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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions M340i vs G70 3.3T Sport Comparo. Hits 3.8s 0-60 in Instrumented Test

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      11-08-2019, 08:19 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Rotary engines typically burn massive volumes of oil, so I'd say they slot between I4 and 3 cylinders. The 16 cylinder engines can all be ranked similarly since I don't know which configuration works best. I listed W16 since it would seem to be, essentially, two V8s.
I owned three rotary engines many, many years ago. I even put an aftermarket turbo on one of them. The truth is that they cured its problems (none of which I had) a long time ago, but by then itís reputation was ruined. And they actually burned some oil on purpose. They had to inject a small amount of oil into the combustion chamber to lubricate the seals.

But mine really did not burn much. In fact, there are MANY reports of BMWs, especially the V8s burning oil. A friend of mine just sold his X5 50 after his dealer told him that a quart every 800 miles was within BMWs ďnormalĒ range.
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      11-08-2019, 08:39 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Wrong! There's the m340i now.
There's no Right! or Wrong! opinion on this matter, don't be childish.

340i automatic with a letter M added by Marketing dept. in front of the numerals is not an "enthusiast" car in my book. It's a marketing move to compete with a faux AMG C43, etc.

My wife drives automatic 440i, she's not an enthusiast, she just picked it because it sounded better than 430 engine and is effortlessly faster from light to light in traffic and merging into a highway.
She still doesn't know what those flappies do behind the steering wheel, I tried to explain and she was yawning before I even got to Sport Sport+
This is the majority for whom BMW builds their 3/4 series. Don't kid yourself, Kia had more enthusiasts in mind when they made 6MT available for G70 than BMW.
Again, BMW makes only 3 cars that geared towards enthusiasts - m2 m3 m4
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      11-08-2019, 08:58 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by frenzel View Post
In Australia at least thereís no f-ing way Iím cross shopping $120 bimmer with a Hyundai. Youíre not even in the same literal suburb when walking the dealerships, itís a completely different market.

Next theyíll steal Ferrari engineers and thereíll be comparison reviews there too.

Call me a brand snob, but it works for the people buying second hand too....
Boom
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      11-08-2019, 09:55 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Rotary engines typically burn massive volumes of oil, so I'd say they slot between I4 and 3 cylinders. The 16 cylinder engines can all be ranked similarly since I don't know which configuration works best. I listed W16 since it would seem to be, essentially, two V8s.
I owned three rotary engines many, many years ago. I even put an aftermarket turbo on one of them. The truth is that they cured its problems (none of which I had) a long time ago, but by then it’s reputation was ruined. And they actually burned some oil on purpose. They had to inject a small amount of oil into the combustion chamber to lubricate the seals.

But mine really did not burn much. In fact, there are MANY reports of BMWs, especially the V8s burning oil. A friend of mine just sold his X5 50 after his dealer told him that a quart every 800 miles was within BMWs “normal” range.
Yeah, BMW inline 6's are usually more durable/reliable in the ling run. Despite all the changes made to the N63 V8 over the years, they still seem too problematic to own long-term.
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      11-08-2019, 11:02 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post
I understand both of your points, but let me elaborate. I donít understand why anyone would buy anything less than the six cylinder for the same reason as yours. Iíve had plenty of four cyclinder BMW loaners and was always aware that they did not excuse a premium feel.

Why spend extra money on a BMW over something like a well equipped Accord or some such car, but then go cheap on the engine. And itís not about performance. Itís about the silky smoothest and effortless performance and it still gets great gas mileage.

Totally agree with you, I could never see myself forking over the cash for a BMW only to go for a base 4 cylinder motor. But that's because we place value on getting a 6 cylinder over a 4 cylinder, regardless of if it's due to performance or smoothness.

Majority of consumers don't put enough value on getting the 6 cylinder over the 4 cylinder to justify the extra cost, and that's evident in sales figures.

In fact if you look at the trend of these luxury brands offering new ever-cheaper entry level cars (i.e. Audi A3, Mercedes CLA/A class etc) which are coming in even below the previous entry level offerings, is because they've identified that there's a significant market of consumers who place value simply on the fact that they're able to drive a luxury brand, and couldn't care less about smoothness/performance/actual luxury. You can't really say those ultra-entry level cars are all about luxury/performance.
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      11-08-2019, 11:57 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Totally agree with you, I could never see myself forking over the cash for a BMW only to go for a base 4 cylinder motor. But that's because we place value on getting a 6 cylinder over a 4 cylinder, regardless of if it's due to performance or smoothness.

Majority of consumers don't put enough value on getting the 6 cylinder over the 4 cylinder to justify the extra cost, and that's evident in sales figures.

In fact if you look at the trend of these luxury brands offering new ever-cheaper entry level cars (i.e. Audi A3, Mercedes CLA/A class etc) which are coming in even below the previous entry level offerings, is because they've identified that there's a significant market of consumers who place value simply on the fact that they're able to drive a luxury brand, and couldn't care less about smoothness/performance/actual luxury. You can't really say those ultra-entry level cars are all about luxury/performance.
completely agree. when I see a3 I scratch my head, why?

clearly someone just walked in the dealership and asked what their cheapest car was
No? you don't make golf carts? shoot, ok, I'll lease A3 I guess for $259.99 with 7000 miles allowed per year of rental.
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      11-08-2019, 12:16 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
completely agree. when I see a3 I scratch my head, why?

clearly someone just walked in the dealership and asked what their cheapest car was
No? you don't make golf carts? shoot, ok, I'll lease A3 I guess for $259.99 with 7000 miles allowed per year of rental.
Yup... as long as the badge has 4 rings on it or the 3 point star or the flag of Bavaria... that's all that matters.
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      11-08-2019, 01:17 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
completely agree. when I see a3 I scratch my head, why?

clearly someone just walked in the dealership and asked what their cheapest car was
No? you don't make golf carts? shoot, ok, I'll lease A3 I guess for $259.99 with 7000 miles allowed per year of rental.
Yup... as long as the badge has 4 rings on it or the 3 point star or the flag of Bavaria... that's all that matters.
And that is why we have the 2-Series Gran Coupe, the econobox of Bravaria
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      11-08-2019, 02:55 PM   #207
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A little late to the thread- don't want to further ruffle any feathers but...finally got a chance to drive the G70 3.3T and I was impressed.

Currently own a G20 330i and while I think the G20 is an *overall* better all around sports sedan - can't deny the fact that the G70 has a bit better steering. God damn, feels like a go cart around town. Perfect ratio with a 2.2 turns lock to lock and nice weight and more linear than the G20. Not much feedback from the electric steering so that's a draw.

G20 excels in every other area. All things being equal I'd take the G20. If I was getting a much better lease deal on the G70 I'd happily take it over the G20.
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      11-08-2019, 05:58 PM   #208
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M340i vs G70 3.3T Sport Comparo. Hits 3.8s 0-60 in Instrumented Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post
I understand both of your points, but let me elaborate. I don't understand why anyone would buy anything less than the six cylinder for the same reason as yours. I've had plenty of four cyclinder BMW loaners and was always aware that they did not excuse a premium feel.

Why spend extra money on a BMW over something like a well equipped Accord or some such car, but then go cheap on the engine. And it's not about performance. It's about the silky smoothest and effortless performance and it still gets great gas mileage.

Totally agree with you, I could never see myself forking over the cash for a BMW only to go for a base 4 cylinder motor. But that's because we place value on getting a 6 cylinder over a 4 cylinder, regardless of if it's due to performance or smoothness.

Majority of consumers don't put enough value on getting the 6 cylinder over the 4 cylinder to justify the extra cost, and that's evident in sales figures.

In fact if you look at the trend of these luxury brands offering new ever-cheaper entry level cars (i.e. Audi A3, Mercedes CLA/A class etc) which are coming in even below the previous entry level offerings, is because they've identified that there's a significant market of consumers who place value simply on the fact that they're able to drive a luxury brand, and couldn't care less about smoothness/performance/actual luxury. You can't really say those ultra-entry level cars are all about luxury/performance.
What if it's fully equipped but just on 4 cylinder instead of 6 cylinder (pretty typical for a lot overseas market), unless you're driving hard (which is not the point of a being driven on a full loaded 730 LWB), not sure if engine choice matter as much as what you loaded up internally...
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      11-08-2019, 07:10 PM   #209
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Quote:
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What if it's fully equipped but just on 4 cylinder instead of 6 cylinder (pretty typical for a lot overseas market), unless you're driving hard (which is not the point of a being driven on a full loaded 730 LWB), not sure if engine choice matter as much as what you loaded up internally...
It depends what your priorities are. I don't have statistics to back this up, but just simply looking at inventory would give a good indication of the types of cars dealers stock to forecast the wants of consumers, and lightly optioned cars typically seem to have larger numbers of inventory than fully equipped ones.

In regards to overseas markets, from my understanding, quite a few of them have restrictions on engine size (I can speak for Asian markets specifically), and importing cars with larger motors incurs a hefty fee. So turbo 4's rule in those markets.
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      11-09-2019, 09:16 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Wrong! There's the m340i now.
There's no Right! or Wrong! opinion on this matter, don't be childish.

340i automatic with a letter M added by Marketing dept. in front of the numerals is not an "enthusiast" car in my book. It's a marketing move to compete with a faux AMG C43, etc.

My wife drives automatic 440i, she's not an enthusiast, she just picked it because it sounded better than 430 engine and is effortlessly faster from light to light in traffic and merging into a highway.
She still doesn't know what those flappies do behind the steering wheel, I tried to explain and she was yawning before I even got to Sport Sport+
This is the majority for whom BMW builds their 3/4 series. Don't kid yourself, Kia had more enthusiasts in mind when they made 6MT available for G70 than BMW.
Again, BMW makes only 3 cars that geared towards enthusiasts - m2 m3 m4
I was just giving you a hard time. I do find it a bit humorous, though, that you started your post stating that there is no right or wrong opinion on the matter, but then wrote a few paragraphs explaining why I'm wrong.
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      11-09-2019, 10:15 AM   #211
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You guys. Average Joe/Jane does not buy a car based on engine. That is the LAST thing they care about. Especially when 4turbos are as good as they are now. All they know about their engine is that they have to put gas in it and that isn't free which annoys them.
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      11-09-2019, 10:34 AM   #212
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Iím on my 3rd BMW and have never had one without a 6 cylinder engine. Even the 330e or 530e with their 4 cylinder turbo engines donít appeal at all. My neighbour had a 740e and it just seemed wrong that a car like that had a 4 cylinder engine instead of a straight 6, a V8 or even a V12. I guess he felt the same as he swapped it out for a Tesla after about 8 months.

Iím going to wait until BMW flesh out their all electric range before taking the plunge on an electric car, canít see me going for a hybrid.
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      11-09-2019, 10:47 AM   #213
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The one thing I'll never understand is why people choose 4 cylinder motors for the 5 Series. That's just ludicrous.
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      11-09-2019, 01:35 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Wrong! There's the m340i now.
There's no Right! or Wrong! opinion on this matter, don't be childish.

340i automatic with a letter M added by Marketing dept. in front of the numerals is not an "enthusiast" car in my book. It's a marketing move to compete with a faux AMG C43, etc.

My wife drives automatic 440i, she's not an enthusiast, she just picked it because it sounded better than 430 engine and is effortlessly faster from light to light in traffic and merging into a highway.
She still doesn't know what those flappies do behind the steering wheel, I tried to explain and she was yawning before I even got to Sport Sport+
This is the majority for whom BMW builds their 3/4 series. Don't kid yourself, Kia had more enthusiasts in mind when they made 6MT available for G70 than BMW.
Again, BMW makes only 3 cars that geared towards enthusiasts - m2 m3 m4
I think you got purist and enthusiast mixed up.
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      11-09-2019, 03:04 PM   #215
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Cars.com did a long but very good review on G70 vs G20. Interesting that the direct comparison was based on price and therefore the G70 3.3 vs G20 330i. They do though include the G70 2.0T and M340i in the discussion with some instrumented data too that basically matches the C&D testing but with xDrive. In the end they declare 330i to edge out G70 3.3 and call the low end G70 basically terrible and the M340i a triumph although very expensive.

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      11-09-2019, 03:23 PM   #216
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Cars.com did a long but very good review on G70 vs G20. Interesting that the direct comparison was based on price and therefore the G70 3.3 vs G20 330i. They do though include the G70 2.0T and M340i in the discussion with some instrumented data too that basically matches the C&D testing but with xDrive. In the end they declare 330i to edge out G70 3.3 and call the low end G70 basically terrible and the M340i a triumph although very expensive.

And another publication getting 3.8 sec 0-60. Very impressive!
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      11-09-2019, 03:57 PM   #217
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Nice to see a review that gives a thorough and honest perspective instead of pure G70 hype .
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      11-10-2019, 11:57 AM   #218
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Thanks for posting it Germanauto, but I'm not going to read that MT drivel. At least c&d and R&T tries to be entertaining.
But they've all said the same stuff about the G20...
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      11-10-2019, 02:43 PM   #219
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I think its funny that every publication basically says the BMW is better but that it is more expensive.

Sure MSRP to MSRP it is more expensive - but hopefully nobody pays MSRP. I realize its probably hard for magazines to figure out the "street price" of a car especially since there isn't always a "norm" on pricing - but for anyone reading these articles they need to do a little research.

The M340i can easily be had for 10% off MSRP, some people have even gotten more - and BMW has been offering additional incentives on top of that for leases. When you consider that the residual is almost 10% higher, your monthly payment is about the same between a $50K G70 and a $60K M340i.

Time will tell how depreciation treats these cars for people buying - but if the BMW actually depreciates less you might be better off buying the M340i too since it will be worth more when you sell it. Hard to tell on this though and BMWs usually depreciate a lot over time - but I don't think Genesis depreciation would be like a Lexus!

But you're better off leasing the M340i over the G70 from a money perspective.
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      11-10-2019, 03:21 PM   #220
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Gotta remember, you can probably swing a good deal on the G70 (just look at the prices on Stingers), so the gap in pricing could still be there, even after M340 incentives/deals.
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