BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
G80 BMW M3 and M4 General Topics BMW M3 (G80), M4 (G82), CSL and 3.0 CSL General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-01-2019, 11:32 AM   #1
seis-speed
#savethemanuals
seis-speed's Avatar
United_States
2426
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: 1M | GT3 | J392 | GRc
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: West Coast

iTrader: (0)

Future Manual Transmission Buyers Thread

Now that we know BMW is offering a manual, let’s get excited and discuss the G80 with the vigor it ‘now’ deserves.

The F80 was a lot of fun in 6MT, such a different experience than the DCT. Based off of that, if the G80 uses the same box, I am guessing it will feel largely the same....


G80 specific
Will we have rev-matching?
What modes will have it?
Will we get a switch to turn it off?
Can pedal placement be improved for heel/toe?
Anyone think an AWD/6MT will be available?

Fire away......
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2019, 05:11 AM   #2
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
24810
Rep
22,222
Posts

Drives: '22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ..in your rearview!!!

iTrader: (26)

I don't mind the rev matching, modes, etc. I use them on the F8X and I'm sure I will should I opt for a G8X. I think I'm more concerned with the possibility of the MT being offered with significantly less power than the other variant(s).
Appreciate 1
ks73.00
      08-02-2019, 01:46 PM   #3
upsidedownfunnel
Colonel
United_States
1996
Rep
2,499
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2014 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I don't mind the rev matching, modes, etc. I use them on the F8X and I'm sure I will should I opt for a G8X. I think I'm more concerned with the possibility of the MT being offered with significantly less power than the other variant(s).
I don't think it will be significantly less power. The original propositions seemed to indicate it would just be 31hp which is less than 10%. Who knows if the difference would even be noticeable with how BMW rates their engine power.

I think rev-matching should be an option that can be defeated in a custom mode.
Appreciate 2
      08-02-2019, 08:58 PM   #4
captainaudio
World's Foremost Authority
captainaudio's Avatar
United_States
1181
Rep
4,535
Posts

Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
I don't think it will be significantly less power. The original propositions seemed to indicate it would just be 31hp which is less than 10%. Who knows if the difference would even be noticeable with how BMW rates their engine power.

I think rev-matching should be an option that can be defeated in a custom mode.
I totally agree. A manual transmission that rev matches is a semi-manual transmission.
__________________

Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England
Appreciate 2
mikeahso411.50
      08-02-2019, 10:04 PM   #5
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

As long as it has three pedals it’s all good. I often switch between cars with manuals that has all the latest tech ( hill hold, rev. match up and down etc. ) and cars with no tech. ( including no ABS ). The tech. really makes very little difference once you learnt how to use it and not have it compared to the difference of having a third pedal and not having a third pedal. Minor pros and cons with tech. But that third pedal make all the difference in the world to the driving experience.
Appreciate 8
Sedan_Clan24809.50
seis-speed2426.00
kern4174442.00
SYT_Shadow11421.00
MomoM3981.00
      08-02-2019, 10:07 PM   #6
mikeahso
Private First Class
New Zealand
412
Rep
142
Posts

Drives: various
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

I'm hoping for..
- Can turn off rev matching easily / quickly
- M5 type AWD that can be switched to RWD
- pure model has less aggressive styling
- space grey (a girl can dream)
- filthy deep straight six roar (ok now I'm really dreaming)

I don't care if it has less power than the other versions. They're already powerful enough.

Enough of the "iPhone marketing" with these cars. "But now it has 5% more power and special black/chrome something, so the previous one you have is junk".
Appreciate 2
Lucky1639.50
      08-03-2019, 07:48 AM   #7
Miko M
///M
Miko M's Avatar
United_States
6649
Rep
3,683
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C. 2020 X3M
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

I wish for NO rev matching : because it takes all the fun and engagement out of driving.

AWD 6MT most likely will not happen in mine opinion.
But couldn't complain for folks that are in colder climates.

Pedal placement is easy fix for me
__________________
Life is too short...enjoy your life
///M
Appreciate 3
M 4EVER191.00
Lucky1639.50
///M TOWN13117.00
      08-03-2019, 02:54 PM   #8
m20e3087
Major
m20e3087's Avatar
No_Country
1143
Rep
1,406
Posts

Drives: G87
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M2C  [0.00]
I am not worried about the power, tune it to match the AWD version or stage one it and we are good to go. This most likely be the last 3 pedal M3/4, and after G80 I will jump on the 718 or 911 band wagon.
Appreciate 2
peeej58.00
      08-04-2019, 09:42 PM   #9
Matteo88
Private First Class
Canada
63
Rep
159
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 6MT ZUP
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

i'm a die hard 6MT RWD guy but i wouldn't necessarily be opposed to having awd as an option. i'd probably rarely use it but it would be fun in the winter for sure.

agree rev matching should be disable-able in all modes if possible.

i'm not at all concerned with lower power vs other modes, particularly if the G80 has more power than the current F80 ZCP. this platform already has more power than you can typically use day to day and there is such a thing as too much power--if you can't put that power down it's wasted and that's frustrating. the most fun cars to drive are the ones where you can access 100% of their performance (approach the limit) often. not the ones where power overwhelms traction or vice-versa.
__________________
Current ride - 2017 F80 M3 ZUP 6MT BSM
Previous - 2013 Hyundai Genesus Coupe 3.8GT 6MT
- 2006 RSX Type S 6MT
- 2003 RSX Type S 6MT
Appreciate 5
      08-04-2019, 10:22 PM   #10
themnmd
Colonel
themnmd's Avatar
United_States
1687
Rep
2,699
Posts

Drives: 23 X5MC
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: San Rafael CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
6 speed vs AWD, not both
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2019, 08:25 AM   #11
Pic18
First Lieutenant
United_States
304
Rep
351
Posts

Drives: 18' F80 Comp, Spec E46
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NoVA

iTrader: (0)

After getting used to it I actually really like the rev-match feature and think it can actually add a bit of fun to street driving. That said I do not know why it can't just be a separate button that you turn on and off at will. When it is useful to you turn it on, when it is not turn it off.
Appreciate 2
kpgray333.00
      08-05-2019, 11:15 AM   #12
frankiebones
Brigadier General
frankiebones's Avatar
5297
Rep
3,056
Posts

Drives: Fire Orange G80 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

I am ok with Rev Matching as long as it can be disabled in Sport+. The later models (F80 before it went out of production and F82s made in recent months) have Rev Matching in all 3 throttle maps.

I had 50k miles on my 16 F80 when I jumped into an M3 CS. The Rev Matching was VERY inconsistent the entire time, would work for a day and then not work for a week...it was insane.
__________________
Fire Orange 6MT G80 (Miss July, 2021 Cover of Bimmerpost)
SMB M3 CS (gone)
YMB F80 6MT (gone)
Appreciate 1
      08-05-2019, 11:59 AM   #13
6MTFTMFW
First Lieutenant
6MTFTMFW's Avatar
84
Rep
392
Posts

Drives: 2018 F30 340i 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SE USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW 440i  [0.00]
2018 BMW 340i  [0.00]
This whole thread is a dream come true and super exciting.
Will have to get one as the last MT M3.
So glad all of the tesla lickers were wrong and MT M3 will exist.
__________________
Appreciate 3
      08-05-2019, 05:09 PM   #14
captainaudio
World's Foremost Authority
captainaudio's Avatar
United_States
1181
Rep
4,535
Posts

Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
After getting used to it I actually really like the rev-match feature and think it can actually add a bit of fun to street driving. That said I do not know why it can't just be a separate button that you turn on and off at will. When it is useful to you turn it on, when it is not turn it off.
\\


Exactly the way I feel.
__________________

Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England
Appreciate 1
Pic18303.50
      08-05-2019, 07:39 PM   #15
Miko M
///M
Miko M's Avatar
United_States
6649
Rep
3,683
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C. 2020 X3M
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
After getting used to it I actually really like the rev-match feature and think it can actually add a bit of fun to street driving. That said I do not know why it can't just be a separate button that you turn on and off at will. When it is useful to you turn it on, when it is not turn it off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I am ok with Rev Matching as long as it can be disabled in Sport+. The later models (F80 before it went out of production and F82s made in recent months) have Rev Matching in all 3 throttle maps.

I had 50k miles on my 16 F80 when I jumped into an M3 CS. The Rev Matching was VERY inconsistent the entire time, would work for a day and then not work for a week...it was insane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
After getting used to it I actually really like the rev-match feature and think it can actually add a bit of fun to street driving. That said I do not know why it can't just be a separate button that you turn on and off at will. When it is useful to you turn it on, when it is not turn it off.
\\


Exactly the way I feel.
If i may ask: Knowing to rev-match what's the point to have one?
It's a habit where you don't even think, you just do it. It's programmed in your subconscious mind. Which means you are doing it without knowing it!
__________________
Life is too short...enjoy your life
///M
Appreciate 1
seis-speed2426.00
      08-05-2019, 11:15 PM   #16
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
If i may ask: Knowing to rev-match what's the point to have one?
It's a habit where you don't even think, you just do it. It's programmed in your subconscious mind. Which means you are doing it without knowing it!
I suspect many mix rev match and throttle blip. As you say everyone who ever driven a manual quickly learn to rev. match. My 75 year old mum, still zip around town in her manual no rev. match car and shifts smoothly up and down as the rest of 80% or so of European car drivers without thinking.

What I think some enthusiasts here is talking about is not rev. matching but tracking your MT car where you balance the car on the edge of grip into corners and can’t afford upsetting the rear with engine braking or be clutched out for any extended time and mitigate it with heel toe action and throttle blip. This is trickier to master every time.

The auto rev. match help you with both scenarios. Is it necessary? Nope but it is nice to have the option, I’m sure even my mom would appreciate if we get it in her next car
Appreciate 1
      08-06-2019, 03:17 AM   #17
enigma01
Fight On!
enigma01's Avatar
United_States
109
Rep
325
Posts

Drives: e92 M3; g30 530e
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rancho Santa Fe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I suspect many mix rev match and throttle blip. As you say everyone who ever driven a manual quickly learn to rev. match. My 75 year old mum, still zip around town in her manual no rev. match car and shifts smoothly up and down as the rest of 80% or so of European car drivers without thinking.

What I think some enthusiasts here is talking about is not rev. matching but tracking your MT car where you balance the car on the edge of grip into corners and can’t afford upsetting the rear with engine braking or be clutched out for any extended time and mitigate it with heel toe action and throttle blip. This is trickier to master every time.

The auto rev. match help you with both scenarios. Is it necessary? Nope but it is nice to have the option, I’m sure even my mom would appreciate if we get it in her next car

Not sure if I follow the distinction you are drawing between blipping the throttle and rev-matching. Any blip in the throttle is to match the engine rev to the wheel rev before the clutch is re-engaged regardless of where it is performed (e.g. in a straight line or around a corner), and as such, the former is just a way to achieve the latter. Is there any other kind of rev-matching?

On a separate topic, I typically downshift in the braking zone before the turn-in, so I will rarely be caught in between gears through a corner to worry about rev-matching.

I do agree though that the auto rev-match feature can be beneficial in certain conditions. As long as it can be turned off independent of the drive mode (i.e. don't force me to be in Sport+ to turn it off), I don't mind it.
Appreciate 1
Miko M6648.50
      08-06-2019, 04:31 AM   #18
Pic18
First Lieutenant
United_States
304
Rep
351
Posts

Drives: 18' F80 Comp, Spec E46
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NoVA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
If i may ask: Knowing to rev-match what's the point to have one?
It's a habit where you don't even think, you just do it. It's programmed in your subconscious mind. Which means you are doing it without knowing it!
Ultimately the "heal/toe" technique is a racing technique that is required and regularly used on the race track (I race a Spec E46 so I am familiar). That said it is not really necessary or required in 95% of street driving.

For me personally, with my size 13 feet, the only time I feel totally comfortable heal/toeing is under threshold or at least hard braking (I lift my heal rather than roll my foot), and it usually requires the use of driving shoes. I guess one could argue that is a technique issue, but once again I do not see the need to pretend I am a race car driver on the street.

For me being able to still have the control of the clutch and ability to select the gears myself is all the satisfaction I need and hearing the car perfectly rev match for me is actually satisfying. Yes there are rare occurrences on the street where I want to do it myself and on the track I would like to have that option in a mode other than sport plus, but I think it is a great feature that should continue but should have an on and off option no matter the mode.
Appreciate 4
Miko M6648.50
M 4EVER191.00
GearRex193.50
      08-06-2019, 10:01 AM   #19
Miko M
///M
Miko M's Avatar
United_States
6649
Rep
3,683
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C. 2020 X3M
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pic18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
If i may ask: Knowing to rev-match what's the point to have one?
It's a habit where you don't even think, you just do it. It's programmed in your subconscious mind. Which means you are doing it without knowing it!
Ultimately the "heal/toe" technique is a racing technique that is required and regularly used on the race track (I race a Spec E46 so I am familiar). That said it is not really necessary or required in 95% of street driving.

For me personally, with my size 13 feet, the only time I feel totally comfortable heal/toeing is under threshold or at least hard braking (I lift my heal rather than roll my foot), and it usually requires the use of driving shoes. I guess one could argue that is a technique issue, but once again I do not see the need to pretend I am a race car driver on the street.

For me being able to still have the control of the clutch and ability to select the gears myself is all the satisfaction I need and hearing the car perfectly rev match for me is actually satisfying. Yes there are rare occurrences on the street where I want to do it myself and on the track I would like to have that option in a mode other than sport plus, but I think it is a great feature that should continue but should have an on and off option no matter the mode.
I use heal/toe mainly in higher revs on track for example. On the street you let the rev go down and you don't drop the clutch.
Some people call it blip because besides heal/toe downshifting you can blip the throttle when down shift without touching the brake or up shift to rev match.
I guess it's nice to have the option for most people but like to have it to be turned off.
__________________
Life is too short...enjoy your life
///M
Appreciate 2
Pic18303.50
M 4EVER191.00
      08-06-2019, 10:17 AM   #20
Miko M
///M
Miko M's Avatar
United_States
6649
Rep
3,683
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C. 2020 X3M
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
If i may ask: Knowing to rev-match what's the point to have one?
It's a habit where you don't even think, you just do it. It's programmed in your subconscious mind. Which means you are doing it without knowing it!
I suspect many mix rev match and throttle blip. As you say everyone who ever driven a manual quickly learn to rev. match. My 75 year old mum, still zip around town in her manual no rev. match car and shifts smoothly up and down as the rest of 80% or so of European car drivers without thinking.

What I think some enthusiasts here is talking about is not rev. matching but tracking your MT car where you balance the car on the edge of grip into corners and can't afford upsetting the rear with engine braking or be clutched out for any extended time and mitigate it with heel toe action and throttle blip. This is trickier to master every time.

The auto rev. match help you with both scenarios. Is it necessary? Nope but it is nice to have the option, I'm sure even my mom would appreciate if we get it in her next car
I agree with some statement but, you never want to shift mid corner.
That can hurt you on the track, specially if you drop the clutch to fast
__________________
Life is too short...enjoy your life
///M
Appreciate 2
solstice5456.50
M 4EVER191.00
      08-06-2019, 10:24 AM   #21
kyrix1st
Colonel
kyrix1st's Avatar
2351
Rep
2,359
Posts

Drives: G87 M2; E92M3 MT&DCT; M3 euro
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: nyc

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
I agree with some statement but, you never want to shift mid corner.
That can hurt you on the track, specially if you drop the clutch to fast
I personally wouldn't mind rev match if I were to track the car stock.

Brakes are so shit on E92 you sometimes miss downshift timing into a corner.

__________________
Pass me if you can.
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2019, 11:49 AM   #22
seis-speed
#savethemanuals
seis-speed's Avatar
United_States
2426
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: 1M | GT3 | J392 | GRc
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: West Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
If i may ask: Knowing to rev-match what's the point to have one?
It's a habit where you don't even think, you just do it. It's programmed in your subconscious mind. Which means you are doing it without knowing it!
I think in city driving stop/go slowing for turns, etc... it is a pretty good feature, also having my wife or a valet drive the car it is easier to drive. In fact, the new 6MT’s are so easy to drive with this feature that many who don’t get the 6MT are making a mistake, IMO.

On a spirited drive though, I never have it on, no matter what car I am driving, the rev-math down to 2nd or 3rd is one of my favorite aspects of driving, so an option to have it for people who need a simpler easier manual is good, but it has to turn off in some way.

G80 6MT discussion =
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 AM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST