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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) Photos / Videos / Journals Video: Throttle House - BMW M340i vs. Audi S4 vs. Mercedes C43 AMG

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      07-05-2019, 10:45 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Becky_the_f30 View Post
Man you hit this on the head!! This was the exact same thought process I had going on while watching this video. The 330 is starting from a much higher level than the base c300 and the fact that they didn't even mention that was pretty disappointing.
They did mention it, they had an entire video devoted to the 330, A4 and C300 in which they said how high of a bar the 330 set compared to the others.

The host then alluded to that video at the end when he said hed take the 330 over the s4, c43 and 340
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      07-05-2019, 11:09 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Becky_the_f30 View Post
Man you hit this on the head!! This was the exact same thought process I had going on while watching this video. The 330 is starting from a much higher level than the base c300 and the fact that they didn't even mention that was pretty disappointing.
They did mention it, they had an entire video devoted to the 330, A4 and C300 in which they said how high of a bar the 330 set compared to the others.

The host then alluded to that video at the end when he said he’d take the 330 over the s4, c43 and 340
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Originally Posted by Becky_the_f30 View Post
Man you hit this on the head!! This was the exact same thought process I had going on while watching this video. The 330 is starting from a much higher level than the base c300 and the fact that they didn't even mention that was pretty disappointing.
They did mention it, they had an entire video devoted to the 330, A4 and C300 in which they said how high of a bar the 330 set compared to the others.

The host then alluded to that video at the end when he said he'd take the 330 over the s4, c43 and 340
Yeah I watched that video as well. My point was that he kept saying how the 340 dldnt feel that different compared to the 330 but it's not really supposed to feel dramatically different.
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      07-05-2019, 12:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by mirob View Post
So the M340i's biggest flaw is the superiority of the 330i over it's classmates? I figured the outcome would be based on driving dynamics, instead it's based on the delta between the base and mid level car.

Disappointing one from these guys...
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. They are young and they like sporty cars. Who doesn't when you're that age? I'm probably about 10 years older than they are and I still love sportier cars. The first thing I did to my F30 was install the M Perf suspension when I got it. They like the C43 because it's more exciting. To them, that's because of the exhaust note, sharper steering, and stiffer suspension tuning. Those were all design decisions made by BMW. BMW wanted to make their M340i closer to the 330i M Sport and really set apart the M3.

On the other hand, Mercedes wanted to make their C43 AMG closer to the C63 AMG. This is most obvious by the fact that they are using the exact same naming scheme. The C43 AMG IS meant to be an AMG car on a budget. The M340i is NOT meant to be an M3 on a budget. It's meant to be the BEST (sporty) normal G20 3 series. They're different philosophies and the reviewers touch on it at the end.

BMW surely could have made the car stiffer, louder, and more dynamic purely through tuning. But they didn't. The target audience for the M340i are the ones that want a more compliant ride but still be able to go fast in a straight line.

Just because THESE guys like the C43 AMG more doesn't mean it's better. They just prefer the sportier tuning. That and the manual option is the reason why I am not considering an M340i this generation and will just skip to the M3. For 90% of people who want a fast 3 series, though, the M340i is a GREAT car.
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      07-05-2019, 02:48 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
The poor and generic statement was the one you made prior. The S4/S5 are just as quick as the C43 and M340i. The general basic requirements for a daily driver for everyone is basically the same, smooth and comfortable. The degree to how comfortable and how smooth you want your car to be is where you're going to choose what brand vehicle you'll be driving. It's the same reason why you drive a BMW.

Do you want a car that breaks your back every time you hit a pothole or do you want the car to iron out bumps so you don't feel them? Do you want a quiet ride or do you want to constantly be hearing wind noise?
You and the other guy should pay more attention as the "prior statement" is not mine.

As a note I know how quick is each, we have S4, S5 and A8 in family, thank you. There are other aspects that are important and Audi doesn't even came close for me. Fair enough?
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      07-05-2019, 04:36 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
You and the other guy should pay more attention as the "prior statement" is not mine.

As a note I know how quick is each, we have S4, S5 and A8 in family, thank you. There are other aspects that are important and Audi doesn't even came close for me. Fair enough?
That's fair. My apologies for the misquote. You are an enthusiast good sir, so there are other factors that matter. You're here on these forums. For the other 95% of the general population, nothing else matters.
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      07-05-2019, 05:04 PM   #72
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Excellent video! I'll add my thoughts from my brief test drive experience of both cars.

1. The C43 is very aggressive when it wants to be and quiets down when it doesn't (albeit a little too much). This is a beautiful thing in a way and reminds me greatly of both my E90 and E46's ability to be sporty and sharp one moment at 5000 RPM in third and quiet and civil the next at 1800 RPM in 6th.

2. However, Comfort in the C43's adaptive suspension is too soft for me. I suspect it will be too soft for any who prefer the 704 passive M suspension. And thanks to AMG's tuning, a purely passive suspension in the C43 feels crashy and hard. Therefore adaptive is more or less a necessity there if its a daily.

3. I still haven't driven the M340i even close to its abilities on dynamic roads I am familiar with, so can't comment there yet. It was clear to me that the BMW had a much more natural progression as you turned up the heat even slightly, where the C43 was either all on or all off. I liken it to settings 1, 2, and 3 in the BMW, and 1, 5, and 7 in the C43.

4. The C43 feels faster even when it isn't. The C43 is a lot of fun due to the sense of pantomime and theatre it gives, very much giving that special sauce that made the Audi B8 S4 so much more special than the B8 A4.

I actually found myself welcoming the conclusion that the M340i wasn't as outright aggressive but just as fast!

For those who are concerned at the conclusion that the M340i may not be as aggressive or as big a leap over the 330i, do recall that a little something called the M2 Competition exists at the same price point or less and offers the same or better aggression and sense of drama as the C43! When I thought about it like this, BMW's strategy became clear. Those who want the theatre at some expense of comfort will go straight for the M2C. I know I would if I didn't need a sensible family car

I think it is fair to say that the G20 is beginning to straddle the line between the 3-series and the older, more driver-friendly 5-series, like the E39 and E60. From that perspective, a more comfort focused car that can still dance makes sense.

Waiting for the M3 to see how much of what I said has basis in reality.
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      07-06-2019, 09:31 AM   #73
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It doesn't matter what all these guys think, go test drive these cars and get the car you like!
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      07-07-2019, 06:12 PM   #74
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Test drove c43 yesterday and m340i xdrive last week. IMO c43 wins at exhaust sound, steering wheel design and rear end design (quad exhausts look much better than dual exhausts on m340i). I believe the joy mentioned in the video also mainly comes from the exhaust sound.

However, in terms of performance (straight line, lap time on track), I still think m340i is closer to the standard that m3/c63 set.

Another thing I noticed but not covered in the video was that the v6 engine from c43 vibrated heavily at idle speed. To me the shake of the steering wheel and central console is unacceptable. I would not be surprised if Merc replaces the v6 with a l6 engine in the next gen c43.
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      07-07-2019, 07:39 PM   #75
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Agreed exhaust sound in C43 is sublime but I did drive the one with performance exhaust. Car feels a bit raw on the road but I find steering a bit soft in comfort and it actually feels kind of cheap even with upgraded leather. Keep in mind similarly equipped C43 cost almost $70k and local dealers are not willing to let them go for no more than 4-5% discount. I don’t see that many C43 for sale either so I don’t expect to get 10-12% off we can with M340.
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      07-07-2019, 09:55 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Cosmo_Kramer View Post
Agreed exhaust sound in C43 is sublime but I did drive the one with performance exhaust. Car feels a bit raw on the road but I find steering a bit soft in comfort and it actually feels kind of cheap even with upgraded leather. Keep in mind similarly equipped C43 cost almost $70k and local dealers are not willing to let them go for no more than 4-5% discount. I don't see that many C43 for sale either so I don't expect to get 10-12% off we can with M340.
10-12% off? Really? That's really a good deal.
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      07-08-2019, 12:39 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by ubchariot View Post
10-12% off? Really? That's really a good deal.
19% here

Last edited by waginen; 07-08-2019 at 12:44 PM..
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      07-08-2019, 03:22 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. They are young and they like sporty cars. Who doesn't when you're that age? I'm probably about 10 years older than they are and I still love sportier cars. The first thing I did to my F30 was install the M Perf suspension when I got it. They like the C43 because it's more exciting. To them, that's because of the exhaust note, sharper steering, and stiffer suspension tuning. Those were all design decisions made by BMW. BMW wanted to make their M340i closer to the 330i M Sport and really set apart the M3.

On the other hand, Mercedes wanted to make their C43 AMG closer to the C63 AMG. This is most obvious by the fact that they are using the exact same naming scheme. The C43 AMG IS meant to be an AMG car on a budget. The M340i is NOT meant to be an M3 on a budget. It's meant to be the BEST (sporty) normal G20 3 series. They're different philosophies and the reviewers touch on it at the end.

BMW surely could have made the car stiffer, louder, and more dynamic purely through tuning. But they didn't. The target audience for the M340i are the ones that want a more compliant ride but still be able to go fast in a straight line.

Just because THESE guys like the C43 AMG more doesn't mean it's better. They just prefer the sportier tuning. That and the manual option is the reason why I am not considering an M340i this generation and will just skip to the M3. For 90% of people who want a fast 3 series, though, the M340i is a GREAT car.
Everything you said would make sense IF Thomas (the car enthusiast) didn't pick the 330i M Sport at the end. Meaning that all those things you listed above (i.e., sharper exhaust note, sharper steering, and stiffer suspension tuning) had nothing to do with the actual winner of this test.

The C43 AMG was picked by James (the comedic relief).
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      07-08-2019, 04:02 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
I like all these cars but would get tired of soft/slow S4 and annoyed by abrupt/sharp C43. The M340i hits the middle with all the performance and none of the penalty.
This is a great take on these cars. If someone really wants the full on sports/race car they will get the M, AMG, or RS. This is meant to be the fun, usable, middle ground car. This is how they should be judged in my opinion.
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      07-09-2019, 11:11 AM   #80
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It's all relative to what you're used to. I'd suspect people who never drove an E46, E90, etc. would be thrilled after driving the new 340. Every review has basically said the same thing...it's much improved from the F30, but not even close to the good old days. I had driven an M2 just minutes before which also altered my perception, as that car is incredibly involving to drive.

Those older cars were a blast to even drive at the speed limit, the new one not so much. Just sort of cruises in comfort and isolation, with the grooves in the road having no effect on the steering wheel.
I agree to that. I have a F80 ZCP, it was great. A couple weeks ago I took it to local dealer for some small repair, and got a fully loaded M550 as loaner car and got to spend a couple days with it. The M550 has more power and AWD, I suspect it would beat my F80 in a stop-start situation, plus it's very comfort and luxurious (compare to 3 series), however, after a couple hours with it I know I wouldn't ever buy that car as long as I could buy a M3 or even M2. It just lacks the naughty M spirit, I guess those M turned regular car are for people who want a balance between performance and comfort.
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      07-10-2019, 12:28 AM   #81
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I agree to that. I have a F80 ZCP, it was great. A couple weeks ago I took it to local dealer for some small repair, and got a fully loaded M550 as loaner car and got to spend a couple days with it. The M550 has more power and AWD, I suspect it would beat my F80 in a stop-start situation, plus it's very comfort and luxurious (compare to 3 series), however, after a couple hours with it I know I wouldn't ever buy that car as long as I could buy a M3 or even M2. It just lacks the naughty M spirit, I guess those M turned regular car are for people who want a balance between performance and comfort.
Yeah exactly. What kind of sucks too is how you have to get a full on M car nowadays to feel some connection to the car. Back in the day even an entry-level 328i was insanely fun. M division products are very expensive, generally have too much power for normal roads, and [until recently] didn't offer AWD. They just don't make sense for most people.

My folks are in the market for a new SUV so I went with them to test drive the new X5. The saleswoman was obsessing over all this mindless tech and got pissy when I threw it into corners and rowed through the gears. She goes "it's a family SUV it's not meant to be sporty, you can get...I think it's called the X5M for that." What a knucklehead. Come take my mom's E70 M Sport for a spin and you'll see how a family SUV can be a blast to drive and not cost $100k in the process.
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