[lemetier]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

All we can hope for now is the government passing T-TIP. It provides for unified vehicle safety standards, which would make it easier to import EU vehicles.

It's in process

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Instead we'll get a 4 series GC and the 3 series GT. Niche cars as well

Don't forget the 5GT.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the niche products *too* much. But that they choose to sell every other niche product here and not the wagon is infuriating, particularly when other manufacturers are doing it.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

The X3 is built in Usa versus the F31 in Munich. My guess is that they want more suv on the road as the don't have to pay import duties, expensive shipping and long delay for order. Money talk as usual.

Oh absolutely. Importing them is a huge financial undertaking. I get it. What I don't get, or appreciate, is that they don't consider wagon buyers enthusiasts. More often than not, wagon buyers in the US *are* enthusiasts. So throw us a bone. You make an X5M. You make an X6M. You made how many M4 GTSs? Make a performance wagon and send us some. They could do it if they chose to.

But nevermind that. We just want an executive wagon. And they won't even send us one.

[SCOTT26]

The X1 and X3 and to an extent the 3er GT outsells the 3er Touring.
Its not the fault of the vehicle but it is the state of the market with the customer choosing the SUV over the core model.
Which when the next X3 arrives next year will increase its popularity because its an all new model which will eclipse current platforms.

And then there is also the exciting BMW X2 which forgoes the existing Coupe dynamic roofline of its X4 and X6 brethren for a more Touring-esque outline but will offer performance models.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The X1 and X3 and to an extent the 3er GT outsells the 3er Touring.
Its not the fault of the vehicle but it is the state of the market with the customer choosing the SUV over the core model.
Which when the next X3 arrives next year will increase its popularity because its an all new model which will eclipse current platforms.

And then there is also the exciting BMW X2 which forgoes the existing Coupe dynamic roofline of its X4 and X6 brethren for a more Touring-esque outline but will offer performance models.

Audi is selling much more Q5 than they do sell Allroad but still they will bring the next gen Allroad. Mercedes is selling ton of GLC but still they decide to bring back the C-Class wagon. The E-Class wagon is selling much less than the GLE but they still sell it. Volvo is selling alot of XC60 but they still offer the V60. We could say the same about the GT that they are pointless because bmw is selling X4 and X6 anyway. How come Audi, Mercedes, Volvo and Volkswagen are able to find a business case on the wagon when bmw can't? Oh I forgot even opel is now considering the Insigna tourer in North America...

[atopa2002]

wow G05 in 2018, that means no LCI for F15 x4 ?

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Don't forget the 5GT.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the niche products *too* much. But that they choose to sell every other niche product here and not the wagon is infuriating, particularly when other manufacturers are doing it.

I don't disagree at all, but.....it turns out the 5GT has outsold the 5er wagon in the U.S. Having said that last year at the Chicago auto show a BMWNA executive told me that they considered their decision not to import the F11 a mistake. In light of that this current announcement doesn't seem to make sense. And, having said that....it seems to me that Merc sells significantly more E Class wagons than C Class wagons. Maybe BMWNA will decide to import the G31 wagon this time.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I don't disagree at all, but.....it turns out the 5GT has outsold the 5er wagon in the U.S. Having said that last year at the Chicago auto show a BMWNA executive told me that they considered their decision not to import the F11 a mistake. In light of that this current announcement doesn't seem to make sense. And, having said that....it seems to me that Merc sells significantly more E Class wagons than C Class wagons. Maybe BMWNA will decide to import the G31 wagon this time.

Yeah, honestly a bigger wagon (the G31) might actually make more sense from their perspective than the G21. Might sell better. If they could find it in their hearts to bring the G31 here, I would be all in.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by miamiten

The Z5 Roadster and Z6 Coupe, along with their model derivatives, will be the new market position competitors.

Well, as for the Zs, you should visit bmwblog.com right about now.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Oh absolutely. Importing them is a huge financial undertaking. I get it. What I don't get, or appreciate, is that they don't consider wagon buyers enthusiasts. More often than not, wagon buyers in the US *are* enthusiasts. So throw us a bone. You make an X5M. You make an X6M. You made how many M4 GTSs? Make a performance wagon and send us some. They could do it if they chose to.

But nevermind that. We just want an executive wagon. And they won't even send us one.

It would be cool if they'd at least offer the ability to order a wagon, even if they didn't keep inventory on lots.

I understand there is BMWNA 'zoning' of each vehicle brought overseas required, but it's nice to dream.

[goj]

OK so on this G20 M340i, I really hope they make it a proper performance machine. Get rid of the open diff, and make the exhaust sound great from the factory.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Well, as for the Zs, you should visit bmwblog.com right about now.

Still bits and pieces mixed together. There are so many additional layers of isolation between most of the departments and suppliers for the JV overall and for the individual models for both companies, even the most reliable sources for leaks are a source for incorrect Intel. The truth is, it's already begun and will be far larger than initially planned and revealed.

Since any curious person can search for images and connect the proverbial dots...

It's not coincidental these two bodies in white are extremely similar.

[nbennettksu]

5 years on the nicest X5 they've done? I suppose that is subjective though

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by miamiten

even the most reliable sources for leaks are a source for incorrect Intel.

Ahem.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by nbennettksu

5 years on the nicest X5 they've done? I suppose that is subjective though

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. All big X's are made in Spartanburg. G01 starts production next year. G02 - soon after that. G07 - approximately the same time as G02. If F15/F16 were allowed to stay in production for the full 7 year cycle, Spartanburg wouldn't be able to have a single platform (CLAR) production process until second half of 2020 or later (if you give F16 the 7 year cycle too). With the shortened F15 cycle, however, by 2019 this plant will be building what is basically the same vehicle wearing different size suits.
....
Profit!

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Ahem.

Don't take it personal. You have to admit there's some incorrect information leaked otherwise there would be no need for updates and corrections. In the past this was almost always unintentional. All product programs will have some changes as they mature. With the Joint Venture though, there is intentional slight of hand occurring. This was designed into the entire info sharing agreement for Chassis and Propulsion technology. The Joint (Cost) Venture Sports Car was a 3rd and optional component.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. All big X's are made in Spartanburg. G01 starts production next year. G02 - soon after that. G07 - approximately the same time as G02. If F15/F16 were allowed to stay in production for the full 7 year cycle, Spartanburg wouldn't be able to have a single platform (CLAR) production process until second half of 2020 or later (if you give F16 the 7 year cycle too). With the shortened F15 cycle, however, by 2019 this plant will be building what is basically the same vehicle wearing different size suits.
....
Profit!

There is a slight refresh of the X5 and X6 coming soon. Although there are no dramatic changes, just slight refresh with updated features but no major exterior work. Think of something on par with the BMW i3 in which exterior wise nothing is different. The F15 X5 is days away from its third birthday so its arrival will not seem as short as it appears to be.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by atopa2002

wow G05 in 2018, that means no LCI for F15 x4 ?

You mean the F26 X4? It was introduced at the same time that the F25 X3 got its LCI, and if you look at the headlights, the X4 shares the same headlights as the post-LCI F25. So I'm guessing the F26 X4 was introduced as an already refreshed post-LCI model the same way that the E82 1M was.

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The X1 and X3 and to an extent the 3er GT outsells the 3er Touring.
Its not the fault of the vehicle but it is the state of the market with the customer choosing the SUV over the core model.

Here's the thing that BMW product managers fail to understand: wagon buyers (in the U.S.) may not be high-volume customers, but they are the best kind of customers. They are the brand loyalists/enthusiasts/BMW CCA members/etc. They are the "car guy/gal" in their peer group (the one who everyone asks for car shopping advice), the coveted "social media influencers" that savvy companies fall over themselves to court.

A product manager might see the 3GT has a higher average transaction price than the Touring while selling similar volume and think "Oh, we should just kill the Touring; those customers will just move to a crossover/GT/GC." They would be totally missing the point; those 3GT buyers are probably mostly random car shoppers that were steered into the GT by an opportunistic CA. When asked what model car he bought, he just says "A BMW", because he doesn't even know what his weird hatchback thing is actually called. Meanwhile, the Touring buyer did ED on his M-sport F31 and posted all about it on social media, and probably evangelizes to everyone that will listen how awesome his BMW wagon is.

While the sales numbers might be similar, that Touring customer is worth at least 10x as much to the brand as that random 3GT customer that will probably get a Merc or Audi when his lease is up.

Other brands realize the value of wagon enthusiasts in the U.S.:
-In their press for the new E-class wagon, Merc reps pointed out that while wagon volume isn't high, E wagon customers are their wealthiest customers
-Volvo has clearly prioritized wagons in their resurgence since coming under Chinese ownership; that new V90 is a masterpiece, and a new V60 and possibly V40 are on their way to the states
-The VW Sportwagen is about the only thing keeping VW dealers afloat right now; they can't give away Golfs/GTIs/Jettas/Passats (don't believe me? Check the insane discounts on Cars.com for every VW vehicle except the Sportwagen and ultra low-volume Golf R)
-VW is doubling down on the Sportwagen by bringing the Alltrack later this year
-Audi is bringing back the Allroad, despite lackluster sales. They must know something BMW doesn't.
-Subaru literally can't make enough Outbacks; people go to the Subie dealer to be told they have to wait 3-4 months for the opportunity to buy one

There is a trend brewing above, and BMW is too busy chasing the current trend (crossovers) to see the next emerging one. My Millennial sister drives a wagon, and it's the only vehicle type that's appealing to any of her peers. There was a study on the most popular used cars among Millenials recently, and six out of the top ten were wagons/hatches (the only crossover on the list was Pontiac Aztek, obviously only for its irony value/Breaking Bad association). That generation has no spending power right now, but as boomers slowly enter retirement, Millennials can't help but grow their income. VW, Subaru, and Volvo are sure positioned to get their money; will BMW miss the boat?

Personally, the 3 Touring died for me with the E91, since the F31 doesn't offer RWD or a 6MT. A decent condition E91 RWD 6MT basically never depreciated, even more so if it was an M-sport. The F31 occupies a weird spot, because it is $50k+ but isn't overtly sporty (lifted ride height, open diffs, no 6MT, not that quick, etc.) nor overtly luxurious. I'd rather give up a foot of cargo length and just get a true sporty AWD hatch like the Focus RS or Golf R and pocket $10k+, or spend the same to be swaddled in a luxurious/ stylish V90, or spend a bit more to get totally ostentatious luxury (E wagon)-with awesome rear-facing jump seats to boot!

[GFK007]

So basically the f80 gets killed off 20 months prior to the f82...

Is that normal??

Also - super bummed to see the f31 go.

[111R]

I think that one of the reasons that BMW has trouble moving F31 touring models in the USA is that they load them down with X-drive and sunroof - two options I wouldn't care for if buying one. I get it that folks in the NE, upper Midwest, and Rocky Mountain states want X-drive, but here in the SE plus out west in California, it's worse than useless.

Get a low-priced RWD/no sunroof version that would sell for thousands less than current models for the young families that might consider one. Offer a 340i RWD version for enthusiasts. Also, the diesel version would make more sense with a RWD option to maximize MPG.

Audi has the same problem with their stupid 'Allroad' version of the A4 Avant. I have no desire for tacky black plastic cladding and jacked up ride height. What do most owners in non-frozen states do with these AWD vehicles anyway? Hop curbs at the mall?

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by 111R

I think that one of the reasons that BMW has trouble moving F31 touring models in the USA is that they load them down with X-drive and sunroof - two options I wouldn't care for if buying one. I get it that folks in the NE, upper Midwest, and Rocky Mountain states want X-drive, but here in the SE plus out west in California, it's worse than useless.

Get a low-priced RWD/no sunroof version that would sell for thousands less than current models for the young families that might consider one. Offer a 340i RWD version for enthusiasts. Also, the diesel version would make more sense with a RWD option to maximize MPG.

Audi has the same problem with their stupid 'Allroad' version of the A4 Avant. I have no desire for tacky black plastic cladding and jacked up ride height. What do most owners in non-frozen states do with these AWD vehicles anyway? Hop curbs at the mall?

Agreed. They cite lackluster wagon sales while only giving us a turbo-4 with AWD, and one tranny option. That's all fine, but give us some options here. Even the original X1 had a turbo-6 option for crying out loud, and that thing was the medical alert bracelet of cars. (I kid)