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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Why is the new Supra quicker in the 1/4 mile than the M340i?

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      07-09-2019, 04:07 PM   #1
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Why is the new Supra quicker in the 1/4 mile than the M340i?

So I've been seeing the test vids and the new Supra is doing the 1/4mile in 12.0 flat..... M340i 12.5.... both cars are close enough in weight that it shouldn't be a factor.... Sooooo?????
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      07-09-2019, 04:20 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
So I've been seeing the test vids and the new Supra is doing the 1/4mile in 12.0 flat..... M340i 12.5.... both cars are close enough in weight that it shouldn't be a factor.... Sooooo?????
RWD or AWD? I don't think the weight is that close, btw. Especially for the M340, depends on how it was spec'd. That extra tech is heavy.
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      07-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Pauleebe View Post
RWD or AWD? I don't think the weight is that close, btw. Especially for the M340, depends on how it was spec'd. That extra tech is heavy.
The M340i is not in this video but I know it's running 12.5 same as the Z4

https://g29.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1631315
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      07-09-2019, 07:02 PM   #4
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The weight isn't that close. The m340i weighs around 3800 lbs and the Supra weighs around 3300. Are the two cars geared similarly? Tires might also be a factor.

The fact that the z4 isn't closer to the Supra is strange, but the z4 in the above video is a convertible, adding a lot of weight to the car.
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      07-09-2019, 07:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
The weight isn't that close. The m340i weighs around 3800 lbs and the Supra weighs around 3300. Are the two cars geared similarly? Tires might also be a factor.

The fact that the z4 isn't closer to the Supra is strange, but the z4 in the above video is a convertible, adding a lot of weight to the car.
They said in the video that the weight difference is really not gonna make a difference it's so close or something like that.. like 40kilos... 88lbs.... it's basically a tenth for every 100lbs...

but I did see 12.5 for the M340i... which isn't bad but I'd rather it be 12.0 you know what I mean...

Last edited by FastF30; 07-09-2019 at 07:15 PM..
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      07-09-2019, 07:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
The weight isn't that close. The m340i weighs around 3800 lbs and the Supra weighs around 3300. Are the two cars geared similarly? Tires might also be a factor.

The fact that the z4 isn't closer to the Supra is strange, but the z4 in the above video is a convertible, adding a lot of weight to the car.
They said in the video that the weight difference is really not gonna make a difference it's so close or something like that.. like 40kilos... 88lbs.... it's basically a tenth for every 100lbs...

but I did see 12.5 for the M340i... which isn't bad but I'd rather it be 12.0 you know what I mean...
I think the Supra in this video has the 335bhp version of the B58 engine, not the 382bhp version that the M340 gets (but might be wrong). That's why they are very surprised at the time it turns in, and hypothesize that it actually has more power than Toyota is advertising.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the 12.5sec being quoted for the M340 xdrive was from an old Car Wow video where it is running against an M2C. And they put the M340 on the damp side of the track. When you watch the video it launches slower than the M2C, so there is some time lost in that launch.
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      07-09-2019, 07:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
The weight isn't that close. The m340i weighs around 3800 lbs and the Supra weighs around 3300. Are the two cars geared similarly? Tires might also be a factor.

The fact that the z4 isn't closer to the Supra is strange, but the z4 in the above video is a convertible, adding a lot of weight to the car.
They said in the video that the weight difference is really not gonna make a difference it's so close or something like that.. like 40kilos... 88lbs.... it's basically a tenth for every 100lbs...

but I did see 12.5 for the M340i... which isn't bad but I'd rather it be 12.0 you know what I mean...
According to the specs I've seen, the Supra weighs 3397 and the m340i xdrive weighs 3968. I think 571 lbs will make a difference. If the m340i being featured is US spec, it might be rwd and weigh 100 lbs or so less, but there's still a substantial difference in weight.

Also c&d suspected that Toyota is underrating the hp on the Supra and ran it on a dyno. They found that the Supra was achieving 339 hp and 427 max torque at the rear wheels. That means, accounting for drivetrain loss, the Supra is putting out about 400 hp and 500 lb ft torque at the crank. Bmw might be underrating the m340i too, so to be fair, let's say that the b58 has similar output in both cars (though I think Toyota might have tuned the b58 to have higher output).

To sum it up, it's the same engine with similar output in both cars, but the Supra weighs substantially less, and likely has a more favorable drag coefficient too, being a smaller car.

As a side note, c&d got 12.3 with the Supra in the 1/4 mile. All said and done, I think the difference makes sense.
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      07-09-2019, 10:33 PM   #8
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The Z4 wasn't a US spec so it wasn't as powerful as the ones we have here but still, that Supra walked it.. I think we need a real world M340I vs the Supra to see how things pan out because if the supra is faster than all of BMW's M performance models, that's not a good look.
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      07-10-2019, 11:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastF30 View Post
They said in the video that the weight difference is really not gonna make a difference it's so close or something like that.. like 40kilos... 88lbs.... it's basically a tenth for every 100lbs...

but I did see 12.5 for the M340i... which isn't bad but I'd rather it be 12.0 you know what I mean...
a tenth for every 100lbs. the M340 is 571 pounds heavier.
5.71*.10=.571 hence 12.5 vs 12.0
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      07-10-2019, 12:52 PM   #10
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The supra also has a much better drag coefficient I would think.
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      07-10-2019, 01:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
The supra also has a much better drag coefficient I would think.
I wouldn't assume that. The G20's CoD is only 0.23
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      07-10-2019, 01:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
The supra also has a much better drag coefficient I would think.
I wouldn't assume that. The G20's CoD is only 0.23
Agreed. M340s drag coefficient is best in class, and it's very hard to get any car much below 0.23.
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      07-10-2019, 03:01 PM   #13
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Only one way to settle this.... who has a Supra?
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      07-10-2019, 05:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjohnsonsg View Post
Agreed. M340s drag coefficient is best in class, and it's very hard to get any car much below 0.23.
Not sure what the drag coefficient on the supra is, but it certainly has a lower frontal area which you have to consider along with the drag coefficient.

If you had a drag coefficient of .23 on a mini, and .23 on a 7 series, the 7 would still have more drag due to the larger surface.

There's also the 500lbs weight difference, different transmission programming, and I'm not sure what the final drive ratio is on the 3 and supra so they may be different too
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      07-10-2019, 11:12 PM   #15
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As I mentioned earlier, Toyota has also underrated the output of the b58 in the Supra too. C&D put it on a dyno and it generated something like 339 hp and 427 lb ft tq at the rear wheels.
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