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      12-01-2020, 12:04 PM   #1
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Road&Track Performance Car of the Year

https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews...r-of-the-year/

The M8 Competition shows up to represent BMW. With some interesting contenders this year including the RAM TRX pick up and the Polestar 1 PHEV.


But the winner is....
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It was the quickest vote in PCOTY history. A unanimous choice that should be obvious by now. The Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 is a true triumph, and one of the all-time great pony cars. A genre-redefining epic that brings a little Trans Am to the street and makes you feel like a hero on the track. There are so few cars like this, a willing partner thoughtfully designed and engineered to be a track rat and a back-road demon alike, an ultra-high-performance brute that’s useful in all kinds of weather. Even without our car’s optional Track Pack, the GT500 is beyond capable.
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      12-01-2020, 12:59 PM   #2
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Quite like the Shelby, but really not a surprising win here considering the lineup of 4 cyls, GT cars, and a truck (not their fault I know). Comparing it to the Cayman T, 4 sec/lap is a lot, but I’d expect more with over 2.5x the power and cup2’s
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      12-01-2020, 01:05 PM   #3
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My eyes simply fail to acknowledge any Mustang as anything. I get that some are fast, some are not. Honestly, I see so many of them, even when I see a nice one, I still don't don't give a shit.
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      12-01-2020, 01:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rudi View Post
My eyes simply fail to acknowledge any Mustang as anything. I get that some are fast, some are not. Honestly, I see so many of them, even when I see a nice one, I still don't don't give a shit.
That's stupid.

Mustangs and 3-series sell at about the same amounts every year. Who cares how many they make?
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      12-01-2020, 02:00 PM   #5
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lol what a dumb test.

I bet the next comparo test will be a camaro ZL1 vs toyota 86 vs acura TLX
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      12-01-2020, 02:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rudi View Post
My eyes simply fail to acknowledge any Mustang as anything. I get that some are fast, some are not. Honestly, I see so many of them, even when I see a nice one, I still don't don't give a shit.
They are very common, but you really can't beat the performance per $. Despite the commonality I am actively planning on condensing my 440i and Corvette down into a GT PP or a used GT350.
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      12-01-2020, 02:19 PM   #7
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Very deserving win. Recent Shelby GT products are excellent, particularly the 350 which is just addicting to drive.
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      12-01-2020, 03:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack View Post
They are very common, but you really can't beat the performance per $.
really ? tell this to the 'less' expensive C8 .........

https://www.corvetteforum.com/articl...the-half-mile/
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      12-01-2020, 03:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikado463 View Post
really ? tell this to the 'less' expensive C8 .........

https://www.corvetteforum.com/articl...the-half-mile/
I think it was pretty obvious he meant Mustangs in general. Not just the GT500.

If you're willing to pick up last year's model, you can buy a 460 hp pony car with a manual under $30k. That's a lot of car for the money.
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      12-01-2020, 04:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
That's stupid.

Mustangs and 3-series sell at about the same amounts every year. Who cares how many they make?
You're right. My opinion is stupid. Again, I don't care how many they make. A mustang will never find a home in my garage. Again, I realize there are some really nice mustangs, but there are some really nice Honda's as well, it doesn't mean I will buy one. In the town I live in at least 1 in 5 cars is a Mustang. Pass.

Also, BMW 3 series and Mustang sales are nowhere near about the same amount every year. Since 2017 Mustangs outsell BMW 3 series by roughly 30k units annually, thus my point. I also wouldn't own a Challenger for the same reason. Do I like fast cars? Yes. Do I want to own the same fast car that everyone else owns? No, as I am not everyone else. Hell, I'll drive a slower car just not to drive the same damn car as everyone else on the road. Regardless of speed or performance, it's just another Mustang in my eyes.
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Last edited by King Rudi; 12-01-2020 at 04:11 PM..
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      12-01-2020, 04:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
I think it was pretty obvious he meant Mustangs in general. Not just the GT500.

If you're willing to pick up last year's model, you can buy a 460 hp pony car with a manual under $30k. That's a lot of car for the money.
gotcha and with that being said IMO for the $$ value I think one of the best is the the Camaro SS with the 1LE package. I would be surprised to see 'any' car at it's price point beat it on the track.
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      12-02-2020, 08:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikado463 View Post
gotcha and with that being said IMO for the $$ value I think one of the best is the the Camaro SS with the 1LE package. I would be surprised to see 'any' car at it's price point beat it on the track.
Agreed. I traded my F80 M3 for an SS1LE and I loved the way it drove. Only sold it to get more room for the kiddies.

I saw a GT500 at a dealership over the weekend. They only wanted $130k for it.

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      12-02-2020, 09:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikado463 View Post
gotcha and with that being said IMO for the $$ value I think one of the best is the the Camaro SS with the 1LE package. I would be surprised to see 'any' car at it's price point beat it on the track.
Agreed. I test drove one back at the end of 2017 and ALMOST pulled the trigger on it. Being on the short side at 5'7" it fit me really well, but the truck is tiny and it is hard to see out of.

Although, a quick stab of the throttle will put anything in your blind spot well behind you.

Even with track insurance, I realized I probably didn't want to take a $45k 455hp car, that would also be my daily driver, to the track.
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      12-02-2020, 02:13 PM   #14
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GT500 is a great car. The Cayman T coming in second is a testament to the 718. Can imagine if they’d gotten a GT4 it would have been able to usurp the GT500.
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      12-02-2020, 02:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rudi View Post
You're right. My opinion is stupid. Again, I don't care how many they make. A mustang will never find a home in my garage. Again, I realize there are some really nice mustangs, but there are some really nice Honda's as well, it doesn't mean I will buy one. In the town I live in at least 1 in 5 cars is a Mustang. Pass.

Also, BMW 3 series and Mustang sales are nowhere near about the same amount every year. Since 2017 Mustangs outsell BMW 3 series by roughly 30k units annually, thus my point. I also wouldn't own a Challenger for the same reason. Do I like fast cars? Yes. Do I want to own the same fast car that everyone else owns? No, as I am not everyone else. Hell, I'll drive a slower car just not to drive the same damn car as everyone else on the road. Regardless of speed or performance, it's just another Mustang in my eyes.
By 3-series I mean the entire model range including the 4-series. Both the Mustang and 3/4 sell around 70K units per year. With those numbers, there's no difference in exclusivity between a GT500 and a M3/4.

It's fine to have preferences but writing a car off completely to the point you have to state that you don't recognize them is ridiculous at best.
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      12-02-2020, 03:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobC2 View Post

I saw a GT500 at a dealership over the weekend. They only wanted $130k for it.

WOW, what's that , 30k plus over msrp ?
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      12-02-2020, 03:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
By 3-series I mean the entire model range including the 4-series. Both the Mustang and 3/4 sell around 70K units per year. With those numbers, there's no difference in exclusivity between a GT500 and a M3/4.

It's fine to have preferences but writing a car off completely to the point you have to state that you don't recognize them is ridiculous at best.
While I feel he may have embellished his wording a bit, I got the impression he lives in a place like me. I see few luxury brands where I live because the closest dealers are 1 to 2 hours away. I see at least 10 mustangs if not more every single day. I don't even pay attention to them. Same thing with things like hellcats. I could drive past a 392 or a hellcat and not even notice because I just passed 5 other chargers that look kind of like it in the last 5 miles.
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      12-02-2020, 03:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rudi View Post
You're right. My opinion is stupid. Again, I don't care how many they make. A mustang will never find a home in my garage. Again, I realize there are some really nice mustangs, but there are some really nice Honda's as well, it doesn't mean I will buy one. In the town I live in at least 1 in 5 cars is a Mustang. Pass.

Also, BMW 3 series and Mustang sales are nowhere near about the same amount every year. Since 2017 Mustangs outsell BMW 3 series by roughly 30k units annually, thus my point. I also wouldn't own a Challenger for the same reason. Do I like fast cars? Yes. Do I want to own the same fast car that everyone else owns? No, as I am not everyone else. Hell, I'll drive a slower car just not to drive the same damn car as everyone else on the road. Regardless of speed or performance, it's just another Mustang in my eyes.

I'm with you on this one. I think what bugs me about the Mustang is it's the "de-facto" sports car in its segment. It's extremely capable, and a fantastic car, but it's a boring choice in terms of variety, not driving dynamics.

Going to most likely get flamed here, but I feel the exact same way about any generation Vette or 911. They're incredible performers, and I respect what they're capable of, but I'll never give enough of a shit about them to own one. It's why I chose my R8 over a C2S or C4S, or anything else in that range. I was bored of the 911 before I even set foot into the dealership. And for an emotional purchase like this, I want to want to drive it. Nine years later and I still own my R8, and I'll probably never get rid of it unless I wreck it or it blows up.

Not taking anything away from the GT500. I'm happy it won, and can put my personal biases aside enough to recognize that it earned it over the available competition. But I'll most likely never own one. I'm happy riding in my neighbors' (yes plural) when the occasion arises.
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      12-02-2020, 06:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strohw View Post
While I feel he may have embellished his wording a bit, I got the impression he lives in a place like me. I see few luxury brands where I live because the closest dealers are 1 to 2 hours away. I see at least 10 mustangs if not more every single day. I don't even pay attention to them. Same thing with things like hellcats. I could drive past a 392 or a hellcat and not even notice because I just passed 5 other chargers that look kind of like it in the last 5 miles.
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Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
I'm with you on this one. I think what bugs me about the Mustang is it's the "de-facto" sports car in its segment. It's extremely capable, and a fantastic car, but it's a boring choice in terms of variety, not driving dynamics.

Going to most likely get flamed here, but I feel the exact same way about any generation Vette or 911. They're incredible performers, and I respect what they're capable of, but I'll never give enough of a shit about them to own one. It's why I chose my R8 over a C2S or C4S, or anything else in that range. I was bored of the 911 before I even set foot into the dealership. And for an emotional purchase like this, I want to want to drive it. Nine years later and I still own my R8, and I'll probably never get rid of it unless I wreck it or it blows up.

Not taking anything away from the GT500. I'm happy it won, and can put my personal biases aside enough to recognize that it earned it over the available competition. But I'll most likely never own one. I'm happy riding in my neighbors' (yes plural) when the occasion arises.

This is it exactly. I always embellish my wording. I've been around for a few years now, most here have already come to realize my personality.....those with personality pick up on it pretty quickly; those that do not....call me ridiculous....at best.
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      12-02-2020, 06:22 PM   #20
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Someone in Munich needs to start listening.
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Originally Posted by Road & Track
But while the BMW does everything objectively well on track, there’s something missing. It’s a tired refrain with modern BMWs, that they’re not what they used to be, but it still rings true. The M8 is fast, with outstanding brakes, and it can obviously obliterate a track, but it does it in a way that feels clinical. It’s without joy, like it wants to please a stopwatch more than a human. Hogan put it best: “Technically good, you just won’t be having any fun. How does this BMW make light oversteer in a 600-hp monster feel so boring?”

It could be the steering. Once a hallmark of the brand, BMW’s electric rack is overboosted and numb, keeping you distant. Sorokanich also had a gripe with the sheer amount of drive modes available: “It’s completely overwhelming and it leads you to constantly question the setting you’ve chosen. I’m left wondering who this car is for.”
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      12-02-2020, 06:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikado463 View Post
WOW, what's that , 30k plus over msrp ?
Yes actually. Fully loaded up with $30k dealer ADM. So many other cars I would be looking at for that price. Next door, the used C8s were a bargain at only $108k. LOL
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      12-02-2020, 07:06 PM   #22
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Many folks can't afford "specialty" cars over $100K. I could, choose to put dollars elsewhere.

I did get kick out of 911 comment, (actually I spit my mocha out) What a world we live in where 911 are common place and don't excite.

Whew...I need to move to that world.
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