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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) DCT or Traditional AT?

View Poll Results: DCT or traditional AT?
I prefer a DCT. 166 61.03%
I prefer a traditional AT. 21 7.72%
Either is fine with me. 31 11.40%
I don't care. No manual, no purchase. 54 19.85%
Voters: 272. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-30-2019, 02:37 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
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Originally Posted by pbar View Post
There have *always* been many of those customers. They used to be the people who bought a 335i saying "it's just as good as an M3" and if they couldn't tell the difference then that was just fine ... now they buy an M340i, M350i whatever.

The M cars were supposed to have rough edges ("mummy, my DCT is not smooth enough!") and compromised comfort in exchange for superior handling and performance that enthusiasts appreciated. They cost more because the potential market was smaller.

If BMW isn't going to do that any more, then they should be honest about it and, cancel the M3 and tell everybody that the mass market "M350ixs+" is the car they should want.

That's the logical conclusion of the "forum enthusiasts are only a tiny part of the market" argument (that inevitably follows every post like this).

Personally, I'm shopping for extended warranties right now, hoping that something better will eventually appear.
While I agree with how the ZF changes the character of the car vs. the DCT I disagree with that it becomes just a faster MXX(X)i car. My experience is that the true M cars are built to a very different standard in terms of endurance, cooling, strength, quality and they are tuned much more meticulously in chassis/suspension/steering.
It's a similar difference between buying an M performance car and a true M as it is between buying an Audi and a Porsche. The price difference between a real M and a non does not nearly reflect the superior products the M cars are vs. MXXXi cars.

And at the current size and practicality of the M3 I believe there is a sizable market who want all of that with a smoother gearbox. If you look at the lineup of M these days it's not a lineup of track cars with compromised comfort, it's a high end sub brand of BMW building better cars with sporty ambitions. The smallest cars retain some of the original M car's track ambitions while the larger cars do not. The M3 is now having one foot on each side. An MT and a ZF make at least some sense.
Agreed!
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      11-30-2019, 03:49 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
While I agree with how the ZF changes the character of the car vs. the DCT I disagree with that it becomes just a faster MXX(X)i car. My experience is that the true M cars are built to a very different standard in terms of endurance, cooling, strength, quality and they are tuned much more meticulously in chassis/suspension/steering.
That leads to two questions:
1) Why exactly do these customers need the additional 'endurance, cooling, strength' etc? (I agree it's needed on the track - though I can still only manage about 20 minute sessions before the brakes start to cook!)
2) Why did I need to pay extra for "M Performance Suspension" on my M4?

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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
And at the current size and practicality of the M3 I believe there is a sizable market who want all of that with a smoother gearbox. If you look at the lineup of M these days it’s not a lineup of track cars with compromised comfort, it’s a high end sub brand of BMW building better cars with sporty ambitions. The smallest cars retain some of the original M car’s track ambitions while the larger cars do not. The M3 is now having one foot on each side. An MT and a ZF make at least some sense.
I actually agree with everything you said... right up until the last sentence.

Driving an M car in 'full auto' on the track is a frustrating and unrewarding exercise. Might as well buy a Tesla and put it in self-driving track mode with 'automatic drifting'.

As I understood it, 'M' is supposed to stand for Motorsport. Perhaps BMW need a new division for 'Overengineered Massive GT cars' (let's call it 'OMG')? ...but Mercedes already have that market covered.

As you say, the M2 is probably the best option for a driver's car right now, but that is starting to feel a little dated (especially the interior) and will also be EOP soon. So what's an M owner to do?

Last edited by pbar; 11-30-2019 at 04:23 PM..
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      11-30-2019, 05:07 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by pbar View Post
That leads to two questions:
1) Why exactly do these customers need the additional 'endurance, cooling, strength' etc? (I agree it's needed on the track - though I can still only manage about 20 minute sessions before the brakes start to cook!)
2) Why did I need to pay extra for "M Performance Suspension" on my M4?



I actually agree with everything you said... right up until the last sentence.

Driving an M car in 'full auto' on the track is a frustrating and unrewarding exercise. Might as well buy a Tesla and put it in self-driving track mode with 'automatic drifting'.

As I understood it, 'M' is supposed to stand for Motorsport. Perhaps BMW need a new division for 'Overengineered Massive GT cars' (let's call it 'OMG')? ...but Mercedes already have that market covered.

As you say, the M2 is probably the best option for a driver's car right now, but that is starting to feel a little dated (especially the interior) and will also be EOP soon. So what's an M owner to do?
With over a year until the G8X is available the new M2 shouldn’t be far behind and there seem to be a possibility it will inherit some of the 3.0 CSL heritage concept car’s look...

Or go MT for the G8X, highly recommended . That was what I meant by my original comment. If you want the better track driving experience do it full out. The AT is for the people not going to the track IMO or going there solely to go fast. Why do these people “need” the M cars higher end capabilities? They technically don’t in the same way most people buying a G wagon or 4Runner don’t need their strength and capability but having that extra buffer and quality feel is rewarding enough in itself. I love the feel of higher quality engineering in my M car and our Porsche everyday every drive on or off the track. The M performance cars look similar but feel totally different.

Last edited by solstice; 11-30-2019 at 05:19 PM..
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      11-30-2019, 05:39 PM   #202
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With over a year until the G8X is available the new M2 shouldn’t be far behind and there seem to be a possibility it will inherit some of the 3.0 CSL heritage concept car’s look...
We can but hope! I would buy that in a heartbeat. Saw an interesting post that claims the i4 is going to be equivalent of 550hp so maybe this is the new "M" car?

I have never kept a car longer than 3 years, but now it's really looking like I'm going to have to hold onto the current M4 until 2021! :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Or go MT for the G8X, highly recommended
I am considering it ... but after driving RHD manual cars for 25 years in the UK, I moved to the US and it just feels *wrong* trying to shift with my right hand (being left handed probably doesn't help). In the end, I'm not a luddite, and get just as much fun out of choosing my shift points on a DCT paddle-shift (with the benefit of two hands on the wheel). Driving a DCT well on track still requires you to be in the right gear for the right corner, and not to shift when the tires are under high load, etc. I don't expect to have that option with the ZF8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I love the feel of higher quality engineering in my M car and our Porsche everyday every drive on or off the track. The M performance cars look similar but feel totally different.
I also love the feel of a well-engineered car, and each time I test drive an M-perf variant I get that 'slushy rental car' feeling. (Just like whenever I test-drive a P-car, my M doesn't feel so great afterwards). Bottom line is that I want to feel the car is special, I want to be able to drive it hard on the track and not be worried about it falling apart, and I want to have a huge grin on my face while I'm doing it.
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      11-30-2019, 06:08 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
This is exactly what they're attempting to cover up. It's disappointing but they're afraid to go their own way on with building a lighter car and minimal power increases. The ZF definitely covers up the higher boost more.
If BMW built a lighter car with modest power improvements, people still wouldn't be happy. The company is in a lose/lose situation when it comes to the smaller, forum-based enthusiast group. If the car was lighter with a modest increase in power, people would complain about how the Mercedes or [insert other manufacturer here] is producing a car with a serious horsepower advantage despite being heavier. People will always find something to complain about.
Right, people disagree on the controversial styling or the lack of a MT with AWD or that it doesn't have a 48V hybrid system yet. There are always various reasons as you mentioned but isolating us "forum members" for never being happy, while true to an extent, does a disservice to the fact that M decides to put an automatic in a car that shouldn't have it. It's not a power problem as we see with the M5/M8 (that needs the ZF since it would probably fry the clutches much sooner than with a DCT), it's more of a budgeting issue. They can use the same transmission across the board that doesn't require significant investment, i.e. only minor software updating which is a much lower barrier to entry than the standalone ZF. The other aspect is that it probably saves 1-2% on emissions/gas mileage vs the DCT, which continues the bastardization of the driving experience.
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      11-30-2019, 06:09 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
That leads to two questions:
1) Why exactly do these customers need the additional 'endurance, cooling, strength' etc? (I agree it's needed on the track - though I can still only manage about 20 minute sessions before the brakes start to cook!)
2) Why did I need to pay extra for "M Performance Suspension" on my M4?



I actually agree with everything you said... right up until the last sentence.

Driving an M car in 'full auto' on the track is a frustrating and unrewarding exercise. Might as well buy a Tesla and put it in self-driving track mode with 'automatic drifting'.

As I understood it, 'M' is supposed to stand for Motorsport. Perhaps BMW need a new division for 'Overengineered Massive GT cars' (let's call it 'OMG')? ...but Mercedes already have that market covered.

As you say, the M2 is probably the best option for a driver's car right now, but that is starting to feel a little dated (especially the interior) and will also be EOP soon. So what's an M owner to do?
Did you feel the same way with the automatic E36 M3's?
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      11-30-2019, 06:12 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Right, people disagree on the controversial styling or the lack of a MT with AWD or that it doesn't have a 48V hybrid system yet. There are always various reasons as you mentioned but isolating us "forum members" for never being happy, while true to an extent, does a disservice to the fact that M decides to put an automatic in a car that shouldn't have it. It's not a power problem as we see with the M5/M8 (that needs the ZF since it would probably fry the clutches much sooner than with a DCT), it's more of a budgeting issue. They can use the same transmission across the board that doesn't require significant investment, i.e. only minor software updating which is a much lower barrier to entry than the standalone ZF. The other aspect is that it probably saves 1-2% on emissions/gas mileage vs the DCT, which continues the bastardization of the driving experience.
This isn't the first time that BMW has offered an auto in an M Car. The E36 M3 was offered with an automatic and there are a fair share of them floating around. I think there is merit to the cost cutting/streamlining comments, but I don't feel that there is much lost going from a paddle shifted DCT to a paddle shifted automatic in my experience with both transmissions. At the end of the day, I'm a die hard manual guy, so I have no real vested interest in the DCT vs AT argument. I'm merely taking a step back and looking at the entirety of the situation without the emotional component (...which is the same thing somebody who wasn't vested in manual transmissions would do if the debate were about manuals).
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      11-30-2019, 06:18 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
That leads to two questions:
1) Why exactly do these customers need the additional 'endurance, cooling, strength' etc? (I agree it's needed on the track - though I can still only manage about 20 minute sessions before the brakes start to cook!)
2) Why did I need to pay extra for "M Performance Suspension" on my M4?



I actually agree with everything you said... right up until the last sentence.

Driving an M car in 'full auto' on the track is a frustrating and unrewarding exercise. Might as well buy a Tesla and put it in self-driving track mode with 'automatic drifting'.

As I understood it, 'M' is supposed to stand for Motorsport. Perhaps BMW need a new division for 'Overengineered Massive GT cars' (let's call it 'OMG')? ...but Mercedes already have that market covered.

As you say, the M2 is probably the best option for a driver's car right now, but that is starting to feel a little dated (especially the interior) and will also be EOP soon. So what's an M owner to do?
Did you feel the same way with the automatic E36 M3's?
The DCT is a major improvement in every way for aggressive track dynamic driving over a standard automatic.

Why go backwards? For cost and because BMW really has no idea what they are doing at the moment (eg grill design, initial M4CS pricing).

The DCT is a manual transmission with paddle shifters. The best of a manual and automatic rolled into one. It's far superior for me to a Manual for aggressive driving.

Anyway, the big grill and slush box will seal the fate of this car. The final nail in the coffin will be electrification to appease the climate alarmists.
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      11-30-2019, 06:32 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
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BMW is going for a more broadly appealing car that uses shared tech. They get the benefit of lower costs and attracting buyers who may not like the behavior of the M-DCT.
There have *always* been many of those customers. They used to be the people who bought a 335i saying "it's just as good as an M3" and if they couldn't tell the difference then that was just fine ... now they buy an M340i, M350i whatever.

The M cars were supposed to have rough edges ("mummy, my DCT is not smooth enough!") and compromised comfort in exchange for superior handling and performance that enthusiasts appreciated. They cost more because the potential market was smaller.

If BMW isn't going to do that any more, then they should be honest about it and, cancel the M3 and tell everybody that the mass market "M350ixs+" is the car they should want.

That's the logical conclusion of the "forum enthusiasts are only a tiny part of the market" argument (that inevitably follows every post like this).

Personally, I'm shopping for extended warranties right now, hoping that something better will eventually appear.
We agree. Some say compromise, I say true ///M cars have character. That character is what drew me to ///M cars in the first place. As far as the tranny is concerned, BMW still chose to go a different route. I'm a manual convert and really appreciate the M-DCT, not really all that excited about the ZF.

But I'm in a similar boat as you, hanging on to my car, or at least the F80 platform, and seeing what happens.
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      11-30-2019, 06:38 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Right, people disagree on the controversial styling or the lack of a MT with AWD or that it doesn't have a 48V hybrid system yet. There are always various reasons as you mentioned but isolating us "forum members" for never being happy, while true to an extent, does a disservice to the fact that M decides to put an automatic in a car that shouldn't have it. It's not a power problem as we see with the M5/M8 (that needs the ZF since it would probably fry the clutches much sooner than with a DCT), it's more of a budgeting issue. They can use the same transmission across the board that doesn't require significant investment, i.e. only minor software updating which is a much lower barrier to entry than the standalone ZF. The other aspect is that it probably saves 1-2% on emissions/gas mileage vs the DCT, which continues the bastardization of the driving experience.
This isn't the first time that BMW has offered an auto in an M Car. The E36 M3 was offered with an automatic and there are a fair share of them floating around. I think there is merit to the cost cutting/streamlining comments, but I don't feel that there is much lost going from a paddle shifted DCT to a paddle shifted automatic in my experience with both transmissions. At the end of the day, I'm a die hard manual guy, so I have no real vested interest in the DCT vs AT argument. I'm merely taking a step back and looking at the entirety of the situation without the emotional component (...which is the same thing somebody who wasn't vested in manual transmissions would do if the debate were about manuals).
I'm in the same camp as you regarding manual transmissions.

That being said there is most definitely a difference between the DCT and the ZF. Saying it's negligible is like saying the suspension between a 340i and M3 are mostly the same. Not even close.

As for the E36 M3, that was a different era and they offered a transmission that people would want possibly, however, in today's day and age with the tech available (read DCT) why wouldn't they put the more aggressive, performance oriented variant in the car?
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      11-30-2019, 07:02 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
I'm in the same camp as you regarding manual transmissions.

That being said there is most definitely a difference between the DCT and the ZF. Saying it's negligible is like saying the suspension between a 340i and M3 are mostly the same. Not even close.

As for the E36 M3, that was a different era and they offered a transmission that people would want possibly, however, in today's day and age with the tech available (read DCT) why wouldn't they put the more aggressive, performance oriented variant in the car?
I want to further point out that US E36 M3 wasn’t really M3.

The real M3 got 5 speed or 6 speed MT and 6 speed sequential manual SMG1 (first from BMW), DTM homologation spec engine(3.0: 286-295hp, 3.2: 321hp). US E36 M3 basically was a 330i.
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      11-30-2019, 07:43 PM   #210
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“I am considering it ... but after driving RHD manual cars for 25 years in the UK, I moved to the US and it just feels *wrong* trying to shift with my right hand (being left handed probably doesn't help).“

You’ll be surprised how easy and quickly you adapt. I grew up in Scandinavia and drove only MT cars. Then I moved to South Africa on a long term expatriate contract and bought a right hand drive E36 328i MT. Weird for the 1st week then 2nd nature. I did jump in to the passenger seat a few times on my way home from the pub and wonder what happened to the steering wheel a few times though

Last edited by solstice; 11-30-2019 at 07:55 PM..
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      11-30-2019, 08:20 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Did you feel the same way with the automatic E36 M3's?
Never had an automatic transmission in an M car before the E92. It was only moving to the US that forced the decision. (My wife and I have to share this car and we spend about 2 hrs commuting in stop & go traffic each day) Even so, I've never actually let the car change gears for me.

These days I'd actually take a DCT over an MT by choice. And an MT (even with the wrong hand) over a slushbox.

Last edited by pbar; 11-30-2019 at 09:49 PM..
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      11-30-2019, 08:27 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
“I am considering it ... but after driving RHD manual cars for 25 years in the UK, I moved to the US and it just feels *wrong* trying to shift with my right hand (being left handed probably doesn't help).“

You’ll be surprised how easy and quickly you adapt. I grew up in Scandinavia and drove only MT cars. Then I moved to South Africa on a long term expatriate contract and bought a right hand drive E36 328i MT. Weird for the 1st week then 2nd nature. I did jump in to the passenger seat a few times on my way home from the pub and wonder what happened to the steering wheel a few times though
Done that a few times myself!
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      11-30-2019, 11:03 PM   #213
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Interesting conversation, but I think most people here have not driven a comparable full auto like the E63S or F90M5. Coming from a DCT M4 and DCT F10 M5 to the F90 M5 I can tell you there is zero downside to the new auto. It is an amazing transmission and worlds better from a driveability standpoint.

I am not a manual transmission hater either, I love the 6 spd in my Civic Type R and had a 6 spd E90 M3 among a long line of manuals.

The new autos remove any need for DCT, they shift just as fast, have less complexity, can handle more power and still give you all of the control. People freaked out when they moved from SMG to DCT as well. Plenty of other things to stress about with the G80 like steering feel...
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      11-30-2019, 11:11 PM   #214
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Interesting conversation, but I think most people here have not driven a comparable full auto like the E63S or F90M5. Coming from a DCT M4 and DCT F10 M5 to the F90 M5 I can tell you there is zero downside to the new auto. It is an amazing transmission and worlds better from a driveability standpoint.
As I have posted many times in this thread, I drove a C63S and a 2020 X3M Comp (with the "M-tuned" ZF8) just last month. I put both of them in the 'full-on sport' settings, and tried to drive them using the paddles.

The C63S was *OK*...(not as nice as the M4 DCT) but you should be aware that that's a multi-clutch transmission (MCT), not a slushbox. It shifted when I wanted it to, but the 8-spd box made it hard to avoid the rev limiter.

The X3M Comp was just dreadful to drive when not in 'full auto' mode. Sluggish downshifts combined with turbo lag, little audio feedback and 8-spd close ratios makes it a frustrating experience.

As an M5 driver, you're clearly comfortable with the heavy GT muscle car thing. I respect your preference. But I'm personally not interested in driving an M car in 'full auto' mode.

Last edited by pbar; 11-30-2019 at 11:35 PM..
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      11-30-2019, 11:38 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
Interesting conversation, but I think most people here have not driven a comparable full auto like the E63S or F90M5. Coming from a DCT M4 and DCT F10 M5 to the F90 M5 I can tell you there is zero downside to the new auto. It is an amazing transmission and worlds better from a driveability standpoint.

I am not a manual transmission hater either, I love the 6 spd in my Civic Type R and had a 6 spd E90 M3 among a long line of manuals.

The new autos remove any need for DCT, they shift just as fast, have less complexity, can handle more power and still give you all of the control. People freaked out when they moved from SMG to DCT as well. Plenty of other things to stress about with the G80 like steering feel...
ZF8 loses out to DCT because:

1. Low rpm limit (7300~7400 maximum rpm) due to oil cavitation inside the gearbox. DCT is rated at 9,000 rpm.

2. Paddle shift response. Both up and downshifts are sluggish compared to DCT. If upshifted near redline, ZF8 has a very noticeable delay vs. DCT which is instant.

3. Too many gears. Frustrating to wait for engine to build boost and downshift because the transmission goes into 8th gear all the time. It doesn't give users joy short shifting all the time rather than wringing out each gear to the maximum possible rpm. This gets worse with higher torque engines.
Check 4:25 of this video. Steve Sutcliffe is a proper petrolhead that points out details with which enthusiasts are concerned.


4. Overheating on track. I can't count the number of times M240i refused to downshift because the transmission temperature was too high, the drive logic putting the transmission into safe mode. This is NOT an issue with either DCT or MT.

The only "downside" to DCT is low speed driveability which they had over a decade by now to solve; look at how smooth PDK operates.

This is just M division being lazy and counting beans. If they needed to meet an increasingly stringent fuel economy rating, surely they could have optimized the S58 engine better, like AMG does with nanosliding technology (which reduces internal friction between the block and pistons) without resorting to one more gear and sluggish paddle shift response.
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      11-30-2019, 11:56 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
ZF8 loses out to DCT because:
3. Too many gears. Frustrating to wait for engine to build boost and downshift because the transmission goes into 8th gear all the time. It doesn't give users joy to shift all the time rather than wringing out each gear to the maximum possible rpm. This gets worse with higher torque engines.
I think that 'too many gears' is probably the root cause of several of my issues. There's nothing worse than needing to drop 3 gears when braking hard into a turn so you're ready for the exit. Or 5 gears when you want to pass somebody on the freeway (actually this is one of the marketing features of the ZF8).

Now, I guess it's technically possible that BMW M division could make an 8 speed box where the bottom 5 gears are spaced out nicely for track driving and the other 3 are only used in 'econo-mode'. But that would be sort of strange and would require an engine that had a wide power band. I'm sure it would hurt the fuel economy numbers.

Love the M8 video by the way - the section at 4:25 clearly shows why the gearbox sucks for driver engagement.

Last edited by pbar; 12-01-2019 at 12:03 AM..
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      12-01-2019, 12:03 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
I think that 'too many gears' is probably the root cause of several of my issues. There's nothing worse than needing to drop 3 gears when braking hard into a turn so you're ready for the exit. Or 5 gears when you want to pass somebody on the freeway (actually this is one of the marketing features of the ZF8).

Now, I guess it's technically possible that BMW M division could make an 8 speed box where the bottom 5 gears are spaced out nicely for track driving and the other 3 are only used in 'econo-mode'. But that would be sort of strange and would require an engine that had a wide power band. I'm sure it would hurt the fuel economy numbers.

Love the M8 video by the way - the section at 4:25 clearly shows why the gearbox sucks for driver engagement.
I am sure the R&D cost is very low for RWD+DCT so I am still hoping this variant makes the production. It will be an interesting comparison for them as well how many people choose AWD despite having ZF8.
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      12-01-2019, 12:42 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
I think that 'too many gears' is probably the root cause of several of my issues. There's nothing worse than needing to drop 3 gears when braking hard into a turn so you're ready for the exit. Or 5 gears when you want to pass somebody on the freeway (actually this is one of the marketing features of the ZF8).

Now, I guess it's technically possible that BMW M division could make an 8 speed box where the bottom 5 gears are spaced out nicely for track driving and the other 3 are only used in 'econo-mode'. But that would be sort of strange and would require an engine that had a wide power band. I'm sure it would hurt the fuel economy numbers.

Love the M8 video by the way - the section at 4:25 clearly shows why the gearbox sucks for driver engagement.
I agree with you here but to be fair and not becoming confusing to BMW and other manufacturers this is not about optimal lap times. It’s about feel, driver engagement and simply the love and passion of driving a car. To me the scale is MT over DCT and DCT over ZF AT. So as long as BMW offer the MT I can’t really complain.
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      12-01-2019, 12:47 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
I am sure the R&D cost is very low for RWD+DCT so I am still hoping this variant makes the production. It will be an interesting comparison for them as well how many people choose AWD despite having ZF8.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a special model like a CSL or CRT with a DCT.
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      12-01-2019, 09:06 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgmt View Post
Cost cutting.

The entire line will have the same automatic gearbox eventually.

Except perhaps if the develop a halo car - out the reach of almost all of us.

As far as stupid goes - have you seen the new grill designs? BMW is capable of being very stupid. If they put a slush box in the M3 it's game over for me and many others.
Yup, I don't get why so many people can't get this through their heads.

When BMW sees that 99.95% of the time there would be no difference between the expensive, heavy and complex gearbox versus the cheaper, lighter and simpler one, why the hell would they not go with a normal auto? Most people won't notice or give a shit. And before anyone says it Bimmerpost does not represent most people.

Merc deciding to never go down the DCT route with their AMG models (other than the AMG GT) was smart.
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