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      07-16-2019, 04:27 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Yup, Mercedes sell 1 million more vehicle than BMW if you add the rest outside what the traditional NA market know as Mercedes
Exactly ... though by some measures, the gap is not that wide:

Mercedes' parent company: Daimler AG
BMW's parent company: BMW Group
Daimler AG 2018 gross revenue, worldwide: 167B Euro
BMW AG 2018 gross revenue, worldwide: 98.5B Euro


Laki021 : Move away from the keyboard and learn about economies of scale and the automotive industry in general before posting such an ignorant statement. It'll save you some grief.
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      07-18-2019, 01:47 PM   #134
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It's official now: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...ment-of-bmw-ag
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      07-18-2019, 02:27 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Exactly ... though by some measures, the gap is not that wide:

Mercedes' parent company: Daimler AG
BMW's parent company: BMW Group
Daimler AG 2018 gross revenue, worldwide: 167B Euro
BMW AG 2018 gross revenue, worldwide: 98.5B Euro


Laki021 : Move away from the keyboard and learn about economies of scale and the automotive industry in general before posting such an ignorant statement. It'll save you some grief.
you dont think 68.5 billion euros is not that big of a gap? i would be happy to have 0.1% of that in my bank account. The larger market cap would allow mercedes to get more funding for R&D, manufacturing and other costs. Keep in mind, cars costs billions to develop and take 5yr or more years to see a return on investment. Thats a lot of money to float for 5yrs.

Both companies are small but mercedes probably had access to more resources to execute some their current successes versus BMW with a smaller pool of funds.

This also means BMW has a lot less room for mistakes.
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      07-18-2019, 02:46 PM   #136
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I think Kruger did a ok job...if this was 10yrs ago, his contract would probably be renewed. We're currently at a time with mass change in the auto industry. Most new car buyers now want a iphone with wheels. Tesla is proof of that, outselling audi last yr and taking the customers that would've normally bought a BMW, Mercedes or porsche 5yrs ago.

You have to maintain a balancing act of investing in EV, while still making money off of ICE cars.

GM is letting go of all its metal benders so they can hire more programmers. GM is trying to transform into a tech company from a car company.

The board probably wanted a person that can perform a better balancing act between ICE and EV and had a better vision for ev's.
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      07-19-2019, 06:22 AM   #137
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Not sure if people just want iPhone on wheels, off the line, in the city most e car will drive better than ICE (so even Leaf what not other car)

Given Model 3 Performance recent price drop I would be worried as hell if I'm on BMW board, M3 or better performance (at least straight line and it doesn't handle that bad) for less than M340i money
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      07-19-2019, 10:14 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Not sure if people just want iPhone on wheels, off the line, in the city most e car will drive better than ICE (so even Leaf what not other car)

Given Model 3 Performance recent price drop I would be worried as hell if I'm on BMW board, M3 or better performance (at least straight line and it doesn't handle that bad) for less than M340i money
well the Germans are worried about Tesla..there not afraid of anyone else. The porsche president of sales even stated he was impressed how many teslas were sold given they have no real dealership network or sales infrastructure.

I'm happy to see an American company step up and finally give the Germans a run for their money.
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      07-19-2019, 10:24 AM   #139
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Here's why Oliver Zipse emerged as the new BMW CEO, according to Bloomberg:

MUNICH -- At BMW AG’s annual presentation results in March, head of production Oliver Zipse was unfazed by Brexit -- then looming just nine days later -- and the future of the carmaker’s iconic Mini model, unlike industry peers.

Things would have to get a great deal worse than the tariffs anticipated by the company to challenge BMW’s U.K. production sites, he said.

It’s the kind of steeliness and conviction, also revealed when quizzed about U.S. President Donald Trump plans to hit Mexico with tariffs just as BMW built a plant there, that probably got Zipse BMW’s top job. Often speaking with a half smile, the 55-year-old BMW lifer is taking over the world’s second-biggest luxury carmaker to reinject momentum into a company that’s gone from being a leader in the transition to electric cars to a company searching for direction.

Zipse’s confidence and powers of persuasion, evident from his patient explanations with painstaking detail to reporters, will be in demand after predecessor Harald Krueger’s wavering on big decisions produced unhelpful divisions on BMW’s management board.

Zipse inherits a company with the building blocks to craft a future as the automotive rule book is being rewritten. Under Krueger -- and Zipse as head of production -- BMW started a record product rollout designed to deliver the profits necessary to pay for the electric and self-driving revolution, to make models such as the X7 crossover and sporty 8-series coupe.

“A lot is on the table,” Credit Suisse analyst Daniel Schwarz said in a note. “Despite this, it looks like a good time to become CEO. BMW generates cash flow despite trough margins.”

Trade tensions and slowing markets have capped the results of that effort, but BMW’s sales this year are still leading rivals, gaining 1.6 percent during the first half, compared with declines of 4.6 percent at Mercedes-Benz and 5.8 percent at Audi. Zipse will succeed 53-year-old Krueger, who’s stepped down after just one four-year term following struggles to set a course for the German luxury-car maker, on Aug. 16, BMW said Thursday in a statement.

“With Oliver Zipse, a decisive strategic and analytical leader will” become CEO, Chairman Norbert Reithofer said. “He will provide the BMW Group with fresh momentum in shaping the mobility of the future.”

Traditional track

BMW is continuing a tradition of plucking leaders well-versed in the detailed interplay required to assemble premium cars at scale. Reithofer, a former CEO, also served as production chief, as has Krueger.

The question is whether the skills needed to run high-precision manufacturing operations will translate into nailing changing technology and customer habits in a company built around autobahn driving thrills.

Zipse has kept a low public profile and is not well known outside of BMW, but his elevation to CEO appears to be a prudent move by the automaker, Evercore said in a research note. “BMW opts for stability and continuity by nominating a well proven member of its management team. In a hugely volatile and unpredictable world, this might be a wise decision,” it said.

While churning out like clockwork ever-new models like the X2 and X7 crossovers, the company has been more tentative with electric vehicles. It squandered a head-start marked by the 2013 introduction of the i3, a plug-in model built on an innovative carbon-fiber frame. Its next battery-powered cars will be variants of the Mini and BMW X3.

Even with the cautious approach, spending on vehicle development contributed to eroding profitability.

Board tensions

In the first quarter, BMW’s automotive division posted its first loss in a decade amid slumping car prices, fallout from trade tensions and legal provisions related to alleged collusion. In March, the company announced a 12 billion-euro ($13.5 billion) savings plan and said it would hold headcount steady this year.

As head of production, Zipse, a 28-year BMW veteran, has championed a manufacturing system that allows electric, hybrid and conventional cars to roll off the same line to boost flexibility amid uncertain demand. He was appointed to top management ranks in May 2015 to succeed Krueger as production chief. Prior to that, he ran product strategy and oversaw the company’s Mini factory in Oxford, England.

Unlike many of his counterparts on BMW’s management board, Zipse studied abroad, taking courses in computer science and mathematics at the University of Utah in the 1980s. He received a mechanical engineering degree from Technical University Darmstadt before joining BMW as a trainee in 1991.

One of Zipse’s key challenges will be uniting BMW’s fractious leadership on future partnerships. While the company pushed forward with a tie-up on car sharing and autonomous driving with rival Daimler AG in recent years, boardroom tension has prevented deeper cooperation on new models or electric cars.
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      07-19-2019, 11:07 AM   #140
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hopefully they can make the next i8 a more of a super car competitior..if lotus can make a 2000hp electric super car i'm sure bmw can.

it would be cool to be able to see a i4 M and a i3 M as well.
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      07-19-2019, 11:47 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
you dont think 68.5 billion euros is not that big of a gap? ... This also means BMW has a lot less room for mistakes.
Read my post again: 'By some measures'. By some other measures, Daimler is five to six times larger than BMW Group. BMW Group is essentially a small automaker compared to some of the big 'uns like Daimler, GM, Ford, FCA Italy, TMC, Honda, and VW AG -- seven behemoths that are leaps and bounds larger than BMW. And folks wonder why automakers both large and small are starting to partner to develop new technologies?

The gross-revenue figure helps demonstrate that by somewhat strict automotive measures, BMW is only half the size of Daimler. Yet it's having to play the big boys' games. So, yes: not much room for mistakes. And: that's why BMW is hedging its bets with products that satisfy lower common denominators and leave enthusiasts such as us wondering where our Exx M3s went. It's survival, in a game where it can't make many mistakes.
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      07-19-2019, 11:56 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Read my post again: 'By some measures'. By some other measures, Daimler is five to six times larger than BMW Group. BMW Group is essentially a small automaker compared to some of the big 'uns like Daimler, GM, Ford, FCA Italy, TMC, Honda, and VW AG -- seven behemoths that are leaps and bounds larger than BMW. And folks wonder why automakers both large and small are starting to partner to develop new technologies?

The gross-revenue figure helps demonstrate that by somewhat strict automotive measures, BMW is only half the size of Daimler. Yet it's having to play the big boys' games. So, yes: not much room for mistakes. And: that's why BMW is hedging its bets with products that satisfy lower common denominators and leave enthusiasts such as us wondering where our Exx M3s went. It's survival, in a game where it can't make many mistakes.

i think market caps would be a more accurate way of determining a companys access to equity markets.

similar to how tesla loses 300mil a quarter vs GM which makes a net profit of 1billion a quarter but they have similar market caps.

But i understand what you mean.
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      07-20-2019, 12:48 PM   #143
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as long as he kills the "let's add a grand coupe to everything we build", i'll continue with the brand. otherwise, this shit is stale and i'm headed elsewhere
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      07-20-2019, 01:38 PM   #144
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In what world is bmw the leader in the transition to ev?
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      07-20-2019, 02:00 PM   #145
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Would he be able to fix the new M3 facia
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      07-20-2019, 02:58 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Read my post again: 'By some measures'. By some other measures, Daimler is five to six times larger than BMW Group. BMW Group is essentially a small automaker compared to some of the big 'uns like Daimler, GM, Ford, FCA Italy, TMC, Honda, and VW AG -- seven behemoths that are leaps and bounds larger than BMW. And folks wonder why automakers both large and small are starting to partner to develop new technologies?

The gross-revenue figure helps demonstrate that by somewhat strict automotive measures, BMW is only half the size of Daimler. Yet it's having to play the big boys' games. So, yes: not much room for mistakes. And: that's why BMW is hedging its bets with products that satisfy lower common denominators and leave enthusiasts such as us wondering where our Exx M3s went. It's survival, in a game where it can't make many mistakes.
I think a lot of people overlook this fact or don't know it at all. Despite all the marketing of BMW being placed on lists that put them above other manufacturers, BMW is a relatively small company compared to those you list - you consider that and what they have done over the years and it's pretty damn amazing.
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      07-20-2019, 06:20 PM   #147
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Hold on just a second...how did the guy from "the Mentalist" come out of nowhere to become BMW CEO??!
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      07-21-2019, 04:16 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
you dont think 68.5 billion euros is not that big of a gap? ... This also means BMW has a lot less room for mistakes.
Read my post again: 'By some measures'. By some other measures, Daimler is five to six times larger than BMW Group. BMW Group is essentially a small automaker compared to some of the big 'uns like Daimler, GM, Ford, FCA Italy, TMC, Honda, and VW AG -- seven behemoths that are leaps and bounds larger than BMW. And folks wonder why automakers both large and small are starting to partner to develop new technologies?

The gross-revenue figure helps demonstrate that by somewhat strict automotive measures, BMW is only half the size of Daimler. Yet it's having to play the big boys' games. So, yes: not much room for mistakes. And: that's why BMW is hedging its bets with products that satisfy lower common denominators and leave enthusiasts such as us wondering where our Exx M3s went. It's survival, in a game where it can't make many mistakes.
I would love to hear by which measures...

BMW and Mercedes are the same size companies, Daimler is a bit bigger (~30%) but that's not important since they run few pretty much independent businesses, they all require their own separate R&D budgets. Tomorrow they can decide to split the company and Mercedes would be by far the largest one of them.

Mercedes does not have any advantage to BMW when it comes to money and how much they can invest.
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      07-21-2019, 04:20 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
hopefully they can make the next i8 a more of a super car competitior..if lotus can make a 2000hp electric super car i'm sure bmw can.

it would be cool to be able to see a i4 M and a i3 M as well.
Latest statements and Vision M Next concept car show this will be not the case. The M brand will be the M brand and the i brand something else that you probably don't want.
Development Chief Fröhlich sees PHEV as the next step for M cars.
And latest research analysis of the Fraunhofner Institut (something like the German MIT) shows battery vehicles only up to 50kWh useful in terms of efficiency (weight) and production emissions. BEV is best for city and suburban cars but for long range fuel cell (H2) is the future and PHEV more reasonable in the meantime. Allows also a much smoother industrial transition. It's simply yet impossible to build huge batteries for every car of the world. Li-Io isn't the right stuff for that.
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      07-21-2019, 10:04 AM   #150
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Betting this gentleman desires 4 foot grills, call it a hunch.
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      07-21-2019, 10:30 AM   #151
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Best Wishes For Success

I wish him the very best and hope he can bring vision and charisma so vital to steer BMW in the right direction.

Don’t forget design Mr. Zipse!
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      07-21-2019, 01:06 PM   #152
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Running and especially transforming large companies is one of the difficult tasks for any CEO. I wish Mr. Zipse both success and luck (defined as preparation meets opportunity).

The automotive industry graveyard is littered with decaying remnants of ideas which tried to be all things to all people. GM is a stellar example with Saturn, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile.

To protect the innocent in a conversation (which actually happened) titled "how consumer life stages match the product line".

- Student: "they have a Corolla"
- Graduate / no kids / dating: "they have a Celica"
- Small family: "they have a Camry"
- Large family: "they have a Siena"
- Young son: "they have a RAV4"
- Older son who loves the desert: "they have a 4Runner"
- Daughter who's environmentally active: "they have a Prius"
- Children in college: "they have this thing called Lexus with many models to support different mid life crisis intensities"
- Expat assignment to an exotic country: "they have a Land Cruiser"

"We don't have this ..."

Very few companies have the operating patience and strategic vision to execute the above.
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      07-21-2019, 01:33 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Adrian van Hooydonk is the head of BMW design...

It's the Board of Directors that makes all the final design choices.
Seeing his hairdo, i now understand his design choices.
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      07-21-2019, 01:40 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchwarzerReiter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Adrian van Hooydonk is the head of BMW design...

It's the Board of Directors that makes all the final design choices.
Seeing his hairdo, i now understand his design choices.
I can't imagine how stupid your hair style might look-

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