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      01-29-2019, 08:39 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by MR_M2 View Post
Imagine this dick move from bmw:
Sells S55 in pure for 2 model years; emissions get stricter and they drop a S58 into the pure later.
Won't be the first time for BMW
I thought about this...kind of thinking maybe I should just buy out my F82 and wait until toward end of the G80/2/3 run to get one. ED of course. Maybe 40th bday gift to myself. Got a few years to wait and see!
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      01-29-2019, 08:53 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Just because transmission aren't exploding as soon as a car is tuned doesn't mean "it handles the power fine."

A transmission is designed to withstand a certain amount of stress in order to be reliable under all conditions for some amount of miles.

Exceeding that stress reduces performance or increases the likelihood of failure. Period. Either BMW is willing to accept that increased risk of failure, or they will need to improve the design.

It's called a safety factor, and it's a basic tenant of engineering. You have no way of knowing what the design limits of this trans are or what it would take to handle the extra 46hp.
I'd say it's not only the transmission, but also the interface between engine and transmission that is at stake. Maybe a higher tune version of the B58 could be more prone to failure from mishandling through a manual transmission.
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      01-29-2019, 09:37 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
Not to be rude, but why by a Motorsport car if you want conforts? A 340i will be wya cheaper, and way more suited to your needs.

An M car is set up for tracking, and why would you want power you can't use and suspension that transfers bumps to your back?
are you serious? what percentage of M owners actually take their car to the track? i would say less than 10% (talking out of my ass here). but it's definitely a minority. the beauty of M cars (at least to me) is their duality. track car if you want but also a great daily driver. i dont want an 340i. i dont want a stripped out M3. i want an M3 with options and a 6 spd.

and what logic is it that the more track focused M3s would have more options? shouldn't those be even more stripped down?
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      01-29-2019, 10:01 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by omaralt View Post
the problem is that last time i read that the pure model will be more bare bones. i hope thats not the case. i dont track my cars; i want a manual and creature comforts. HUD, CA, heated seats, etc. if they strip away the pure model than i'm afraid it wont sell well
The Pure model is unlikely to be any more "bare bones" when it comes to available options than any other M3/M4. The reason is that the optional content and features increase profitability.

Sure, we can look at a vehicle like an M4 GTS and note that it lacks certain options, but that car has massive margins already due to the exhorbitant base MSRP. An M4 CS follows a similar strategy.

An M4 Pure, on the other hand, is not going to be able to command a higher MSRP than a standard M4 - in fact it may very well be priced slightly lower given the lack of AWD. BMW is therefore going to want buyers to add costly option packages to increase profit on the vehicle. Expect to be able to option it just like you can a standard M4 today.
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      01-29-2019, 10:14 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The Pure model is unlikely to be any more "bare bones" when it comes to available options than any other M3/M4. The reason is that the optional content and features increase profitability.

Sure, we can look at a vehicle like an M4 GTS and note that it lacks certain options, but that car has massive margins already due to the exhorbitant base MSRP. An M4 CS follows a similar strategy.

An M4 Pure, on the other hand, is not going to be able to command a higher MSRP than a standard M4 - in fact it may very well be priced slightly lower given the lack of AWD. BMW is therefore going to want buyers to add costly option packages to increase profit on the vehicle. Expect to be able to option it just like you can a standard M4 today.
thats what i'm hoping for.
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      01-29-2019, 10:22 AM   #138
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So I did not read anywhere but, I am guessing that the AWD won't be able to be turned off like in the M5?? To make it a RWD car when you want. This seems like it would be the best option for BMW.
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      01-29-2019, 10:30 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
M3 Pure will probably be at least 150 lbs lighter than Base or Comp. If it is a unique S58 for that model, makes me wonder if it is a lighter engine due to materials or something.
If that's the case I don't think that much weight difference is worth not getting the base or comp models...
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      01-29-2019, 10:53 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by omaralt View Post
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Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
Interesting to see how many people will take Pure+Manual+RWD.
the problem is that last time i read that the pure model will be more bare bones. i hope thats not the case. i dont track my cars; i want a manual and creature comforts. HUD, CA, heated seats, etc. if they strip away the pure model than i'm afraid it wont sell well
Not to be rude, but why by a Motorsport car if you want conforts? A 340i will be wya cheaper, and way more suited to your needs.

An M car is set up for tracking, and why would you want power you can't use and suspension that transfers bumps to your back?
M cars are set up for getting groceries, not tracking. I don't think the f80 even has camber adjustment, you need plates. M cars are still setup from factory as fun daily drivers.
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      01-29-2019, 11:00 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin fed View Post
So I did not read anywhere but, I am guessing that the AWD won't be able to be turned off like in the M5?? To make it a RWD car when you want. This seems like it would be the best option for BMW.
If it's like the m5 you only get rwd with all the safety features off, which is lame because I wouldn't typically drive with everything off on the street.
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      01-29-2019, 11:02 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
If it's like the m5 you only get rwd with all the safety features off, which is lame because I wouldn't typically drive with everything off on the street.

I did not realize that. That seems pretty lame.
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      01-29-2019, 11:05 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
M3 Pure will probably be at least 150 lbs lighter than Base or Comp. If it is a unique S58 for that model, makes me wonder if it is a lighter engine due to materials or something.
If that's the case I don't think that much weight difference is worth not getting the base or comp models...
I'm saying at least 150 less but who knows maybe it will be 300 lbs lighter. I would be astonished if it is any more than that.
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      01-29-2019, 11:08 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin fed View Post
So I did not read anywhere but, I am guessing that the AWD won't be able to be turned off like in the M5?? To make it a RWD car when you want. This seems like it would be the best option for BMW.
If it's like the m5 you only get rwd with all the safety features off, which is lame because I wouldn't typically drive with everything off on the street.
I bet it has to do with the nannies only functioning on the AWD algorithm. Maybe we get lucky and they make it truly RWD or AWD with some safety systems. That would be fantastic. Regardless I'm sure it will drive/handle closer to a RWD car than an AWD car at all times.
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      01-29-2019, 11:10 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin fed View Post
So I did not read anywhere but, I am guessing that the AWD won't be able to be turned off like in the M5?? To make it a RWD car when you want. This seems like it would be the best option for BMW.
The difference is that a true rwd car would have the simpler transmission with no transfer case, no front differential, no front drive shafts and no x badges. Each of those save substantial weight. Little known fact, but the x badge is heavier than any other badge.
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      01-29-2019, 11:10 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
I'm a purist. Give me the 6MT + cloth seats + RWD all day long.

This is all good news to me.



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      01-29-2019, 11:20 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
M3 Pure will probably be at least 150 lbs lighter than Base or Comp. If it is a unique S58 for that model, makes me wonder if it is a lighter engine due to materials or something.
Why would they spend money to develop a lighter engine and not use it for all G8x M3/M4 models? I can't envision a scenario where it makes sense to invest additional money into the Pure model in areas where parts would otherwise be shared across all models. The entire business case for the Pure model will no doubt be to find a cost effective (justifiable) way to build a car for those who still want a 6MT and RWD. This means very carefully controlling bespoken content for that model.

I agree that the Pure model will quite probably be the lightest one due to the lack of AWD and because the MT will presumably be lighter than whatever automatic transmission the other models use (almost surely the ZF8). I would further agree that this is likely to account for somewhere in the ballpark of 150Lb, yes.
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      01-29-2019, 12:28 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
FYI. There are many people with both manual and DCT F80/82s with a shit ton of tuned miles on the odometer. Say 20,000+ tuned miles.
Thinking that 20K miles is sufficient to make a reliability judgment is so very BMW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CachacoF80 View Post
Base and Pure (manual option) should have the same power figures (and ~25hp higher than ZCP today). and released 1-2 years before the Competition.
No, all coming out at the same time.
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Originally Posted by Mii View Post
We may guess 510hp (CS), 555hp (GTS) based on the percentage gained from G80/G82 (Competition) over current F80/F82 models?
Decisions for limited edition models are not done this far ahead. The picture only gets clearer once the mass model is released. This helps to understand the market, and limited edition cars work best later in the model lifecycle when demand for something new, something better increases.
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The 18/19” wheels concerns me, as this size would likely mean no optional CCB with 18’s.
Bigger wheels are optional, but CCBs may still be limited to Comp for marketing or availability reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_M2 View Post
Sells S55 in pure for 2 model years; emissions get stricter and they drop a S58 into the pure later.
Don't worry. S58 for all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The Pure model is unlikely to be any more "bare bones" when it comes to available options than any other M3/M4. The reason is that the optional content and features increase profitability.
Correct. Other than CCB, I'm seeing all options on all versions.
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      01-29-2019, 01:50 PM   #149
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Something for everyone

BMW is offering something for everyone. Let’s hope that the market recognizes this and rewards them with sales otherwise the “Purists” will never get another chance to get the car they always moan is not offered.
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      01-29-2019, 02:02 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
January 2019 Update:
[*]Three performance levels: 444hp (Pure), 475hp ("base"), and 500hp (Competition)
This is very disappointing.
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      01-29-2019, 02:16 PM   #151
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New 911 (992) went up in price/weight/size....

It is not 'only' BMW.

BMW at least offers the M2 for people who object to a larger vehicle.

If they deliver a lighter pure model, IMO - People are discounting how good this car could be.

Lighter weight cars always feels better over time, may not be noticeable on a test drive, but over time it wins out, IMO.

I see this G80 as a nimble M5 from days of old. People who compare the M4 to an E46 are missing the mark. The M2 is the comparison for the E46 M3.
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      01-29-2019, 02:23 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
New 911 (992) went up in price/weight/size....

It is not 'only' BMW.

BMW at least offers the M2 for people who object to a larger vehicle.

If they deliver a lighter pure model, IMO - People are discounting how good this car could be.

Lighter weight cars always feels better over time, may not be noticeable on a test drive, but over time it wins out, IMO.

I see this G80 as a nimble M5 from days of old. People who compare the M4 to an E46 are missing the mark. The M2 is the comparison for the E46 M3.
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      01-29-2019, 02:56 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
If it's like the m5 you only get rwd with all the safety features off, which is lame because I wouldn't typically drive with everything off on the street.
Then why do you care if the car is in RWD mode or not? At 7/10 and below; it's likely that you would never know the difference.
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      01-29-2019, 03:10 PM   #154
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
FYI. There are many people with both manual and DCT F80/82s with a shit ton of tuned miles on the odometer. Say 20,000+ tuned miles.
Thinking that 20K miles is sufficient to make a reliability judgment is so very BMW.
I threw out a random figure. I'm sure some have been running "tunes" way beyond the 20,000 I posted.

I get your meaning but what's reliable nowadays? Honda Civic reliable? Is that the Metric? If that's the case BMWs off the assembly line are unreliable.
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