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      07-07-2019, 05:52 PM   #111
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      07-07-2019, 07:14 PM   #112
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Will they gain market share? Will there be a new direction for BMW? Most of their growth I think is in the Asian market therefore that might mean catering to Asian demands more than the USA, unfortunately for us. Hopefully he will bring back some performance and design reflecting BMW's great heritage!
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      07-07-2019, 09:27 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I just don't understand how it's a tale of two distinctly different companies even though the one is flying under the main banner of the one people are complaining about. For those that don't get what I'm saying, it's the BMW Motorad division. Everything people are complaining about with what has been lost with the 4 wheeled products has not been lost on the two wheeled products.

I just did 4 full track days with the older gen S1000RR in May and the bike continues to impress. From what I understand the current updated gen RR provides even more improvements to what I feel is an awesome package.

I wonder what the differences are with management philosophies/structure between the two divisions? One can say that you can't compare operations with motorcycles and autos. But I'll argue the M division would be a pretty close match and even with the M division there's been dissatisfaction.
BMW motorcycle is a true niche product, the rest is something they have to sell 2 million a year...
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      07-07-2019, 09:31 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Daaan View Post
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Originally Posted by Laki021 View Post
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Originally Posted by SchwarzerReiter View Post
You guys think that this guy personally oversees the design of every model, as if he'd design the interior, exterior and then drive and develop them on the Nurburgring.

He was a CEO. He speaks numbers and makes decisions according to them. His responsibility is to sell BMW cars while sticking to the ethos of the manufacturer if possible. But if stupid SUV-Coupes sell a lot, then guess what mates, that's what BMW is gonna focus on. The market hated Bangle's designs, so guess what, every BMW is boring now. And so on and so forth.

Also remember that BMW might be successful, but it doesnt have the massive means of the VW Group or Mercedes, both of which have the budget of a small country and yet it is expected to rival Audi, Mercedes and sometimes Porsche.
Why would BMW have lower budget than Mercedes?

They are pretty much the same size and sale similar number of vehicles.
Not really, sure they sell almost the same ammount cars....but Mercedes has a much bigger business than cars.

They build trucks, busses, corporate vehicels like vans, mini trucks and so on at very big numbers and therfore have much much more budget than BMW....just look at the F1 team, that says everything about Mercedes budget.
Yup, Mercedes sell 1 million more vehicle than BMW if you add the rest outside what the traditional NA market know as Mercedes
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      07-07-2019, 11:38 PM   #115
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The reclusive Quandt family are the ones that run the show behind the scenes..
https://youtu.be/FpQpgd_EeWY
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      07-08-2019, 12:02 AM   #116
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Wishing Mr. Krueger all the best.
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      07-08-2019, 04:17 AM   #117
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was the ceo just nervous here?
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      07-08-2019, 04:51 AM   #118
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Whoever is responsible for passing the latest hidious front grills should be sacked!!
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      07-08-2019, 05:36 AM   #119
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He looks too kind to pull off some 600HP RWD Manual M3 lol
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      07-08-2019, 10:38 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
I hope not. G20 and G30 are much better than E46 and E39.
Have you driven the E46s and E39s?
I've driven all 4 (E46, E39, G20, G30).
Might be better in terms of refinement and technology.
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      07-08-2019, 02:08 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
Have you driven the E46s and E39s?
I've driven all 4 (E46, E39, G20, G30).
Might be better in terms of refinement and technology.
No way the F or G is better for a driving passionate than E46 E39. Faster yes, better no.
The E39 was designed to be the best it can be at the time. None of the following have same philosophie.
I have one for 17 years now....not gonna sell it ever. It is one of the most classic car BMW ever made. There is a way it drives, it feels that is lost. And quality built, materials its second to none.
The e 46 is still a benchmark for 3 series how it should feel driving it.
Then there is the 1st z4 .... dare to anyone likes driving getting the m version out on twisty roads or track. The mechanical way it feels its priceless. Z3m clownshoe another ugly masterpiece.
Granted none as fast or economical as the new ones but...they have the bmw magic I like.
No supercars but men I love the pure engine noise, mechanical feel and most important how it makes me feel up on a twisty mountain road. the e90m and e60m, have my favorite engines. After this bmw became faster, more efficient, more luxurious...but the 3 series in particular kinda its magic feel. Speed has become focal point instead of general feel.
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      07-09-2019, 05:14 AM   #122
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Yup, and F series is the worst offender, G is better but still not back to its roots and given the larger customer base probably never will...
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      07-09-2019, 05:23 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
I drove the M5 Competition during the M Town tour event.
Wow - i was really disappointed in this car.

Is it Fast - hell yes. But there is no sensation of speed. Engine noise is muted and exhaust sound is just not great. My F80 M3 Comp is more raw, agile with way better steering feel.
I'm not sure why this new M5 is getting decent reviews - to me it felt like a big, fast, disconnected, luxury car. The auto transmission is slower than DCT and doesn't bang through gears like i can on my M3.

The E9x cars were the last great ones. Still had pure driving character and decent modern technology.
Not surprised.
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      07-09-2019, 03:58 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I just don't understand how it's a tale of two distinctly different companies even though the one is flying under the main banner of the one people are complaining about.

I wonder what the differences are with management philosophies/structure between the two divisions? One can say that you can't compare operations with motorcycles and autos. But I'll argue the M division would be a pretty close match and even with the M division there's been dissatisfaction.
different target market. 4 wheels, targeting ppl who care more about tech than driving to buy new cars in US and China
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      07-09-2019, 04:15 PM   #125
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If that CEO is responsible for bastardising the new M135i series with fwd platform & no 6 cylinder then GOOD RIDDANCE!
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      07-11-2019, 04:36 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahlem View Post
Ahhh i figured after the latest statements regarding EV development and the critic for not pushing the BMW i segment harder i guess this was expected.

Now we should see CEO who pushes for excellent EV driver cars, considering ICE vehicles are easy these days to make driver orientated with all the experience they got pretty much everyone knows how to do a proper ICE vehicle now lets see them do a proper BMW M i Car with a range of 500-600 km/h and a real proper drivers car. Looking forward for BMW's future now.
Wouldn't it be better to make a separate category/name for EV "M" cars and just let the real M line die with dignity?

I can't seem to understand all the hype about electric cars..yet

Sure, EV's are fast, but isn't having that angry roar when you mash the throttle like 70% of the driving experience?
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      07-12-2019, 10:15 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by zdbmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahlem View Post
Ahhh i figured after the latest statements regarding EV development and the critic for not pushing the BMW i segment harder i guess this was expected.

Now we should see CEO who pushes for excellent EV driver cars, considering ICE vehicles are easy these days to make driver orientated with all the experience they got pretty much everyone knows how to do a proper ICE vehicle now lets see them do a proper BMW M i Car with a range of 500-600 km/h and a real proper drivers car. Looking forward for BMW's future now.
Wouldn't it be better to make a separate category/name for EV "M" cars and just let the real M line die with dignity?

I can't seem to understand all the hype about electric cars..yet

Sure, EV's are fast, but isn't having that angry roar when you mash the throttle like 70% of the driving experience?
Except when every other EV over take you...
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      07-13-2019, 10:22 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe S View Post
Whoever is responsible for passing the latest hidious front grills should be sacked!!
Asian buyers allegedly prefer bolder grills. All makes are doing this but some brands have a symbol (ex, Mercedes) which is easier to scale up.
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      07-13-2019, 11:20 AM   #129
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe S View Post
Whoever is responsible for passing the latest hidious front grills should be sacked!!
Asian buyers allegedly prefer bolder grills. All makes are doing this but some brands have a symbol (ex, Mercedes) which is easier to scale up.
They don't care what disgruntled posters may think on an internet message board as long as they sell each and everyone they make, which they will.
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      07-16-2019, 12:05 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe S View Post
Whoever is responsible for passing the latest hidious front grills should be sacked!!
Asian buyers allegedly prefer bolder grills. All makes are doing this but some brands have a symbol (ex, Mercedes) which is easier to scale up.
They don't care what disgruntled posters may think on an internet message board as long as they sell each and everyone they make, which they will.
It's the design that is ugly more than size. The grill should never go higher than top of head lights line. This is what makes the grills look awkward . If you draw a line between top of head lights and start grill from there, it would look so much better. Anyone interested in showing this??
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      07-16-2019, 10:36 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
They don't care what disgruntled posters may think on an internet message board as long as they sell each and everyone they make, which they will.
Exactly!

The Asian market which is what BMW are targeting with some of their models love big grills hence why we have monstrosities like the G11 LCI.

I actually met Harald Krueger last year at the Goodwood FoS, nice enough guy but clearly, something has gone wrong for Mercedes to have overtaken BMW. Not sure if he has the final sign off on design related decisions though?
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      07-16-2019, 10:38 AM   #132
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Quote:
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It's the design that is ugly more than size. The grill should never go higher than top of head lights line. This is what makes the grills look awkward . If you draw a line between top of head lights and start grill from there, it would look so much better. Anyone interested in showing this??
Prepare for this, the 8er LCI
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