[Chuckyarla]

I was driving along today in hybrid mode. I had driven about 6 km and the engine hadn’t kicked in at all as I had being going easy. I found myself stuck behind a slow moving Golf. So I stuck the foot down and left it way behind. As I accelerated at about 110 km/ph the engine kicked in. Surely it can’t be good for a cold engine to start off at high revs? In a normal petrol or diesel car the engine only ever starts at idle speed and gets a chance to warm up (unless you’re in the habit of shooting out of your driveway at high speed).

[SteveinArizona]

I have always wondered the same thing BUT I also assume that BMW has figured that out. I drive mostly on pure electric for local driving and auto when I can exercise the car and I figure that the ICE is only being used at most 50% of the time, probably less.

[Mazman]

There was a guy tailgating me, I was tired and let him get to me. So I stomped on it and the ICE turned on full throttle and it was two degrees Celsius outside. I still have regrets because that cannot be good for the engine....

[HighlandPete]

I've posted before in other topics on this issue. Goes against all my engineering training, experience with engines and attention to applying 'mechanical sympathy'.

It is one thing that puts me off having a PHEV. Even running the ICE for just a couple of miles from cold doesn't sit well.

[Slideit]

I was pondering the same issue today. I started thinking if BMW (or other PHEV makers) have an official view on this? Nothing in the manual? (I don't have my 330e yet).

[tn1krr]

The manual actually says "in order to save fuel do not warm up the engine standing still, start driving immediately in moderate speeds". I'm also pretty sure there are bunch of protections in the ICE engine for this; the engine propably has way lower rev limiter when cold (my 10 year old E90 M3 had this, need to check this out next time I drive with ICE on), maybe mixture adjustsments, gentler throttle response for cold engine etc. Long life oil seems to be kind that does not much warm up etc. The B48 engine also does not take full load when engaged during an electric drive, there is electric engine working at full power at the same time.

I really would not sweat this too much; the basic engine construction has been around for 5 years and is known to be quite robust. The electric mode saves pretty huge amount of ICE cold starts (I propably have 90% less cold starts per same miles than I did with my M3) and real ICE miles between oil changes tend to be less than odometer miles so there is quite a bright side to the hybrid drive too.

[IvoY]

I am planning to get 330e too, and this is my biggest concern.
Sure there will be a lot of situations driving in pure electric and suddenly need full power, so cold engine at 100% load is for sure very bad, if BMW has not figured something out.

[Chuckyarla]

Originally Posted by IvoY

I am planning to get 330e too, and this is my biggest concern.
Sure there will be a lot of situations driving in pure electric and suddenly need full power, so cold engine at 100% load is for sure very bad, if BMW has not figured something out.

That's what I thought.

[Quervo]

Originally Posted by Chuckyarla

That's what I thought.

This topic reminds me of the "bore glazing" topics of years ago when we worried that a slow commute at low revs would glaze the cylinder bores of engines.
With a hybrid we get the best of all options, no stop/start engine wear or ticking along in a daily commute.
Up side is when the ICE kicks in the car is rolling and engine load should be lowish as less inertia to overcome.

If you floor the throttle from cold start, any " undue wear" would be far lower than the hundreds of starts from cold that a normal ICE gets every year.
That's why I'm on second hybrid, as it just makes sense to me.

[sohu]

Do you know if BMW still recommends an engine break in period? If so, then how the PHEV internal combustion engines are broken in when you are doing a mix of pure electric and hybrid modes OR you just drive on sport/manual mode and let the engine run most of the times during the break in period?

[MarkoSK]

Originally Posted by sohu

Do you know if BMW still recommends an engine break in period? If so, then how the PHEV internal combustion engines are broken in when you are doing a mix of pure electric and hybrid modes OR you just drive on sport/manual mode and let the engine run most of the times during the break in period?

According to the 330e manual (section "running in"), it is recommended to stay below 4500 rpm and 160 km/h for the first 2000 km.

It is not stated whether it is 2000 km in hybrid mode or pure "ICE" mode. If you want to be on the safe side, the ICE engine is always turned on in Sport mode - with that you can achieve 2000 km for the ICE engine alone.

PS: I run in pure electric mode in the city and switch to the ICE engine via Sport mode when driving long distance. Currently I have 1500 km ICE-only and 2000 km in pure electric (so 3500 km total).

[sohu]

Originally Posted by MarkoSK

According to the 330e manual (section "running in"), it is recommended to stay below 4500 rpm and 160 km/h for the first 2000 km.

It is not stated whether it is 2000 km in hybrid mode or pure "ICE" mode. If you want to be on the safe side, the ICE engine is always turned on in Sport mode - with that you can achieve 2000 km for the ICE engine alone.

PS: I run in pure electric mode in the city and switch to the ICE engine via Sport mode when driving long distance. Currently I have 1500 km ICE-only and 2000 km in pure electric (so 3500 km total).

Thanks for the info, I am expecting my G21 in a couple of weeks, will keep this in mind.

The dealer told me the car has an auxiliary heater and you can preheat the car remotely. I know from my previous (ICE) car, the auxiliary heater (Webasto) would heat up the cabin + engine. Does the 330E system also heats up the ICE?

[MarkoSK]

Originally Posted by sohu

Thanks for the info, I am expecting my G21 in a couple of weeks, will keep this in mind.

The dealer told me the car has an auxiliary heater and you can preheat the car remotely. I know from my previous (ICE) car, the auxiliary heater (Webasto) would heat up the cabin + engine. Does the 330E system also heats up the ICE?

I think it only heats up the cabin - I've used it more than once and the ICE engine was cold, if I remember correctly.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want the ICE engine to heat up because I drive electic-only most of the trips.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by MarkoSK

I think it only heats up the cabin - I've used it more than once and the ICE engine was cold, if I remember correctly.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want the ICE engine to heat up because I drive electic-only most of the trips.

cabin only. It runs off the hybrid battery, it doesn't start the car so it can't heat up the ICE.

[g21xtro]

You should all take into consideration that according to the BMW B48 Engine Reference manual, this has been at least "carefully" looked into by BMW...

From my POV 200.000 km warranty is a thing that gives the owners the required peace of mind.

Surely you should not use the car at redline right after you started it. But from my experience after just 3-4 min of regular driving, the engine is at operating temperature and even after running a period on electric only, the ICE temperature remains high.

Here are some insights from the manual..

Cold-start phase
In the cold-start phase, the coolant circulates exclusively via a bypass in the coolant pump. The rotary valve in the heat management module closes the coolant lines so that the excess pressure that builds up opens the pressure relief valve in the coolant pump (opening pressure 2.2 bar) and the coolant is recirculated in the coolant pump.
Because the coolant circuits through the exhaust turbocharger and the ventilation line of the cylinder head cannot be closed, a low volumetric flow is returned to the coolant pump here.

Warm-up phase
In the warm-up phase, the heat management module additionally opens the connection to the heating in addition to opening the bypass line. The coolant flows through the cylinder head, the exhaust turbocharger and the engine oil/coolant heat exchanger. The electrical Split Cooling Valve is closed; no coolant flow through the engine block (Split Cooling).

[Biglewey]

Interesting thread and things I have thought about.

As an engineer with some mechanical sympathy going to high revs form cold seems not good - I would never do it deliberately but warm the engine up first before any spirited driving. I notice that the engine (oil temp) warms up very quickly compared to other cars I have had.

On the running in. I'm still in process of doing that but have been running with the gearbox in sport mode so the engine is running so I can be sure when the 1200 miles is up the engine has been run in. As much as anything when I first had the car for 2-3 weeks of short journeys I never used any fuel...

Modern manufacturing techniques and oil formulation mean the the engine is well protected I think. And I don't know but just a though how much wear would you have on a hybrid car ICE with say XXXX miles on the clock with only occasional running and mostly on long runs vs a normal car where the engine has done all the work with cold starts every day, short runs and lots of stop/starts??? Swings and roundabouts?

[sohu]

Originally Posted by Biglewey

Modern manufacturing techniques and oil formulation mean the the engine is well protected I think. And I don't know but just a though how much wear would you have on a hybrid car ICE with say XXXX miles on the clock with only occasional running and mostly on long runs vs a normal car where the engine has done all the work with cold starts every day, short runs and lots of stop/starts??? Swings and roundabouts?

Good point, city driving specially during winters with lots of start/stop can take a toll on the engine, which can be avoided in the PHEVs. Although with all the innovative technologies in the modern engines, they might be less susceptible to wear and tear.

I think during the break in period, it makes sense to use the pure electric mode for (short) city driving and sport mode with only ICE running on the longer routes. Just have to keep track of the mileage when only ICE is running.

[ADIUK]

To find total of miles on ICE and Electric.

Go to Journey Data and you will find "Ex works": the values since leaving the factory are displayed.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by Biglewey

Interesting thread and things I have thought about.

As an engineer with some mechanical sympathy going to high revs form cold seems not good - I would never do it deliberately but warm the engine up first before any spirited driving. I notice that the engine (oil temp) warms up very quickly compared to other cars I have had.

On the running in. I'm still in process of doing that but have been running with the gearbox in sport mode so the engine is running so I can be sure when the 1200 miles is up the engine has been run in. As much as anything when I first had the car for 2-3 weeks of short journeys I never used any fuel...

Modern manufacturing techniques and oil formulation mean the the engine is well protected I think. And I don't know but just a though how much wear would you have on a hybrid car ICE with say XXXX miles on the clock with only occasional running and mostly on long runs vs a normal car where the engine has done all the work with cold starts every day, short runs and lots of stop/starts??? Swings and roundabouts?

I'd guess that not having to do all the cold starts in an normal non hybrid car would be far worse than a few cold starts on a hybrid / plug in. A lot of people seem to think given the electric motor allows much less stress on the ICE motor for starts from 0 etc that it would have much less wear on it, than had the car been only running on gas. Priuses are very reliable....though toyotas are in general

[sohu]

Originally Posted by ADIUK

To find total of miles on ICE and Electric.

Go to Journey Data and you will find "Ex works": the values since leaving the factory are displayed.

Thanks! This is useful

[G20 PHEV]

Considering the near water-equivalent viscosity of the engine oil and pumps which pressurize the hydro-static bearings............I'm not worrying about it.

Besides, the very similar, auto stop-start is pretty common these days.

[ovesund]

Originally Posted by ADIUK

To find total of miles on ICE and Electric.

Go to Journey Data and you will find "Ex works": the values since leaving the factory are displayed.

Hmm, checked in my car and the electric distance is way off.
The total distance is correct but the distance driven on electric seems to have been reset when I got the 11/2019 SW update installed.
It lists something like 5000km electric while in reality it should be way past 10k, probably closer to 13k.