ix has roughly a 400lb difference, and the reduced mass of 330i helps.

A M340i with a 36500(?)Nm chassis cannot easily makeup the difference towards a M3 with a 46000(?)Nm chassis.

You repeatedly make reference to an xdrive M340i vs RWD 330i which is nonsensical and meaningless unless one specifically wants to taint a G2x comparison. Additionally, you can install the G80 bracing on the G20 if you desire, but actually obtaining a substantial benefit from it is nil. For example, in outright steady state cornering C&D on their skidpad obtained 1.01g for the M3 and 0.96g for the M340i. If you've ever done any skidpad driving, you'll know how trivial 0.05g difference is around a 300ft diameter circle and how much it depends on the tires. The M340i has 225/255 tires (PS4S) and the M3 has 275/285 tires (PS4S)...simply installing larger wheels and tires on the M340i can easily close that gap.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

You repeatedly make reference to an xdrive M340i vs RWD 330i which is nonsensical and meaningless unless one specifically wants to taint a G2x comparison. Additionally, you can install the G80 bracing on the G20 if you desire, but actually obtaining a substantial benefit from it is nil. For example, in outright steady state cornering C&D on their skidpad obtained 1.01g for the M3 and 0.96g for the M340i. If you've ever done any skidpad driving, you'll know how trivial 0.05g difference is around a 300ft diameter circle and how much it depends on the tires. The M340i has 225/255 tires (PS4S) and the M3 has 275/285 tires (PS4S)...simply installing larger wheels and tires on the M340i can easily close that gap.

MY21 only had 330i RWD vs. M340ix, so that is my frame of reference. I think other non-NA markets also only have M340ix, so I think 330i RWD vs. M340ix is relevant to some.

When u say G80 bracing can be installed on G20(either 330i or M340ix), I think u imply that a G20 body-in-white can be enhanced to get the same Nm as a G80, is that correct? I would think that is cost prohibitive, or to say another way, it likely is cheaper to just pay for a G80 instead of retrofitting a G20(either 330i or M340ix).

[G30M]

i don't consider a M340 or M550 a M car (i've driven an M car and they are built to race from the chassis to engine that doesn't stop pulling all the way to redline and software that doesn't dampen throttle response)

however BMW GmBH doesn't agree with me.
they consider the M340i Performance M while the M3 base is M High Performance, and then Competition and so on