[eddiehaug]

Originally Posted by joe5432

Is everyone not factoring in $$$?

I went with the m340- super fast, I think as the 3 series has become bigger, its the perfect size.

Lease cost between a 2020 m340 and the 2021 540/550 was about $300-$400, especially now that BMW has zero incentives this fall for 2021s.

This. Pricewise they're actually quite different, unless that really money is not an issue, the 3 series (any 3 series) is a lot cheaper than the 5er.

I used to have a 530e from 2018, and I now have a 330e G20. Since the changes to the 5 series are mostly cosmetic and iDrive, I guess the new one rides the same as the one I had. If that's true, then there's no way I'd go back to the 5 series.

It's true it's quite and comfy, so if you drive a lot of long trips you may be better off choosing the 5er, especially if you have money to spec it up nicely. Otherwise, it's exactly like other people have described: it feels huge, heavy, the opposite of dynamic, boring. The 3 series, however, it's a car I've fallen in love with, it's just so much fun, it energizes me each time I drive it.

The only car for which I'd change my 330e is for a 330e xDrive or the M340i (if I could just afford it –here in Norway cars like this are seen as the car version of the devil, so they're extremely high taxed). I would certainly never change it for the 5 series, even if I had the money to spec it whatever way I want.

[blackcoffee]

Short of the m5, I doubt I'd trade my m340 for a 5er. I have not driven the m550, but my impression from those who have is that it screams in a straight line but is otherwise a victim of its large size with regards to handling and dynamics.

Would I like a bit more comfort in the m340? For sure - better leather and less plastic would be welcome changes. But I wouldn't trade the fun factor for comfort, at least not at this stage in my driving career.

[mfdutra]

I did the 5->3 route. I posted this on Bimmerfest a couple days ago:

I picked up my custom-ordered 2021 M340i xDrive a few days ago. Needless to say, I'm very excited. I returned a custom-ordered 2018 540i M-Sport, which was an excellent car. I'm missing some things from the 5 and also liking some things more in the 3. Before the 5, I used to have a 2015 335i, which I really liked, but that one was off the lot, and I suffered for 3 years because I didn't have the options I wanted. So now I only order.

On the M340i, order to delivery in California was 5 weeks roughly. The car was assembled in San Luis Potosi, Mexico, and entered the US through Port Hueneme, in California. Order to delivery on the 540i was 8-9 weeks, with the car assembled in Graz, Austria.

This is not a full review of the car. Just a comparison with what I had before.

What I like more:

• Power: even though they both have the same engine and the 540i is quite fast, the M340i has 14% more power (382 vs 335 hp) and it's lighter. It's quite a bit faster. I'd say it would compare better with the M550i actually.
• Fuel economy: even though it's more powerful, it's averaging 24 mpg, while the 5 was more like 21.
• Steering: much better and more direct. Just one revolution to each side, whereas the 5 was 1.5 and I really didn't like that. I should've ordered the variable steering on the 5, but I didn't know what I didn't know.
• iDrive 7: much nicer than the 6 and finally Android Auto, as I have a Pixel 4. The integration is really well done and I can even see Google Maps directions on the HUD. I like the home screen on the iDrive 7 better, as it's more configurable. The only bummer is that the screen on the 540i was bigger. I'll get used to it.
• Lane keep assist: it finally works well! I had it on the 540i but it was a joke, disconnecting every 30 seconds for anything it would judge not safe. Now it's solid, almost as good as my Tesla's. The adaptive cruise control was already excellent on the 5.
• Speed limiter: finally in the US, something that had been common in Europe for years. I like to use it for city driving, so I don't overspeed.
• Exhaust note: I thought I would find it too loud. Now I love it!!

What I like less:

• The seats: I had the multi contour seats on the 540i, which are absolutely lovely! I wish it was an option on the 3 series. The M340i seats are fine, but quite firm and not as configurable. I'll get used to it.
• No soft close doors: it was a nice touch on the 5 and the Tesla has that too. I'll just have to relearn to close the doors more firmly now.
• Harman Kardon sound system: even though the system is supposed to be the same, it doesn't sound as good as my 540i and even the 335i. I don't know why. I'll have to spend more time on the equalizer to make it better.
• Less space: that's obvious and a trade-off. It's mostly noticeable in the trunk.
• Cannot turn off auto start stop. The M340i has the mild hybrid thing, which did improve the start/stop quite a bit in fact. But it's still irritating. I've coded the car to always start in sport individual, which addressed the issue.
• Steering wheel adjustment is not electric: at this price point, the 3s should have it as well. I'm tall and I like to use the wheel as low as possible. The 5 would automatically raise the wheel when I open the door. I miss that a lot, but whatever.
• The suspension so far: I had the 704 M Sport suspension on the 5 and it was quite a bit softer than the 3, but still firm. The M340i is harsh. The only package I didn't buy was the adaptive suspension, because I thought I'd always use it in sport anyway. So I learned my lesson. I'll get used to it.

Probably a lot more things on the like/dislike list that didn't come to mind. Overall, I'm really happy with the car. It's a lot more fun to drive.

[Germanauto]

The 5-series philosophy completely shifted a decade ago when the F10 was launched. It flipped a 180 from being a slightly larger 3-series focused primarily on driving engagement to being a mini 7-series. In that time, the 3-series has grown.

As a result I'd much rather opt for the M3 over the 5-series. It's large enough of car while being much better to drive and far more exclusive/bespoke. There's a 5-series at every stop light, nobody is going to look twice at it. The M3 is a far more special car to drive and own.

[Giggler]

Originally Posted by mfdutra;26683079[*

Power: even though they both have the same engine and the 540i is quite fast, the M340i has 14% more power (382 vs 335 hp) and it's lighter. It's quite a bit faster. I'd say it would compare better with the M550i actually.

Excellent write-up and not wanting to pick on you for once comment, but let's talk about our car's steering and acceleration:

Cars in general have gotten so fast that the 0-60 times are deceiving to say the least. If you're buying a 4.4L V8 powered BMW, you're buying it for the top end performance. I haven't driven one, but have seen a lot of autobahn blast videos and the 100-200kmh times (approx 60 to 120mph) between M550i and M5 is almost negligible.... I would not put the B58 powered M340i in the same ballpark as the S63 powered M550i.

Having owned the M340i for over a year now, I absolutely love this car, and the complaints about the steering feel are overly-critical. To me, "bad steering" is when a complete failure to provide accurate direction and feedback results in misjudgments that could lead to loss of control at the limits. I've never had that feeling in this car. It's direct and precise but lacking in feedback and slightly numb on center. It's not going to win any awards for best steering, but it's hardly worth complaining about either.

But I will say one thing that everyone seems to ignore: The car isn't that fast from a roll at speeds greater than 45mph. The car seems to be geared to be very fast from a stop and from any speed where you have access to high 2nd gear going into 3rd. But once you get to a speed where you are using mid/high-3rd gear and up, it loses some of its hustle in my opinion.... and this is where that urge to own a 4.4L V8 powered BMW such as the M550i comes into play.

If it weren't for the fact that I was leasing, I would have put a JB4 on this car by now to get better rolling acceleration.

Side note: Tomorrow I am having Pilot Sport 4S installed to replace my P-Zero Run-Flats. I heard these tires improve steering response and road noise slightly... looking forward to the results!

[EXE46]

The tires will help with the steering response some, I did the swap 4 months ago. The biggest benefit is the added grip, it is outstanding especially on wet pavement where my RWD used to struggle for traction, this is no longer an issue.

No comment on the 5'er, too large for me, and I prefer an I-6 to V8, call me oddball lol. M340i is as large a car I want to drive.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by Giggler

Excellent write-up and not wanting to pick on you for once comment, but let's talk about our car's steering and acceleration:

Cars in general have gotten so fast that the 0-60 times are deceiving to say the least. If you're buying a 4.4L V8 powered BMW, you're buying it for the top end performance. I haven't driven one, but have seen a lot of autobahn blast videos and the 100-200kmh times (approx 60 to 120mph) between M550i and M5 is almost negligible.... I would not put the B58 powered M340i in the same ballpark as the S63 powered M550i.

Having owned the M340i for over a year now, I absolutely love this car, and the complaints about the steering feel are overly-critical. To me, "bad steering" is when a complete failure to provide accurate direction and feedback results in misjudgments that could lead to loss of control at the limits. I've never had that feeling in this car. It's direct and precise but lacking in feedback and slightly numb on center. It's not going to win any awards for best steering, but it's hardly worth complaining about either.

But I will say one thing that everyone seems to ignore: The car isn't that fast from a roll at speeds greater than 45mph. The car seems to be geared to be very fast from a stop and from any speed where you have access to high 2nd gear going into 3rd. But once you get to a speed where you are using mid/high-3rd gear and up, it loses some of its hustle in my opinion.... and this is where that urge to own a 4.4L V8 powered BMW such as the M550i comes into play.

If it weren't for the fact that I was leasing, I would have put a JB4 on this car by now to get better rolling acceleration.

Side note: Tomorrow I am having Pilot Sport 4S installed to replace my P-Zero Run-Flats. I heard these tires improve steering response and road noise slightly... looking forward to the results!

Very curious to hear your opinion after you swap out the runflats. I swapped out my Pirelli P7 runflats for Michelin's and i'm actually really conflicted. Grip and high speed stability have all vastly improved. However, the already dull steering (which i also find to be numb on center) is noticeably less crisp.

This car is huge but with the runflats, every now and then it would still give me that go cart feel. The car was sharp. Now i feel like the steering response is even slower at turn in and much less crisp.

After doing some research, this seems to be the consensus on the BMW forums as well. The explanation is that the stiffer side wall on the runflats reduces body leaning as compared to non run flats so the car turns in quicker and is sharper while maneuvering. Makes sense and def noticeable.

Check out this thread: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1248787


Just giving you a head's up and something to think about- the unlimited grip is great but in day to day driving i really miss the crisp turn in. Now it feels more towards the 5 series spectrum with unlimited grip. I'm highly debating returning the tires and going with the Michelin Pilot Sport ZP Runflats.

[EXE46]

^
Aren't yours all season michelins? I don't have your observations after the swap with PS4S.

PS. Link is bullocks. BMW offers the MPS4S on the track focused variant of the G20, that alone should tell you. Car handles much much better on these than run flats, best upgrade and quite frankly this is way they should have equipped all the M340's from the factory. I drive this car hard and much harder now that I am on summer tires since I have way more grip.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by EXE46

^
Aren't yours all season michelins? I don't have your observations after the swap with PS4S.

Yeah, I have the new Michelin Pilot Sport A/s 4's. I would think the effect is even more pronounced on summer tires (as some F30 owners found) b/c of the super soft two-ply sidewalls used for grip.

Again, i'm only talking about one thing - crisp steering. (eg. car feels go karty, not to be confused with grip and handling) The Michelin's are better in every other way but they can't match that crisp feel of the runflats. It's just more noticeable on the G20 b/c it already has dull/numb steering to begin with. Of course, on a track, any vehicle will run a quicker lap on the Michelin's. I'm navigating parking lots and city streets so i do miss the crisp turn in.

Edit: They are a bit better if you run them at 40PSI. (still not as crisp as the runflats though and i'm also sacrificing grip at that point) I'm super sensitive about the steering so its noticeable for me but may not be an issue for most people on here as they have no issues with the G20 steering to begin with,

[Giggler]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

Very curious to hear your opinion after you swap out the runflats. I swapped out my Pirelli P7 runflats for Michelin's and i'm actually really conflicted. Grip and high speed stability have all vastly improved. However, the already dull steering (which i also find to be numb on center) is noticeably less crisp.

This car is huge but with the runflats, every now and then it would still give me that go cart feel. The car was sharp. Now i feel like the steering response is even slower at turn in and much less crisp.

After doing some research, this seems to be the consensus on the BMW forums as well. The explanation is that the stiffer side wall on the runflats reduces body leaning as compared to non run flats so the car turns in quicker and is sharper while maneuvering. Makes sense and def noticeable.

Check out this thread: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1248787


Just giving you a head's up and something to think about- the unlimited grip is great but in day to day driving i really miss the crisp turn in. Now it feels more towards the 5 series spectrum with unlimited grip. I'm highly debating returning the tires and going with the Michelin Pilot Sport ZP Runflats.

Thanks for that information, I'll be sure to chime into that thread with my experience once I've broken them in. For reference, my car has the passive suspension with the staggered 225/255 setup.

Last month I went on a road trip and had an opportunity to do some high speed runs. With these run flats, I felt the need to back off at around 135mph.... which is weird because it feels COMPLETELY STABLE at 120mph, but once you push it just a little bit faster, things suddenly start to feel dangerous. I was blaming the tires at the time because I could not explain it otherwise. And the few times I've tried to use launch control, the tires just screech all the way into 2nd gear. The rear end breaks out a little too easily also, but fun to correct with a quick counter-jerk of the steering wheel. I am overall disappointed in the run-flat tire.

In some ways this reminds me of the FR86 debate on performance vs economy tires. One tire provides absolute performance while the other tire allows you to have fun with controlled slides.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by Giggler

Thanks for that information, I'll be sure to chime into that thread with my experience once I've broken them in. For reference, my car has the passive suspension with the staggered 225/255 setup.

Last month I went on a road trip and had an opportunity to do some high speed runs. With these run flats, I felt the need to back off at around 135mph.... which is weird because it feels COMPLETELY STABLE at 120mph, but once you push it just a little bit faster, things suddenly start to feel dangerous. I was blaming the tires at the time because I could not explain it otherwise. And the few times I've tried to use launch control, the tires just screech all the way into 2nd gear. The rear end breaks out a little too easily also, but fun to correct with a quick counter-jerk of the steering wheel. I am overall disappointed in the run-flat tire.

In some ways this reminds me of the FR86 debate on performance vs economy tires. One tire provides absolute performance while the other tire allows you to have fun with controlled slides.

It looks like you're looking for extra grip and high speed stability. Run flats won't come close to the Michelin's in either category so I think you'll be happy. Let me know if you notice any difference in steering feel. Even if you do - trade off is probably worth it.

[zengaoxd]

the 3!
m340i better than 530i

[scoale]

G20 M340i = 3,849 (more for xdrive)
G30 540 = 3,847

Would have expected 340 to have more of a weight advantage

[Giggler]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

It looks like you're looking for extra grip and high speed stability. Run flats won't come close to the Michelin's in either category so I think you'll be happy. Let me know if you notice any difference in steering feel. Even if you do - trade off is probably worth it.

Had the tires installed yesterday and only have about 15 miles on them, not even broken in, and already huge performance difference.

1. Car is slightly more quiet at cruising speeds
2. Responsiveness is actually better and less numb on center. Overall steering is more labored/resistant
3. Waaay more grip! I did a launch control on an empty road and it was insanely fast. Definitely felt like a sub-4 second 0-60. Rear end less hesitant to break out in a corner.
4. Tires have a little more bounce and therefore a little more comfortable with the passive suspension.

My run flats had 7K miles with full tread... so it’s not like I am comparing old tire vs new tire. Buy the ps4s and won’t be disappointed

[Cvaggelis95]

Well, as for the interior, I think the G30 does a bit better job. But, as for the rest setup (suspension, engine, driving behaviour), G20 is the option to go for.

As for the exterior design, I might wait for the G20 lci. I think we should see the facelifted model around 2022.

[themnmd]

I quite like the LCI 5 er

[blackcoffee]

I wish I could run the ps4s. Sadly, I need a tire built for winter and I don't have the space to store an extra set of rubber. But I keep hearing how much better the car is on the ps4s and it's got me feeling some kind of way

[alpinewhite3]

Just got a 530i RWD loaner for the day. Not M sport but it does have optional 19 inch wheels. It is god awful. Can't wait to get back in the 330i. It's not even a good highway cruiser. Feels super wobbly and disconnected at 80mph+. What the hell happened to the 5 series? Who is the target audience for this vehicle???

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

Who is the target audience for this vehicle???

Lexus ES customers.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

Just got a 530i RWD loaner for the day. Not M sport but it does have optional 19 inch wheels. It is god awful. Can't wait to get back in the 330i. It's not even a good highway cruiser. Feels super wobbly and disconnected at 80mph+. What the hell happened to the 5 series? Who is the target audience for this vehicle???

Guess your disdain for the 330i may wane now lol. One can always do worse if they chose to... it only gets worse from here till it's all EV.

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by scoale

G20 M340i = 3,849 (more for xdrive)
G30 540 = 3,847

Would have expected 340 to have more of a weight advantage

5 series mostly aluminum and 3 series not much smaller.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Guess your disdain for the 330i may wane now lol. One can always do worse if they chose to... it only gets worse from here till it's all EV.

Yeah I know i complain now and then about the G20 but def have to have some perspective...i'd say we have about 10 good years of pure driving enjoyment left before the self driving EV's take over. I might as well live it up and jump into an M2 competition when my 330i lease ends. Enjoy these cars while we still can!