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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 Sedan Forum (2019+) Carsten Pries BMW M Product Head Confirms AWD and More For G80 M3

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      03-14-2019, 12:29 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by 335isam View Post
I'm just so confused... Didn't someone confirm the M3 sDrive "Pure" version was supposed to come with a 6spd. So does this mean this is the last generation for M2/M3/M4 to come in a 6spd manual????
Every report on The G80 states there will be a manual option in RWD form....of some sort that will be lighter and more pure.

The Original Post in this thread was about the 8speed on the Xdrive platform, but ended with this same idea, but worded slightly different.

Nothing to this point indicates there will be no manual option.

“There could, however, be a rear-drive, manual-gearbox light at the end of the tunnel. In the past, M’s CS models have been the most powerful, quick and focused offerings, but there is a suggestion that a new M3 CS could focus less on performance and more on a purer driving experience. This would be achieved by offering a rear-drive, manual model, whose turbocharged six would produce less torque (and subsequently power, too) to preserve the gearbox’s internals, but would also shun some of the complex – and heavy – technology that burdens modern performance cars. It sounds like an M3 evo would build. Hopefully BMW will, too.ted there will also be a RWD model that is for purists.”
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      03-14-2019, 03:02 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 335isam View Post
I'm just so confused... Didn't someone confirm the M3 sDrive "Pure" version was supposed to come with a 6spd. So does this mean this is the last generation for M2/M3/M4 to come in a 6spd manual????
Every report on The G80 states there will be a manual option in RWD form....of some sort that will be lighter and more pure.

The Original Post in this thread was about the 8speed on the Xdrive platform, but ended with this same idea, but worded slightly different.

Nothing to this point indicates there will be no manual option.

"There could, however, be a rear-drive, manual-gearbox light at the end of the tunnel. In the past, M's CS models have been the most powerful, quick and focused offerings, but there is a suggestion that a new M3 CS could focus less on performance and more on a purer driving experience. This would be achieved by offering a rear-drive, manual model, whose turbocharged six would produce less torque (and subsequently power, too) to preserve the gearbox's internals, but would also shun some of the complex – and heavy – technology that burdens modern performance cars. It sounds like an M3 evo would build. Hopefully BMW will, too.ted there will also be a RWD model that is for purists."
I would add a lot of the "information" is driven by speculation that gets assumed as fact. The only hard information from our resident insider says they are testing manual and automatic, xdrive and rwd versions. Although it seems plausible the manual is restricted to the pure rwd version due to other commentary around cost and torque ratings. There still could be a manual competition xdrive version (or other combinations) in the works. Admittedly it would be a bit of a surprise but those who have already slammed the door shut might want to take a deep breath and wait.
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      03-14-2019, 04:41 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
What's with all the hate on AWD?

Give me a break already. Many of the super/hyper cars are AWD. The current gen M3 (competition) can't lay down all the power to the rear wheels without causing some spin. I track my car and it annoys me that after a curve I can't plant the pedal all the way down without worrying if spin (aka loss of power, loss of acceleration, loss of speed, loss of TRACTION ) will occur. Or how about the spin on a dead start...So great, 444 HP, but can't put it all down because the rear wheels can't handle it.

AWD will mean a slightly heavier car (if you are that concerned, go on a diet and change your seats to race car seats ), and it will mean all the power gets planted to the ground.

Do people not remember the 0-60 times of the 335xi vs 335i? Which was quicker? That's right, the XI. Most tracks that I go on are too short to enjoy max speed, and many have lots of curves (just the way I like them ) which means, 0-60 and 0-100 times are more important than top speed (We the People of the United States of America do not have an unrestricted highway ).

Now, if you want to complain about something: Lack of ventilated seats. When tracking my car the windows MUST be rolled down, and it's hot outside. I'd like my bootay to not be hot. Vent my BOOTAY
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      03-15-2019, 12:29 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
I love my F80 but its got some serious traction issues. Its about the worst car I've ever driven at putting its power to the ground. Not even sure people realize how intrusive the traction control is on these cars to keep them aimed the right direction. I've heard the euro mdm coding helps but even in MDM its a struggle.
Your statement is a bit of a contradiction as lessening traction (in euro MDM or MDM) allows more slip/spin, so in on sense makes it harder to put the power down.

That said, the reality is that all BMW's I have driven the traction control systems are way to intrusive. Yes I have see the traction control light in my F80 flashing, but in those scenarios if it was off that doesn't mean the car would have spun out or not driven straight, it is just that if the system thinks any slip will occur it steps in.

Now I am going to contradict myself a bit: MDM feels like you can put the power down better because it actually allows some slip and tires actually reach there max level of grip with some level of slip. I do not feel that the F80 has any traction issues, but it does require proper throttle modulation like any high horsepower car.
You are missing the point. The amount of slipping is the problem. To avoid the slipping you either hold back/modulate throttle (ie don't use all the power) or allow traction control to make that decision for you. Also traction control is intervening in instances where the light doesn't flash too.

F80 is a fun car to drive and I'm obviously a fan... But its awful at putting its power to the pavement.

AWD will be a game changer. I look forward to it.
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      03-15-2019, 04:19 PM   #93
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Since when is an all-wheel drive, turbo-charged, electric steering, active-sound equipped M a "real" M?
Then you have the grotesque cluster panel in the G gen that looks more like a bad attempt at an iWatch than the traditional round and analog gauges?

The E92 was the first and last M I'll ever buy.
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      03-15-2019, 06:50 PM   #94
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Today i saw the new Z4.

The wheelbase and how low the car is awesome. The stance of the car is awesome. The M3 and M4 next to it are looking like trucks. The new M3 is even bigger.


If you see a Z4 next to a M3 you understand very quickly that it has no point to use the m3 or m4 on track.

The basis of the new z4 is the perfect size and very low center of gravity for becomming a trackcar. We only need Z4M with a steel roof and a S58 with 400 hp and lightweight panels. No way i buy me toyota! I sell my m2C for it instantly for a Z4M with steel roof coupe! This will be thru competitor for a porsche!

New Z4 does lap the ring faster then an M2

M3 and m4 are so big they are fast transportation no more then that! Very good at that though!
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      03-15-2019, 10:54 PM   #95
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0-60 estimate for the competition model ? I think around 3.5?
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      03-16-2019, 12:00 AM   #96
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Ok Donald
It's only March, but comment of the dang year right here.
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      03-16-2019, 04:08 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
The laws of physics are what they are and cannot be changed. As the horsepower continues to increase to satisfy customer demand, transferring all power to rear wheels only becomes impractical.
You might be right...but not at the horsepower levels we expect to see for the G80/82.

IIRC the G80/82 Competition will be around 500 BHP...which just happens to be the amount we saw in the E60 M5...which was also RWD, all the time.

I am not an E60 expert - but I don't recall complaints with being able to use all the power with a full-time RWD car at those BHP levels. I think most of the complaints were associated with the SMG.

Just an alternative viewpoint...
That's because it didn't make that 500hp until really high rpm and didn't have as much low rpm torque to break the tires loose as the current turbo cars do
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      03-16-2019, 06:40 PM   #98
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All I want is MT!!!!
And take it to a track every weekend
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      03-16-2019, 06:57 PM   #99
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All I want is MT!!!!
And take it to a track every weekend
Cool, can't wait to see some videos!!!
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      03-19-2019, 06:08 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
I track my car and it annoys me that after a curve I can't plant the pedal all the way down without worrying if spin (aka loss of power, loss of acceleration, loss of speed, loss of TRACTION) will occur.
Oh, so you finally tried turning DSC off? Last year you were railing against anyone on a track turning DSC off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
Now, if you want to complain about something: Lack of ventilated seats. When tracking my car the windows MUST be rolled down, and it's hot outside. I'd like my bootay to not be hot. Vent my BOOTAY
You have got to be kidding me... Yeah, all the people I know who track their car are just pleading for ventilated seats...

Oh, and kudos for the overdone and completely unnecessary emoji diarrhea...
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      03-19-2019, 07:35 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by moonshine89 View Post
Obviously many disagree about the DCT vs manual argument. I only had MT cars prior to my first experience with DCT. It was definitely fun shifting and dropping the clutch. But after driving DCT, I get the same thrill which is from shifting at whatever rpm I wanted. I was happy to get rid of a third pedal and free up one hand.

If you use DCT as it's meant to be used, i feel it's just as "fun" as MT. It shifts just as "hard" and is crisp. When I don't want to shift manually anymore, I just pop it into auto. Now I haven't driven the 8 spd auto, but it doesn't sound like it drives or shifts the same way. Anyone driven the m5?
I'd argue that if you're talking about dropping the clutch and shifting "hard," you weren't using a manual the way it was intended. If you don't know how to drive a manual properly then I wouldn't expect you to see its benefits.
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      03-20-2019, 03:46 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I'd argue that if you're talking about dropping the clutch and shifting "hard," you weren't using a manual the way it was intended. If you don't know how to drive a manual properly then I wouldn't expect you to see its benefits.
Have you driven the DCT? I've owned both a DCT and manual f80 and to be honest, I think the DCT is the better transmission for the platform.

W.r.t. the upcoming awd/rwd m3/4, I really hope they keep the character somewhat sporting - I would hate it to be a mini m5.
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      03-20-2019, 11:48 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
Have you driven the DCT? I've owned both a DCT and manual f80 and to be honest, I think the DCT is the better transmission for the platform.

W.r.t. the upcoming awd/rwd m3/4, I really hope they keep the character somewhat sporting - I would hate it to be a mini m5.
No, not a DCT F80, but plenty of other DCT/SMG/MCT/F1 cars. I know what you mean about DCT's being the right fit for some cars . . . the E60M5 and most modern Ferrari's come to mind, where a manual trans would let the revs drop too much on a high revving engine and interrupt the action. I'm not sure I agree that a torquey turbo engine fits in that category. As cool as those cars are, however, for daily driving enjoyment, those cars will lose to a good manual all day long. Note that I'm talking about just enjoying your mundane commute at normal speeds.
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      03-21-2019, 12:33 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
No, not a DCT F80, but plenty of other DCT/SMG/MCT/F1 cars. I know what you mean about DCT's being the right fit for some cars . . . the E60M5 and most modern Ferrari's come to mind, where a manual trans would let the revs drop too much on a high revving engine and interrupt the action. I'm not sure I agree that a torquey turbo engine fits in that category. As cool as those cars are, however, for daily driving enjoyment, those cars will lose to a good manual all day long. Note that I'm talking about just enjoying your mundane commute at normal speeds.
Yeah, i think overall its tough because the m3/4 is a fun car in both forms - but in different ways, if you will. With the DCT I had, I appreciated the S2 transmission logic a lot and I felt like the car was telepathic. With the 6mt, it's more rewarding when I get things right... so both enjoyable, but definitely different

I am kind of disappointed to hear about the automatic, but I'm optimistic the car will still be fun when its out... otherwise, I assume the next m2 will cover whats left
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      03-31-2019, 12:47 AM   #105
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My 2 cents on awd. In a 500hp car you probably don’t need it (unless you are only focused on 0-60). I enjoy my rwd F80 M3 Comp the way it is. On the other hand, my 700+hp GT-R is a different story. I had the front drive shaft removed and ran the car in rwd for a week and it was scary. Could not put that power down and would get sideways in a hurry, and this was with 315/30/20 Nitto NT01 tires. In awd the car was awesome. So much traction and was able to use all that power (except in first gear where all four wheels would spin). Even 1000hp GT-RS are very driveable with awd (as opposed to a Supra which is quite a handful at 1000hp).
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