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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions M340i vs G70 3.3T Sport Comparo. Hits 3.8s 0-60 in Instrumented Test

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      10-24-2019, 06:18 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
it's not insecurity, it's just a mismatch comparo
Just because kia stole german sell-outs engineers and hudai paid for these dumb comparos doesn't make those 2 cars on the same list.

what's next? velociter vs 911? and kia will win 'cause it's 1/3 the price?

The only car company that could build up to MB/BMW/Audi/Porsche level is Lexus and maybe partially Infiniti.
But Toyota makes amazing cars not like kia/huidai with their "me-too" cars to compete and undercut Camry/Civic/Accord/Corolla by 1-2K
Toyota make the best "real" SUVs in the world, sorry break-everyday Land Rover, it's true. Toyota makes amazing luxury cars and SUVs and could be elevated to other luxury brands with their Lexus line.
kia/huidai is not gonna get there, ever, not with their stupid Bentley wanna be logos or cute Genesis names.

Again, the only person who will buy a Kia over BMW is a person who wants to save money and pretend like it's almost as good. Those are who these type of reviews are catering to.

Reminds me of a guy wearing Invicta arguing with Submariner owner. Oh your Sub is only 300m WR well my Invicta has 1000m water resistance...Who cares, you just chuckle and walk away.
You make it seem like the 3 series is some really nice car. It's an entry level luxury car (by American definitions). IMO, the F30 was pretty bad for the enthusiast. It has a relatively cheap interior compared to its direct competition, less power for its top end line (335/340 vs C43 vs S4), and didn't have the great handling/steering feel of previous BMWs. Its only saving grace, and the reason why I got my 335i was because of the manual transmission and to some extent the styling. IMO, the G70 is very comparable to the F30 generation but with better handling.

Comparing a G70 to a 3 series makes complete sense. Comparing a Hyundai Veloster to a 911 doesn't make any sense. You have a skewed sense of how good BMWs are if you think a 3 series is as good as or nicer than a 911. Because the G70 is surely nicer than a Veloster.
You have to check out the car and driver article to know why people are reacting this way. They did a side by side instrumented test, in which the g20 m340i performed significantly better in nearly every metric. The author then goes on to say that the m340i handled better, has engineering on a whole other level, and is an athletic feeling car to drive. Then at the end they recommend the g70 because it's "cheaper" and probably good enough for the average slob who doesn't know good engineering from his a$& anyway - or something to that effect. It's nonsense, and frankly, suggests that c&d has been receiving envelopes from kia.
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      10-24-2019, 06:25 PM   #112
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C+D has long lost credibility, I have my car on the most aggressive settings and even then, it is never stiff even with the non adaptive suspension and runflats. I can't fathom how they call this car stiff unless theirs was on cut spring lol.
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      10-24-2019, 07:54 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggler View Post
The commentary from the review about the busy suspension and iDrive7 being difficult told me the reviewer was lacking seat time to fully understand the car... Probably had the suspension set aggressive and the iDrive has a learning curve that requires time to understand. I guarantee the same reviewer would be whistling a different tune if they had to live with the M340 for a month of commutes.

Important note to anyone researching buying between the two cars:

The price discrepancy is completely overstated when you start optioning the two cars out and researching the market. For starters, some of the extras in the review place the M340i beyond what the G70 offers. So cancel those options to make it an apples-to-apples comparison.

The M340i comes standard with a sports package and lots of other equipment for a base $54K. On the other hand, you need to take a base G70 and add the $5,600 sport package like they did in the review to make the cars anywhere near comparable. Now you need to take the base M340i and add premium package, driving assistance, 19" performance wheels, premium leather/ambient lighting, dynamic suspension, and park distance to make it a $51,245 vs $60,750 apples to apples comparison. Now head over to truecar and do market research on what sort of deal you can expect to get. There's less margin in the G70... with good negotiating skills, expect to pay 49.5K for the aforementioned G70 and expect to pay $55.5K for the aforementioned M340i. So the price discrepancy on average is $6K for a clearly superior car.

This constantly mentioned price discrepancy is a load of crap peddled by Genesis apologists who can't accept that their car, based on it's own merits, cannot stand up to BMW's latest engineering effort. Knowledge is power.
This is what no one mentioned until 5 pages into this thread. This is the real world price difference and shatters C&D main point. For 6k it's essentially a wash and you get the BMW hands down. I tested both and was really tempted by the G70 for about a weekend until I really looked at the numbers. The phrase "it's a no brainer" really fits here. If 6k breaks the deal than you should be looking at a different segment all together or the used market.
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      10-24-2019, 08:07 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
My DD is a Lexus IS. Aside from the very underpowered engine it's a reasonably fun little sport sedan. Looks nice, luxurious enough, and I never have to take it to the dealer for anything besides routine maintenance.
My previous car was a 2014 IS350 F-sport and before that a 2011 Lexus IS-F. My IS350 had the optional Variable Gear Ratio Steering (VGRS). I will be the first to admit the Lexus has better steering precision and feedback than the BMW, but it is hardly a difference worth influencing the buying decision. I love the steering response in the M340i.

And after having the M340i for three months now, I can say that this car handles about on par with the IS-F and better than the IS350 and accelerates faster than the IS-F. It's significantly better than the IS350 in almost every conceivable way.

Regarding reliability, my IS-F was bullet-proof from head to toe, but the IS350 was not so great. It's possible I had first model year bad luck because I had a whole laundry list of problems. The dealership experience was always phenominal, so I didn't complain too much about the problems... but I did have problems.

1. factory camber in the front caused premature tire wear... had to replace tires every 10-15K miles. This is a well document problem. I place this under "mechanical design flaw" which gets extra demerit points.
2. rear shocks started to leak prematurely, needed to be replaced under warranty. also a well documented problem. another mechanical reliability problem.
3. navigation screen had dysfunctional anti-reflective coating that wore off, leaving permanent and illegible screen in direct sunlight (was replaced under a TSB). again, this is a well documented problem.
4. power steering started squeaking like a bird when you turned the wheel (had it replaced under warranty). not a common problem from what I could tell, but another mechanical problem.
5. knocking/thuds coming from the moonroof... tried to get it fixed about 6 times but dealership could never fix it and was the main reason I got rid of it! i found other owners with this problem on forums but nobody had a clear diagnosis and solution.
6. rattling in the door switches from the stereo bass (dealer tried but never effectively fixed it).
7. navigation system completely died around 40K miles... had it replaced under warranty.
8. Before it died at 40K miles, the navigation system would occasionally freeze, had to pull over to the side of the road and power the car off and on to reset it.

There were other miscellaneous problems with the car, but those are the ones that stand out in my memory. Another thing I didn't like was the garbage paint. The clear coat was very soft and you could essentially create swirls and scratches even with a gentle hand wash using the proper two bucket technique. Lexus is on a lot of people's "DON'T BUY" list if you are an automotive detailing geek who loves to keep your paint looking perfect.

All in all, a pretty mediocre experience owning the IS350... but I still got a pretty good trade-in offer for it from the BMW dealership. The only thing I'll miss is the residual value.

Last edited by Giggler; 10-24-2019 at 08:42 PM..
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      10-24-2019, 09:06 PM   #115
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I agree....and don't forget, the f80 has more rubber in the back and, a faster shifting tranny (dual clutch). Something seems off. Maybe this was indeed an AWD?? And holy cow, if this is really the RWD (which I have doubts), how much is the xDrive going to weigh....4000+ lbs???
To quote road and track: "The 8HP automatic transmission has received updated gearing with shorter first and second gears, helping the 3-series be quicker off the line. Unfortunately, third gear hasnít changed, and the resulting spread looks like itíll cause a big drop in revs between second and third gears."

So BMW aggressively geared it for that fast 0-60... and I think there could be some sort of adaptive ECU algorithm at play that give it more horsepower than advertised during initial acceleration. My guess is they were aiming to match the Tesla dual motor by any means possible. Have you driven the M340i? If you have, you'll notice it has an acceleration flat spot going from gear three to four during rolling acceleration but not so noticeable flat spot if you hit third gear from second gear at WOT during initial acceleration. It's my one knock on the car... inconsistent rolling vs launching acceleration performance.
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      10-24-2019, 09:16 PM   #116
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Maybe there is a turbo boost function. Also there was a firmware update that restricted power to meet emissions. The earlier cars had closer to 400 whp.
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      10-24-2019, 10:44 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
You have to check out the car and driver article to know why people are reacting this way. They did a side by side instrumented test, in which the g20 m340i performed significantly better in nearly every metric. The author then goes on to say that the m340i handled better, has engineering on a whole other level, and is an athletic feeling car to drive. Then at the end they recommend the g70 because it's "cheaper" and probably good enough for the average slob who doesn't know good engineering from his a$& anyway - or something to that effect. It's nonsense, and frankly, suggests that c&d has been receiving envelopes from kia.
You guys are having trouble understanding the point of the article. 80% is gushing about how good the BMW is and 20% is about how "almost as good" the G70 is. As for the conclusion, they never said they recommend the G70. This is the "bottom line"

Quote:
All things being equal, you have to pick the BMW M340i here. Itís significantly quicker, its powertrain is more refined, and it has the richer interior, larger back seat, and bigger trunk. But all things arenít equal. Our BMW test car cost the price of a new Nissan Versa more than the Genesis, and itís the G70 that rides better and has more than enough performance and handling for 90 percent of drivers 95 percent of the time.
They never recommend the G70. They give the reader two options: the best car, or the best value. That's it.
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      10-25-2019, 12:58 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
Maybe there is a turbo boost function. Also there was a firmware update that restricted power to meet emissions. The earlier cars had closer to 400 whp.
Still dont believe it
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      10-25-2019, 01:18 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristau View Post
Still dont believe it
This is becoming legendary level fake news now that it is seeping into multiple threads without a shred of evidence.
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      10-25-2019, 01:27 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
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Originally Posted by Ristau View Post
Still dont believe it
This is becoming legendary level fake news now that it is seeping into multiple threads without a shred of evidence.
It is in the B58 mod tread for G20 there was a recall as the cars were not emissions legal because they forgot to flash the firmware.


Mission Performance Presents World's First Tuning Solution For G20 M340i. https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1638864
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      10-25-2019, 03:25 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Exactly, the bmw is the better car, so it costs more. Higher quality and performance commands a higher price. It's ridiculous then that car and driver concludes by choosing the g70 as the winner because it's cheaper and "good enough for the commute". Is that how they judge a luxury sports sedan now? If so they lose all credibility in reviewing cars in that segment.
Yeah i feel you. But C&D isnít usually a fan of BMW so that might be why.
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      10-25-2019, 06:11 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
You have to check out the car and driver article to know why people are reacting this way. They did a side by side instrumented test, in which the g20 m340i performed significantly better in nearly every metric. The author then goes on to say that the m340i handled better, has engineering on a whole other level, and is an athletic feeling car to drive. Then at the end they recommend the g70 because it's "cheaper" and probably good enough for the average slob who doesn't know good engineering from his a$& anyway - or something to that effect. It's nonsense, and frankly, suggests that c&d has been receiving envelopes from kia.
You guys are having trouble understanding the point of the article. 80% is gushing about how good the BMW is and 20% is about how "almost as good" the G70 is. As for the conclusion, they never said they recommend the G70. This is the "bottom line"

Quote:
All things being equal, you have to pick the BMW M340i here. It’s significantly quicker, its powertrain is more refined, and it has the richer interior, larger back seat, and bigger trunk. But all things aren’t equal. Our BMW test car cost the price of a new Nissan Versa more than the Genesis, and it’s the G70 that rides better and has more than enough performance and handling for 90 percent of drivers 95 percent of the time.
They never recommend the G70. They give the reader two options: the best car, or the best value. That's it.
I think we understand the article fine, and it is not as black and white as you say. Their statements in "The Bottom Line" that say "but all things are not equal" and "a price difference the BMW struggles to overcome" make it pretty clear that they think the G70 is the better buy once price is taken into account.

I think a lot of us disagree with that. We believe the M340 easily justifies the price difference because it is a much better car (C&D admit that), and also because their price difference is not telling the whole story once you take into account the deals you can get and that most people lease. For me, even putting deals and leasing aside, the M340 easily justifies the initial $12k MSRP difference, because it is that much better!
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      10-25-2019, 07:11 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
You have to check out the car and driver article to know why people are reacting this way. They did a side by side instrumented test, in which the g20 m340i performed significantly better in nearly every metric. The author then goes on to say that the m340i handled better, has engineering on a whole other level, and is an athletic feeling car to drive. Then at the end they recommend the g70 because it's "cheaper" and probably good enough for the average slob who doesn't know good engineering from his a$& anyway - or something to that effect. It's nonsense, and frankly, suggests that c&d has been receiving envelopes from kia.
You guys are having trouble understanding the point of the article. 80% is gushing about how good the BMW is and 20% is about how "almost as good" the G70 is. As for the conclusion, they never said they recommend the G70. This is the "bottom line"

Quote:
All things being equal, you have to pick the BMW M340i here. It’s significantly quicker, its powertrain is more refined, and it has the richer interior, larger back seat, and bigger trunk. But all things aren’t equal. Our BMW test car cost the price of a new Nissan Versa more than the Genesis, and it’s the G70 that rides better and has more than enough performance and handling for 90 percent of drivers 95 percent of the time.
They never recommend the G70. They give the reader two options: the best car, or the best value. That's it.
The use the phrase, "which is the better sports sedan" in the title. Then under the section "The Bottom Line" they close by stating that the g70 is adequate for 90% of drivers 95% of the time, and is far cheaper (they claim by the price of a Versa). It seems to me that they are recommending the g70 for most readers.
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      10-25-2019, 08:06 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristau View Post
Still dont believe it
This is becoming legendary level fake news now that it is seeping into multiple threads without a shred of evidence.
It is in the B58 mod tread for G20 there was a recall as the cars were not emissions legal because they forgot to flash the firmware.


Mission Performance Presents World's First Tuning Solution For G20 M340i. https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1638864
No proof whatsoever in that thread. They just say it's so. Fake news.
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      10-25-2019, 11:49 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
No proof whatsoever in that thread. They just say it's so. Fake news.
They did show a dyno chart, and did say it was because of some missed calibration basically, but, conveniently, it was very few models that would have been impacted by it, like most likely less than 500.

I could see this being true to a degree, but you know, waaaaaay overblown.
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      10-25-2019, 12:14 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehvantes View Post
They did show a dyno chart, and did say it was because of some missed calibration basically, but, conveniently, it was very few models that would have been impacted by it, like most likely less than 500.

I could see this being true to a degree, but you know, waaaaaay overblown.
We never saw a dyno without a tune putting down 400whp. It would have certainly been helpful if they had shown that one.

They showed a dyno making 346whp and one making 338whp with an explanation that an update reduced it from 346whp to 338whp. Thats a difference of just 8 hp. They claim the car made 400whp originally but don't have a dyno of it ( https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1638852 ).

They showed a datalog that translates to what they say is 395whp - but I'm not really sure how to read it myself.

Why not a dyno?

But, I don't know what the reason they have for making this up is. Their tune is impressive with or without the claim that it had 395whp originally and now it only has 338whp.
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      10-25-2019, 12:22 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
No proof whatsoever in that thread. They just say it's so. Fake news.
I said it in that thread, but I think it's pretty suspect that a tuning company trying to sell their tunes is making that claim.
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      10-25-2019, 01:14 PM   #128
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some of you guys are really getting up in arms about this comparison
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      10-25-2019, 01:31 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katar View Post
some of you guys are really getting up in arms about this comparison
We have to have something to talk about!
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      10-25-2019, 01:40 PM   #130
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90% of the drivers won't be able to tell the difference between the two cars besides visuals. The article is written by C&D for all drivers out there.
For the 10% or less of BMW drivers that are active on the forum (most likely a lot less) 340i is the better car. For the remainder it will come done to the price point vs. brand appeal. To me that's the real conclusion of the article. If you are enthusiast you won't mind spending the extra cash to get the bimmer. If not, you will be very happy with G70 and 12 grand in your pocket.

P.S. I have driven both cars. Have to say that genesis was really impressive for the price. And the price gap in Canada between the two is even bigger.
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      10-25-2019, 01:59 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_bm View Post
90% of the drivers won't be able to tell the difference between the two cars besides visuals. The article is written by C&D for all drivers out there.
For the 10% or less of BMW drivers that are active on the forum (most likely a lot less) 340i is the better car. For the remainder it will come done to the price point vs. brand appeal. To me that's the real conclusion of the article. If you are enthusiast you won't mind spending the extra cash to get the bimmer. If not, you will be very happy with G70 and 12 grand in your pocket.

P.S. I have driven both cars. Have to say that genesis was really impressive for the price. And the price gap in Canada between the two is even bigger.
I could also argue that most non-enthusiasts don't even read C&D, so they'll never know this review exists. People don't read magazines on topics they aren't interested in.
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      10-25-2019, 02:35 PM   #132
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Evolution racewerks posted early build M340 dyno numbers of 391whp/420 lb ft in this thread:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1655627
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