12-05-2023, 02:49 PM | #5083 |
Banned
5003
Rep 4,136
Posts |
i really don't understand what is being argued in this thread anymore. i think both things have a purpose. alas in policitics and society everything is generalites and exteremism which is a means to tuirn us againist each other
|
Appreciate
1
kyriian946.00 |
12-05-2023, 02:50 PM | #5084 | |
Colonel
8223
Rep 2,377
Posts
Drives: 2020 BMW M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Central PA
|
Quote:
You offered no empirical data. Just emotion. I realize that to a certain group of people, fairy farts and good feelings are all you need but being a conservative I want facts. According to the AN report, nearly 400 dealers have dropped out of Ford’s EV sales program since December. It also cut one of three shifts at its EV plant in Michigan, where the F-150 Lightning is built. CFO John Lawler added the company has “taken out some Mustang Mach-E production” last month. He explained, “We are also slowing down several investments, including making a decision with SK On to delay the second BlueOval SK JV battery plant in Kentucky.” Ford loses nearly 400 participants from its EV dealer program |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-05-2023, 02:51 PM | #5085 | |
Major
2491
Rep 1,371
Posts
Drives: 981CS/428/is250/JLU Rubicon
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Center of the Universe
|
Quote:
the sheep that lap up all these anti-EV videos that are most likely bought and paid for by big oil who spends millions every year on misinformation campaigns and lobbying ....it obviously works on some of them...it is a circle jerk of stupidity non-stop youtube videos of morons with agendas somehow has them all convinced EV's are the devil |
|
Appreciate
1
dfox1167.00 |
12-05-2023, 03:00 PM | #5086 | |
Brigadier General
6825
Rep 3,179
Posts |
Quote:
And I vote to the right BTW, I'm also very bearish on EV, I have said that many times. Not everything is liberal or conservative and black and white. You can just call BS when you see it and not wedge yourself on some sort of compulsory side of the fence stance on every issue. I still say we hit 30pc market share then hit a wall but the youtube bros are embarrassing. |
|
Appreciate
1
Socal_R82490.50 |
12-05-2023, 03:16 PM | #5087 | |
Colonel
8223
Rep 2,377
Posts
Drives: 2020 BMW M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Central PA
|
Quote:
The article I posted is from Electrek do you think they would print a negative EV article if it wasn't factual? Why in the world would a car dealer make a $500,000 to $1,000,000 investment if their local market has no interest in EV's? ROI, It's called capitalism. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-05-2023, 03:22 PM | #5088 |
General
67023
Rep 21,646
Posts |
|
Appreciate
1
///M Power-Belgium68777.50 |
12-05-2023, 03:22 PM | #5089 |
Brigadier General
6825
Rep 3,179
Posts |
Jesus H. It doesn't cost 500K to $1M just to sell a basic EV, all you need are a few chargers. "The Program" is a TOTAL re-think of the entire dealership layout and experience to suit EV's and make it easier to sell them. Not having that program doesn't mean you cannot sell them.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-05-2023, 03:29 PM | #5090 | |
Colonel
8223
Rep 2,377
Posts
Drives: 2020 BMW M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Central PA
|
Quote:
Ford Eases EV Requirements After Latest Litigation Setback Dec 5, 2023 In the fall of 2022, Ford introduced an aggressive “Model e Program,” requiring its dealers to invest roughly $500,000-$1 million to install publicly accessible electric vehicle (EV) charging stations, invest in employee training, use the Ford.com e-commerce platform for all EV transactions, engage in “no-haggle” pricing, and provide remote delivery of all vehicle purchases if they wanted to continue selling Ford EVs. Shortly after the Board’s Final Order was issued, Ford announced it would modify the program, cutting training costs in half, lowering the number of required EV chargers, and delaying the deadline to install them by 6 months. https://www.seyfarth.com/news-insigh...n-setback.html |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-05-2023, 03:32 PM | #5091 |
Lieutenant
1167
Rep 539
Posts |
independently owned dealerships just need to go away altogether. stupid middleman that makes the car buying experience terrible for all involved.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-05-2023, 03:34 PM | #5092 | |
Major
2491
Rep 1,371
Posts
Drives: 981CS/428/is250/JLU Rubicon
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Center of the Universe
|
Quote:
Tesla has two of the top selling cars in the world atm and 2 million people have deposits on their latest vehicle, the cyber truck. Proving Ford has issues selling EV's isn't exactly proof that people aren't buying EV's...they're just not buying Fords |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-05-2023, 03:38 PM | #5093 | |
Brigadier General
6825
Rep 3,179
Posts |
Quote:
But I just cannot, for the life of me, get past the charging issue. I just can't, i cannot see how it will be ready for another 20+ years. You will need a public charger on every dang corner, untold millions of them. This doesn't mean there is not a market for EVs but 100% of new cars by 2035 or whatever it is? Not gonna happen, it just wont. |
|
Appreciate
1
spoodle187.50 |
12-05-2023, 03:44 PM | #5094 | |
Brigadier General
6825
Rep 3,179
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-05-2023, 03:48 PM | #5095 |
Lieutenant General
10306
Rep 14,438
Posts |
She can't read and refuses to listen. Like she is bought and paid for.
"Michigan Gov Whitmer orders state government fleet to be 100% electric by 2033" Run Forrest, run!
__________________
Crazy Diamond
|
Appreciate
1
Car-Addicted8223.00 |
12-05-2023, 03:57 PM | #5096 | |
Major
2491
Rep 1,371
Posts
Drives: 981CS/428/is250/JLU Rubicon
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Center of the Universe
|
Quote:
People need to realize that most EV owners have their own charging stations at home and seldom need to use charging stations.... only time I ever use them is on the occasional road trips...recently we took the Tesla on a road trip to Tahoe for Thanksgiving to visit family...over 1000 miles round trip....spent $123 in charging fees total and never stopped for more than 25 minutes and evry station had plenty of open spaces on a busy holiday week of travel....even spotted a cyber truck at one of them. |
|
Appreciate
1
gblansten2402.50 |
12-05-2023, 03:59 PM | #5097 |
Colonel
8223
Rep 2,377
Posts
Drives: 2020 BMW M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Central PA
|
The truth is there are a lot of folks like me that will never own a LiPo powered EV. The environmental damage is way too much for me to swallow.
There are a lot of people that will never be able to afford a EV and the used EV market is very dangerous especially if your not well off and a multi car family. Then there are the early adopters and the folks on the fence. These are upper income multi car families and if this group has a bad EV experience, they will be gone. When the prestige and "look at me factor" is gone and you are left with range anxiety and charge hassles the ICE will look a lot better. This is the fault of government that thinks they can force people to comply. Judging by COVID mania and mask monkeys they are right. A free market approach based on Hybrids and EV's with out mandates would produced a better result. Heck if BMW had solid state batteries in a X5 xDrive50e I might even buy one. |
Appreciate
5
|
12-05-2023, 04:01 PM | #5098 |
Brigadier General
6825
Rep 3,179
Posts |
Hard stop here. Yes, for now most are at home chargers but we will hit a wall where those folks are in an EV and everyone else who cannot get one at home, condo dwellers, street parking types etc, will need a public charger. Also a decent number of EV are second car in household, there is still aback up ICE if the family needs it for a long trip or whatever... so we will need copious, and I mean fucking COPIOUS amounts of chargers out int he public domain.
|
Appreciate
5
|
12-05-2023, 04:20 PM | #5099 | |
Major
2491
Rep 1,371
Posts
Drives: 981CS/428/is250/JLU Rubicon
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Center of the Universe
|
Quote:
yes, but that is kind of a shortsighted view point....by the time 2035 is here, most likely these cars will be more affordable, have much longer ranges and yes, there will be plenty of charging stations...but like I said, when most people charge at home/work there isn't the crazy demand...you know how empty gas stations would be if we most people filled up at home every night? .heck, they are already working on roads that have electromagnetic chargering built into them that charge cars as they go... 2035 is a long way away and many things will change by then and it will be another 30-40 years like 2075 by the time most of the cars on the road will be electric...if we are even driving cars in 2075.... None of us are ever going to see the day where every car is an EV ...we won't live that long |
|
Appreciate
1
Car-Addicted8223.00 |
12-05-2023, 04:31 PM | #5100 | |
Captain
20630
Rep 602
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
2
Car-Addicted8223.00 M5Rick67022.50 |
12-05-2023, 04:35 PM | #5101 |
Colonel
8223
Rep 2,377
Posts
Drives: 2020 BMW M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Central PA
|
Public charging stations are like public laundromats. We have all had to use them at some point in our life but everyone had a big party when they got their own washer and drier and never had to go to a laundromats again.
|
Appreciate
2
Murf the Surf20630.00 ///M Power-Belgium68777.50 |
12-05-2023, 05:33 PM | #5102 | |
Lieutenant
1167
Rep 539
Posts |
Quote:
You just got blinders on and ignore the damage that oil has done and continues to do? I love my ICE vehicles, and my EV, and I'm not going to pretend that either are saving the world, they're both bad in their own way. The big picture reality is that personal transportation is unsustainable for the human race. Unfortunately in the US our society is completely dependent upon it. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-05-2023, 06:05 PM | #5103 | |
Colonel
8223
Rep 2,377
Posts
Drives: 2020 BMW M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Central PA
|
Quote:
How many tons of overburden have to be removed to get the lithium ore, How many liters of water are required? Now lets move on to Cobalt and Copper? Fun facts: Currently, most lithium is extracted from hard rock mines or underground brine reservoirs, and much of the energy used to extract and process it comes from CO2-emitting fossil fuels. Particularly in hard rock mining, for every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air. Too many variables to truly determine the environmental impact of the entire live cycle of a ICE vs a EV but for me The ICE is the better long term play. |
|
Appreciate
5
|
12-05-2023, 06:12 PM | #5104 | |
Major General
14411
Rep 5,459
Posts |
Quote:
Meanwhile in the UK serious limitations are coming in next month. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...cars-evs-vote/ The controversial mandate compels car manufacturers to ensure that at least 22 per cent of their vehicles sold will be electric from Jan 1. By 2030, 80 per cent of cars sold will need to be zero emission, even though the outright ban on petrol and diesel does not come in until 2035. |
|
Appreciate
2
M5Rick67022.50 Murf the Surf20630.00 |
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|