Bimmerpost
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) DCT or Traditional AT?

View Poll Results: DCT or traditional AT?
I prefer a DCT. 166 61.03%
I prefer a traditional AT. 21 7.72%
Either is fine with me. 31 11.40%
I don't care. No manual, no purchase. 54 19.85%
Voters: 272. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-12-2019, 11:42 AM   #23
SleepingBMW
First Lieutenant
United_States
252
Rep
388
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by reyoasian View Post
Problem with most DCTs nowadays (for front engines) is that they have no room to grow and can't handle as much torque as the good torque converters.
Well the problem is BMW doesn't want to develop a DCT for more power. 95% of their customer base doesn't know what that is or care, the ZF8 has a smooth launch with the torque converter. Thé ZF8 can mount an electric motor for hybrid application. The ZF8 can handle plenty of power and is mass produced right now.

We all remember how SMGs were loathed by the average Joe despite being fast and fun. DCT is slower but has the other problem, it's not special enough for people to notice it's there.

If SMG had been better received we would see development of a manual that could handle more than 470 hp and an SMG IV pump to go with it. THAT is the best scenario.

If BMW has marketed DCT better you might see more development bucks. I've heard so many old guys at the track raving about PDK being glorious and amazing. It's become a buzzword. Well SMG is faster, and M DCT is just as good by the numbers. The thing is BMW marketing didn't bother to promote either as a competitor.

In reality, SMG couldn't hack it in stop and go traffic, DCT won't work with electric motors. Manuals don't sell. I've driven all three and I recommend keeping them if you got them.

ZF8 is smooth in stop and go traffic and hybrid friendly but no soul. Shame on BMW. Sales have never been better.

We want fun driving, Leasers want comfort and they far outnumber us.

BMW would be crazy to spend money developing a new SMG/manual/DCT when 99% of buyers don't want them or care to learn to use them, and definitely won't buy them.
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2019, 04:20 PM   #24
LeedsM4
New Member
LeedsM4's Avatar
United Kingdom
8
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 2018
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Leeds, UK

iTrader: (0)

I tend to think the media or more interested in 'Gesture controls' and that the manufacturer has said that ZF is as good or better than DCT. I drive a 335d currently with ZF and it's a great gearbox. But I feel one of the main things that sets fast 3 series away from the M cars is a completely different gearbox.

Makes it feel more special and like you are getting something else for your money. This just makes me feel like BMW is being lazy or the accountants have too much control... they usually do.
Appreciate 2
DK__LA147.50

      02-24-2019, 05:51 PM   #25
Ibiza
Major
Ibiza's Avatar
United_States
1084
Rep
1,330
Posts

Drives: 2018 F83 ZCP & 2018 F85
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dXdriver View Post
This just makes me feel like BMW is being lazy or the accountants have too much control... they usually do.
It's all about economics of scale these days, standardized OEM part suppliers across the entire product portfolio and maximize ROI.
__________________
2018 X5M 1/18 PCD
2018 M4 cabrio ZCP- ED 9/17- PCD 12/17
Retired:
2015 X5 50i PCD, 2015 435 Cabrio ED, 2011 X3 PCD, 2011 335is Cabrio ED/PCD, 2007 X3is PCD, 2007 335i Cabrio PCD, 2004 328i Cabrio PCD
Appreciate 2
      02-25-2019, 04:56 PM   #26
LeedsM4
New Member
LeedsM4's Avatar
United Kingdom
8
Rep
16
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 2018
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Leeds, UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
You can really tell in this new generation of BMWs. The interiors are all virtually identical in styling, materials and colors choices. Cognac Vernasca leather seems to be the standard press photo choice. Even the packages have the same equipment.
This! I've been finding it really hard to get excited over the new models of late, G20 3 Series, 8 Series, X5, X3 etc... And it's down to that exact reason. They're all the same inside! Exactly same steering wheel, exactly same dashboard, exactly the same seats just about.

It's almost like they don't like making cars anymore... I like the F30 generation because I always think of it being it's own thing. I.e, it doesn't share any looks with the 5 series. Now I genuinely have to look at them for a while to make different models out.
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2019, 11:38 AM   #27
captainaudio
World's Foremost Authority
captainaudio's Avatar
United_States
1147
Rep
4,537
Posts

Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT

iTrader: (0)

I vote for traditional AT. I never could figure out how to drive the dual clutch. Two feet, four pedals?
Attached Images
 
__________________

Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England
Appreciate 0
      03-01-2019, 02:53 PM   #28
norberts
Private First Class
72
Rep
136
Posts

Drives: M2, D5
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I'll just say this. IF I choose to go auto and not manual, DCT is the only option. I will not buy the car if it's not DCT.
Appreciate 1
DK__LA147.50

      03-02-2019, 02:35 PM   #29
z335is
First Lieutenant
155
Rep
386
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newark

iTrader: (0)

DCT / MT or bust for me.
Appreciate 1
DK__LA147.50

      03-02-2019, 05:26 PM   #30
Ibiza
Major
Ibiza's Avatar
United_States
1084
Rep
1,330
Posts

Drives: 2018 F83 ZCP & 2018 F85
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by norberts View Post
I'll just say this. IF I choose to go auto and not manual, DCT is the only option. I will not buy the car if it's not DCT.
Adios amagios. If I put you blind folded in my F85, you couldn't tell it was a AT, the M programmed ZF transmission is that good. BMW is NOT investing R&D into a DCT MxDrive transmission with ZF. I just returned from Arjeplog, Sweden and in discussion with BMW and ZF engineers, all the R&D is focused on developing electric power trains.
__________________
2018 X5M 1/18 PCD
2018 M4 cabrio ZCP- ED 9/17- PCD 12/17
Retired:
2015 X5 50i PCD, 2015 435 Cabrio ED, 2011 X3 PCD, 2011 335is Cabrio ED/PCD, 2007 X3is PCD, 2007 335i Cabrio PCD, 2004 328i Cabrio PCD
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2019, 05:32 PM   #31
Ibiza
Major
Ibiza's Avatar
United_States
1084
Rep
1,330
Posts

Drives: 2018 F83 ZCP & 2018 F85
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by norberts View Post
I'll just say this. IF I choose to go auto and not manual, DCT is the only option. I will not buy the car if it's not DCT.
No G80 for you then. Maybe no more BMW for you altogether.
The G80 test mules arrived in Arjeplog last week, as I saw 2 G80's last week leaving the BMW Winter Test Area at sunset. Paparazzi were spotted in the area, as the high profile vehicles test at night to avoid being photographed. Compared to the upcoming M8 coupe, M8 Convertible, X5M, X6 and X6M that were visible during the day adjacent to the ice track I was training on.
__________________
2018 X5M 1/18 PCD
2018 M4 cabrio ZCP- ED 9/17- PCD 12/17
Retired:
2015 X5 50i PCD, 2015 435 Cabrio ED, 2011 X3 PCD, 2011 335is Cabrio ED/PCD, 2007 X3is PCD, 2007 335i Cabrio PCD, 2004 328i Cabrio PCD
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2019, 07:05 AM   #32
kyrix1st
Major
kyrix1st's Avatar
Japan
696
Rep
1,055
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Euro, E36/7, E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kyoto

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Adios amagios. If I put you blind folded in my F85, you couldn't tell it was a AT, the M programmed ZF transmission is that good. BMW is NOT investing R&D into a DCT MxDrive transmission with ZF. I just returned from Arjeplog, Sweden and in discussion with BMW and ZF engineers, all the R&D is focused on developing electric power trains.
I will be happy as long as BMW M invests in developing proper RWD-only sports car. MT/DCT is a start for sDrive(pure RWD I guess?) models.

Really hope the next M3 isn't a knockoff of AWD based models and offers distinct driving experience. Not interested in switchable AWD that relies heavily on electronics...
__________________
Pass me if you can.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2019, 11:40 AM   #33
Ibiza
Major
Ibiza's Avatar
United_States
1084
Rep
1,330
Posts

Drives: 2018 F83 ZCP & 2018 F85
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
I will be happy as long as BMW M invests in developing proper RWD-only sports car. MT/DCT is a start for sDrive(pure RWD I guess?) models.

Really hope the next M3 isn't a knockoff of AWD based models and offers distinct driving experience. Not interested in switchable AWD that relies heavily on electronics...
Might have to consider the M2 then.
__________________
2018 X5M 1/18 PCD
2018 M4 cabrio ZCP- ED 9/17- PCD 12/17
Retired:
2015 X5 50i PCD, 2015 435 Cabrio ED, 2011 X3 PCD, 2011 335is Cabrio ED/PCD, 2007 X3is PCD, 2007 335i Cabrio PCD, 2004 328i Cabrio PCD
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2019, 11:29 AM   #34
kyrix1st
Major
kyrix1st's Avatar
Japan
696
Rep
1,055
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Euro, E36/7, E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kyoto

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Might have to consider the M2 then.
Might sit this one out. BMW M wants to take detour I guess..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post

Any possibility of AWD M3/M4 this generation?
No. We orientated on lightweight-ness and steering precision for M3/M4.
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=973551
__________________
Pass me if you can.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2019, 08:09 PM   #35
captainaudio
World's Foremost Authority
captainaudio's Avatar
United_States
1147
Rep
4,537
Posts

Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Adios amagios. If I put you blind folded in my F85, you couldn't tell it was a AT, the M programmed ZF transmission is that good. BMW is NOT investing R&D into a DCT MxDrive transmission with ZF. I just returned from Arjeplog, Sweden and in discussion with BMW and ZF engineers, all the R&D is focused on developing electric power trains.
\When I drive my DCT M4 and then my ZF 8 Speed Jaguar I really have a hard time telling the difference. In manual mode they both shift instantly and smoothly. In automatic mode they both always seem to be in the right gear.
__________________

Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2019, 08:54 PM   #36
///M TOWN
.
///M TOWN's Avatar
2484
Rep
2,550
Posts

Drives: ///M
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: North America

iTrader: (0)

When the ZF8 shifts as good if not better than M-DCT, then why does it matter?

Do you feel it shifts to soft? My DCT in Sport Plus is completely vicious, and will completely destroy my rear tires in nothing flat, if I am not careful. Is that what you're after, something that is adjustable characteristically wise?
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2019, 08:58 PM   #37
dmboone25
Major General
dmboone25's Avatar
United_States
4433
Rep
9,959
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 M3 ZCP/DUC M1200S
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [0.00]
2007 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN. View Post
When the ZF8 shifts as good if not better than M-DCT, then why does it matter?

Do you feel it shifts to soft? My DCT in Sport Plus is completely vicious, and will completely destroy my rear tires in nothing flat, if I am not careful. Is that what you're after, something that is adjustable characteristically wise?
“Better” is subjective. I like the characteristics associated with the DCT and PDK. Every ZF I’ve ever been in has been slow and sloppy. And the “best” attribute I’ve heard about the ZF in the M5 is that it’s really smooth...not that it’s fast or has tactility. Smoothness.

I remain skeptical.
__________________
Past rides: 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 1
Craigy42.00

      03-11-2019, 09:23 PM   #38
///M TOWN
.
///M TOWN's Avatar
2484
Rep
2,550
Posts

Drives: ///M
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: North America

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
"Better" is subjective. I like the characteristics associated with the DCT and PDK. Every ZF I've ever been in has been slow and sloppy. And the "best" attribute I've heard about the ZF in the M5 is that it's really smooth...not that it's fast or has tactility. Smoothness.

I remain skeptical.
You'd have to drive it I guess.

It's just a cost saving measure on BMWs part.

Subjective is correct it's sort of like sex... Smooth is great, but sometimes you want it hard and fast.
Appreciate 2
JTO242443.50

      03-12-2019, 08:19 AM   #39
10"
Major
10"'s Avatar
2261
Rep
1,430
Posts

Drives: orange BMW 1M.
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Brooklyn

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
“Better” is subjective. I like the characteristics associated with the DCT and PDK. Every ZF I’ve ever been in has been slow and sloppy. And the “best” attribute I’ve heard about the ZF in the M5 is that it’s really smooth...not that it’s fast or has tactility. Smoothness.

I remain skeptical.
Agreed. The ZF gearbox marketed as 'fast' but to me it feels like a super ordinary old school slushbox automatic with fancy programming.
__________________
don't read this. too late...
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2019, 12:06 PM   #40
kyrix1st
Major
kyrix1st's Avatar
Japan
696
Rep
1,055
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Euro, E36/7, E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kyoto

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
Audi keeps DCT for the R8. Says enough.
__________________
Pass me if you can.
Appreciate 1
Craigy42.00

      03-13-2019, 02:18 PM   #41
Craigy
Sporty Puristic 6
Craigy's Avatar
42
Rep
384
Posts

Drives: '09 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Louisiana

iTrader: (0)

Still saddened to see even more confirmations that BMW is moving their M models to automatics.

This is a cost decision, plain and simple. They could pull an off-the-shelf box from their current supplier getrag that could handle whatever torque they throw at it. ZF will make all their 3 and 4 series cars uniformly gelatinous.

Probably time for me to move on from BMW anyway.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2019, 03:45 PM   #42
Miko M
///M
Miko M's Avatar
United_States
5111
Rep
3,187
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C. 2020 X3M
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

For me MT

Probably one off the last MT for ///M
__________________
Life is too short...enjoy your life
///M
Appreciate 1
M 4EVER186.50

      03-16-2019, 08:00 PM   #43
M 4EVER
Banned
187
Rep
292
Posts

Drives: M240/M5/X3
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Usa

iTrader: (0)

I would love to drive MT but I suck in this. Lol
Appreciate 0
      03-19-2019, 07:20 PM   #44
shyu0622
New Member
12
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
Got to test drive the new M5 at an M Experience Day in Thermal. That thing is a rocket, and it's got the ZF TC transmission, so...

My F80 bucks in traffic, and I can't say I enjoy it very much. I have it in comfort mode with everything tuned down, and it still struggles at times.

Before the M3, I had the Lexus ISF, which also had a torque converter transmission (not a ZF), and the shifts were pretty quick.

Bottom line is, you'll probably lose more drag races due to not being able to get the power down than the car not shifting fast enough.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 PM.




g20
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST