[xenon]

I would agree. Standard lights are perfectly acceptable but nothing special but if you don’t do a great deal of rural night driving they’ll do the job. Shame they’re not as good as standard xenons though.
FWIW, I regret not getting the visibility pack.

[P-ToK72]

Originally Posted by JNW1

But in a sense that's part of the conundrum the OP faces! I don't think the M135i comes with laser lights - or even has them available as an option - so if you considered the lights on your car excellent they're going to be no better than the standard adaptive LED's that come with an M340i. That being the case the laser lights have to be going some to justify spending an extra £1500 and, if you don't do much night driving on country roads, the benefit's marginal IMO.

Correct, the M135i doesn't have Laser Lights but it has the clever trickery where it deflects the beam to suit traffic etc rather than just switch high beam on and off.

That's the bit i was referring to but I guess I wasn't very clear.

[P-ToK72]

Originally Posted by xenon

FWIW, I regret not getting the visibility pack.

Same here

[siwatkins]

Originally Posted by barian

It might be helpful to separate out the additional features of the visibility pack. Firstly, there is the longer range main beam with the laser lights. Second, the selective beam forming which, in effect, allows most of the main beam illumination to remain on when there is approaching traffic, or vehicles ahead. I came from a Mercedes with ILS (intelligent light system) which had the beam forming but not the long range laser lights. I found the Mercedes system very good and my starting point was that I wanted the visibility pack on the BMW. However, when I specced the other things I definitely wanted, like driver assistance, adding the visibility pack would have taken me over the £40k list point with the higher VED, so the effective cost over 5 years would, in my case have been around £3k not £1.5k. Having read the comments here, and taking into account my pattern of use which involves very little driving on unlit rural roads, I decided that was too much. But I was worried that I had made a mistake. As it turns out, I am happy with my choice.

Going back to the separate benefits of the visibility pack, I think that the main beam range of the adaptive LED's is good enough that I wouldn't drive faster if I could see further ahead, although I appreciate others might take a different view (no pun intended!). In relation to the selective beam forming, I find the standard adaptive light function, while obviously not as good, does provide surprisingly good illumination when dipped. In particular it picks out the nearside of the road very well. My overall conclusion (and I appreciate I have not made a direct comparison) is that on unlit rural roads with other traffic the visibility pack would probably allow me safely to drive a little bit quicker, but that is it.

I should add that, if the OP opts for the standard lights, he would be well advised to add the high beam assistant (HBA) which is £150 through the Connect Drive store. In my case, if the net cost had been £1350 rather than £3k and even though I do very little driving on rural roads, I would probably have gone for the visibility pack. But then I am a sucker for technology and there is some pleasure to be derived from seeing the lights do their magic tricks. So, as others have commented, a lot may depend on the pattern of use. Even allowing for this, if the OP is concerned that not opting for the visibility pack will prove a serious limitation, I think he should not be.

Really really helpful - thank you.

I am too a sucker for technology. And £1500 buys a lot of technology with a lot of functionality that can add a step change in terms of capability. Think cameras, and say iPads, that give you capability where there was none. In this case, it’s really high tech and cool yes. But in terms of capability enhancement it’s incremental and modest. As you nicely put it - it might allow slightly faster driving at night beyond an already good capability standard. Cool yes - fricken lasers! What does it allow you to do that you couldn’t do before without it - that’s slightly less compelling. Really good food for thought and helps zone in on the choice. Which might still be made with the heart! 😂

[siwatkins]

Originally Posted by xenon

I would agree. Standard lights are perfectly acceptable but nothing special but if you don’t do a great deal of rural night driving they’ll do the job. Shame they’re not as good as standard xenons though.
FWIW, I regret not getting the visibility pack.

Thanks - did you get standard or adaptive leds? I have the standard leds on my 435D - I’m not finding them wanting in general - most people comment that the lights are really good. But appreciate we all gauge things relatively. And mine were relative to my prior car and my wife’s bmw mini and her halogen lights were really really bad - unsafe in my view.

[xenon]

What you might want to do if comparing side by side is not practical is to drive a car with standard LEDs and see if you regard them as satisfactory for your needs - if you do, you have your answer. I thought before buying that the “adaptive” LEDs would be good, as they were in my previous A6, but they’re just adequate in my opinion. Certainly not as good as the A6 which had three LED emitters per side whereas the standard lights on the BMW have only one. Which looks a bit odd, too - the inner light is just a dummy which is a bit crap.

[goodbyalfa]

Originally Posted by siwatkins

Really really helpful - thank you.

I am too a sucker for technology. And £1500 buys a lot of technology with a lot of functionality that can add a step change in terms of capability. Think cameras, and say iPads, that give you capability where there was none. In this case, it’s really high tech and cool yes. But in terms of capability enhancement it’s incremental and modest. As you nicely put it - it might allow slightly faster driving at night beyond an already good capability standard. Cool yes - fricken lasers! What does it allow you to do that you couldn’t do before without it - that’s slightly less compelling. Really good food for thought and helps zone in on the choice. Which might still be made with the heart! 😂

Its is not about being able to drive faster in my opinion that the shape forming lights are better, it is the improved visibility and hence safety that they deliver.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by P-ToK72

Correct, the M135i doesn't have Laser Lights but it has the clever trickery where it deflects the beam to suit traffic etc rather than just switch high beam on and off.

That's the bit i was referring to but I guess I wasn't very clear.

In which case I think you're saying potentially the benefit is coming more from having the selective beam function than the laser lights per se? On main beam I don't think the laser lights in my car are much better than the xenons were on main beam in my old F31 or that the LED's on main beam are in Mrs JNW1's Cooper S. However, what I will concede is the selective beam function allows at least some of the main beam function to remain operational for longer and yes, there's obviously some benefit in that.

But personally I don't find (for example) the LED's on the Mini to be unacceptable on dipped beam so if I was speccing again I'd still be thinking of the Visibility Pack as a nice to have rather than a must have; ETTO though!

[4monks]

Also worth remembering that LLs only come on when you're > 37 mph.

[siwatkins]

Thanks all - some really helpful thoughts in here. I think I’m of the view this is an option I’d like rather than need. That doesn’t mean I won’t choose it. I think cars are mostly about purchases made with heart than head! Certainly for these kinds of cars. There’s already lots of options I’ve ticked on the car that are nice rather than need to have. And some I have to have rather than want that come along for the ride as it were when you tick a package. Grateful for the chat. S

[paulockenden]

I don't understand why people say they are only good for country lane driving. I find the 'dancing' lights most useful on A roads.

[paulockenden]

Originally Posted by 4monks

Also worth remembering that LLs only come on when you're > 37 mph.

But the visibility pack is about MUCH more than LLs.

[xenon]

For country roads read “unlit roads”. But I agree, I used them in my F31 all the time.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by paulockenden

I don't understand why people say they are only good for country lane driving. I find the 'dancing' lights most useful on A roads.

Well ok, unlit roads might have been a better term to use! Although having said that A-roads tend to be more heavily trafficked and therefore the laser lights are on full main beam for less of the time than they are on a country B-road.

And while the selective beam function is nice to have I can't say I've been blown away by it and it's something I could no longer live without. In my time driving I'd say easily the biggest change I've noticed with headlights was the move from halogen to xenons; they really were a significant improvement but for me xenons to laser lights hasn't been anything like the same step change.

[xenon]

Originally Posted by JNW1

In my time driving I'd say easily the biggest change I've noticed with headlights was the move from halogen to xenons; they really were a significant improvement but for me xenons to laser lights hasn't been anything like the same step change.

Upgrading from halogens to xenon is a quantum leap but LEDs aren’t really designed to be a significant improvement from xenon, and usually high-intensity discharge will outperform LEDs. The advantage of LEDs is that they’re still hugely better than halogen but much cheaper and much less complex than HID. The adaptive xenon with beam-shaping on my F31 were the best lights I’ve had. Shame about the rest of it.

[Rhino at Work]

My take on this.

I had the full dancing Xenons and then LEDs in my 2 F30s. Both were great and not really much difference between the two. Hand on heart though I didn't need them (but then nobody truly needs a six pot engine do they?).

If you're in tick every box mode then get laser lights. For me with my G21 I wasn't so the panoramic roof was a preferable use of the budget and I don't regret the decision.

ETTO of course.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Rhino at Work

My take on this.

I had the full dancing Xenons and then LEDs in my 2 F30s. Both were great and not really much difference between the two. Hand on heart though I didn't need them (but then nobody truly needs a six pot engine do they?).

If you're in tick every box mode then get laser lights. For me with my G21 I wasn't so the panoramic roof was a preferable use of the budget and I don't regret the decision.

ETTO of course.

Agree with that - if I had to choose between keeping my panoramic roof or the laser lights the roof would win every time!

[ukbeemerboy]

Originally Posted by 4monks

Also worth remembering that LLs only come on when you're > 37 mph.

You can manually over ride this. The HBA will only bring them on over 37 mph

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by xenon

Upgrading from halogens to xenon is a quantum leap but LEDs aren’t really designed to be a significant improvement from xenon, and usually high-intensity discharge will outperform LEDs. The advantage of LEDs is that they’re still hugely better than halogen but much cheaper and much less complex than HID. The adaptive xenon with beam-shaping on my F31 were the best lights I’ve had. Shame about the rest of it.

Yes, the move to LED's was always more about efficiency - I don't think they're any better than xenons when it comes to brightness although to be fair I don't think the manufacturers ever really claimed that to be the case.

I did think laser lights would represent a noticeable improvement over normal LED's or xenons but I'm not really sure that's true either; they're a bit better but for me it's the selective beam function that makes the difference rather than any additional benefit from the laser lights. Seems like I was just expecting too much!

[Stooo]

Compared to most options the vis pack is fairly low utility. It doesn't add anything extra as such, the standard lights are powerful and you can buy HBA on a cyber Monday deal for £100.
Compared to the tech pack, drive assist, pano roof or M sport seats? very poor value.

Good value compared to the shadowline pack for the 340's though, £800 to remove all the unique trim that makes your car look like a 340? yeah...

[Talisman77]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Yes, the move to LED's was always more about efficiency - I don't think they're any better than xenons when it comes to brightness although to be fair I don't think the manufacturers ever really claimed that to be the case.

I did think laser lights would represent a noticeable improvement over normal LED's or xenons but I'm not really sure that's true either; they're a bit better but for me it's the selective beam function that makes the difference rather than any additional benefit from the laser lights. Seems like I was just expecting too much!

From an objective standpoint it seems the IIHS saw a fairly substantial difference https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle...022#headlights

[gashead76]

Having come from adaptive leds and now having the lasers only last week, lasers certainly outperform the adaptives and are just cool to see them do their thing, worth £1500 though, look and function..... for me, haven't regretted it at all and would tick that box again.