Euro Spec M340i vs M4 vs M550i Drag Race

Dirtyg20M · 05-04-2020, 12:03 AM

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Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtyg20M

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtyg20M

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

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Originally Posted by Dirtyg20M

Firstly, we are all M car owners, so nothing against other enthusiasts. I feel M3/4 owners are getting butt-hurt and are claiming this video is staged when it's clearly not.

This video is factual. I've raced M3/4 and even a CS my neighbor has one (overpriced in my opinion), but the results were the same - poor traction and they start to get in their power-band and hookup once it's too late. Definitely if it were an airstrip race the M3/4 would blow the M340i away, but in the real world no one wants to race past 150mph. Lol 😂

Listen, I'm not trying to shit on anyone - I respect my M3/4 bro's, but for those who don't know you gotta respect that M340i it's quick and with a simple tune - for the money it's a better car "my opinion".

It's sole purpose is to bridge the gap for a consumer who is not looking for bucket seats, outdated interiors with limited tech. Have you seen the Audi's as of late?

That's talking about the current outdated F-series, but once the G80 drops this thread and post will be irrelevant as I'm sure it will not have issues accelerating from a dig - look at the M8. 💪🏾

My apologies if I hurt anyone's feelings, but ppl talking about M340i guys like we settled for an inferior car because we can't afford an M3/4 is Ridiculous and untrue as they are practically leasing for the same and the M3/4 will only go down in price as the G80 debuts - plus sprinkle in a little covid-19 discounts. 🤣🤣🤣

Just saying!

Such is the case when new models come out.

What I am questioning is why you got an M340i if drag racing is your only metric. RT Scat Pack us a second faster in the 1/4 mile and $10k cheaper.

The mistake is assuming that the M3/4 was designed to compete in a drag, and should be compared with the M340i in that regard. You said yourself, in the real world no one wants to race past 150mph... but what you really mean is the public roads. In the real world, you can't even hit 150mph without risking jail time, impound, or worse: killing someone. So really, a M340i that never sees a track and only needs to apply to the public roads is fine: a fast 0-60 to zip in and out of traffic. The M3/4, if you have ever owned one, is fine on the street, but not ideal: it wants to go fast and it feels unfairly restrained on the street, out of it's element.

It's such a strange phenomena comparing traffic light racing to any form of real racing. It probably takes 10 seconds to hit 100mph in a M340i. In most cases the drag race will be over by then-so ~10 seconds of "racing" which you can't even do legally. That's supposed to count more than a circuit, where it's completely legal to hit triple digit speeds for as long as you dare? One day on a road circuit amounts to more time at a high performance threshold than all the street "racing" anyone can do in a year. 4*20 minute circuit course sessions=80 minutes=4800seconds=480 drag races. 480 drag races where you don't even turn the wheel and hit the brakes once... compared to a circuit course with multiple turns, multiple brake zones... just overall more demands on the car and driver. But a dozen drag races is somehow the metric?

Yes, actually.... for those who just want a fast street car, hence the M340i. For those who want more though, a "real" M car. "Real" is in quotes because a real M car is a thing of the past in terms of marketing. BMW will take advantage of the average consumer's incapacity to distinguish between the M Performance and an M. BMW thinks that the uninformed consumer will now accept the M Performance car as M cars because marketing has told them so. Case in point: the entire discussion in this thread about 0-60 times and drag racing and the notion that the M340i is a "real" M car. Those that know the history of M cars know better than to compare drag times, it was never the goal of BMW Motorsports. Comparing drag times only shows that the consumer doesn't know the real difference between M Performance and M.

Case in point:

Attend any BMW M School – instruction in high performance driving at the BMW Performance Centers. Lessons include: autocross, circuit, drift. Guess which one is missing? Drag.

Thank you for the history lesson and M course. Honestly, I'm confused on where this conversation has gone.

I agree these cars are two separate animals and serve to completely different purposes. That being said, marketing or not I'm happy with my M340i, but it will be short lived once the G80 drops. 😎

That wasn't a history lesson. M School does not currently nor previously include drag. FYI, M School was designed by BMW and the M division. If anyone, they should know what areas of performance that the M cars are designed to excel at. That's why there is no drag component.

That was a lesson only if you didn't know about it previously. If you were already aware of these things, not only would I not have to bother telling you about it, but you wouldn't have made the mistake of placing such an emphasis on drag racing.

Again what's your point?

Since the M division does not include drag racing in their lessons - we should totally disregard drag racing, and all the millions of drag races that M's have lost don't matter because you said so?

Is that right? Okay got it.

Thanks for the lesson! 👊🏾

The point was that the M cars weren't designed to win drag races. It's not at the school because the M cars aren't drag cars. Drag racing M cars is like doing tractor pulls. Yes, a big truck is going to pull more weight than a M3. Why should we care? M3 wasn't designed to tow. M3 wasn't designed to drag either. Why should we care if the M340i competes with it? First of all, it's in a different class being AWD and it's probably got different gearing ratios.

Another point: you drag for maybe 10 seconds. The other 23hrs, 59 minutes, and 50 seconds in the day your still just in a second banana 3 series.

I'm trying to be nice and tell you have a nice car, but you keep coming back with these ego driven replies because some weird inferiority complex with and older generation M car on its way out. It's baffling.

Ego or not, you're wasting your time! This conversation is officially done.

jmg · 05-04-2020, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtyg20M

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtyg20M

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtyg20M

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtyg20M

Firstly, we are all M car owners, so nothing against other enthusiasts. I feel M3/4 owners are getting butt-hurt and are claiming this video is staged when it's clearly not.

This video is factual. I've raced M3/4 and even a CS my neighbor has one (overpriced in my opinion), but the results were the same - poor traction and they start to get in their power-band and hookup once it's too late. Definitely if it were an airstrip race the M3/4 would blow the M340i away, but in the real world no one wants to race past 150mph. Lol 😂

Listen, I'm not trying to shit on anyone - I respect my M3/4 bro's, but for those who don't know you gotta respect that M340i it's quick and with a simple tune - for the money it's a better car "my opinion".

It's sole purpose is to bridge the gap for a consumer who is not looking for bucket seats, outdated interiors with limited tech. Have you seen the Audi's as of late?

That's talking about the current outdated F-series, but once the G80 drops this thread and post will be irrelevant as I'm sure it will not have issues accelerating from a dig - look at the M8. 💪🏾

My apologies if I hurt anyone's feelings, but ppl talking about M340i guys like we settled for an inferior car because we can't afford an M3/4 is Ridiculous and untrue as they are practically leasing for the same and the M3/4 will only go down in price as the G80 debuts - plus sprinkle in a little covid-19 discounts. 🤣🤣🤣

Just saying!

Such is the case when new models come out.

What I am questioning is why you got an M340i if drag racing is your only metric. RT Scat Pack us a second faster in the 1/4 mile and $10k cheaper.

The mistake is assuming that the M3/4 was designed to compete in a drag, and should be compared with the M340i in that regard. You said yourself, in the real world no one wants to race past 150mph... but what you really mean is the public roads. In the real world, you can't even hit 150mph without risking jail time, impound, or worse: killing someone. So really, a M340i that never sees a track and only needs to apply to the public roads is fine: a fast 0-60 to zip in and out of traffic. The M3/4, if you have ever owned one, is fine on the street, but not ideal: it wants to go fast and it feels unfairly restrained on the street, out of it's element.

It's such a strange phenomena comparing traffic light racing to any form of real racing. It probably takes 10 seconds to hit 100mph in a M340i. In most cases the drag race will be over by then-so ~10 seconds of "racing" which you can't even do legally. That's supposed to count more than a circuit, where it's completely legal to hit triple digit speeds for as long as you dare? One day on a road circuit amounts to more time at a high performance threshold than all the street "racing" anyone can do in a year. 4*20 minute circuit course sessions=80 minutes=4800seconds=480 drag races. 480 drag races where you don't even turn the wheel and hit the brakes once... compared to a circuit course with multiple turns, multiple brake zones... just overall more demands on the car and driver. But a dozen drag races is somehow the metric?

Yes, actually.... for those who just want a fast street car, hence the M340i. For those who want more though, a "real" M car. "Real" is in quotes because a real M car is a thing of the past in terms of marketing. BMW will take advantage of the average consumer's incapacity to distinguish between the M Performance and an M. BMW thinks that the uninformed consumer will now accept the M Performance car as M cars because marketing has told them so. Case in point: the entire discussion in this thread about 0-60 times and drag racing and the notion that the M340i is a "real" M car. Those that know the history of M cars know better than to compare drag times, it was never the goal of BMW Motorsports. Comparing drag times only shows that the consumer doesn't know the real difference between M Performance and M.

Case in point:

Attend any BMW M School – instruction in high performance driving at the BMW Performance Centers. Lessons include: autocross, circuit, drift. Guess which one is missing? Drag.

Thank you for the history lesson and M course. Honestly, I'm confused on where this conversation has gone.

I agree these cars are two separate animals and serve to completely different purposes. That being said, marketing or not I'm happy with my M340i, but it will be short lived once the G80 drops. 😎

That wasn't a history lesson. M School does not currently nor previously include drag. FYI, M School was designed by BMW and the M division. If anyone, they should know what areas of performance that the M cars are designed to excel at. That's why there is no drag component.

That was a lesson only if you didn't know about it previously. If you were already aware of these things, not only would I not have to bother telling you about it, but you wouldn't have made the mistake of placing such an emphasis on drag racing.

Again what's your point?

Since the M division does not include drag racing in their lessons - we should totally disregard drag racing, and all the millions of drag races that M's have lost don't matter because you said so?

Is that right? Okay got it.

Thanks for the lesson! 👊🏾

The point was that the M cars weren't designed to win drag races. It's not at the school because the M cars aren't drag cars. Drag racing M cars is like doing tractor pulls. Yes, a big truck is going to pull more weight than a M3. Why should we care? M3 wasn't designed to tow. M3 wasn't designed to drag either. Why should we care if the M340i competes with it? First of all, it's in a different class being AWD and it's probably got different gearing ratios.

Another point: you drag for maybe 10 seconds. The other 23hrs, 59 minutes, and 50 seconds in the day your still just in a second banana 3 series.

I'm trying to be nice and tell you have a nice car, but you keep coming back with these ego driven replies because some weird inferiority complex with and older generation M car on its way out. It's baffling.

Ego or not, you're wasting your time! This conversation is officially done.

"Drag Race" is literally in the title of this thread. How am I off topic?

brava09 · 05-04-2020, 12:31 AM

Why is that we never see M owners '"gosh, I wish I had bought that M-watered down performance car instead of my real M" ?

chris719 · 05-04-2020, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brava09

Why is that we never see M owners '"gosh, I wish I had bought that M-watered down performance car instead of my real M" ?

They are great cars, but it's clearly envy speaking when they post about their "kills". Every bro with an E90 335i back in the day was bragging about how their car "kills" the E46 M3, but they fail to see the point. The E46 M3 was a more fun car to drive and has more feel and feedback, period.

upsidedownfunnel · 05-04-2020, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719

They are great cars, but it's clearly envy speaking when they post about their "kills". Every bro with an E90 335i back in the day was bragging about how their car "kills" the E46 M3, but they fail to see the point. The E46 M3 was a more fun car to drive and has more feel and feedback, period.

Pretty much exactly what it is. The sad thing is that the M340i is otherwise such a good car. By modern standards, it's a very well balanced daily driver sport sedan. It has comfort, ergonomics, technology, speed, and handling. It's just not an M car and it's not supposed to be.

chris719 · 05-04-2020, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

Pretty much exactly what it is. The sad thing is that the M340i is otherwise such a good car. By modern standards, it's a very well balanced daily driver sport sedan. It has comfort, ergonomics, technology, speed, and handling. It's just not an M car and it's not supposed to be.

Yes, they are all great cars and made for different buyers.

DenHaag3er · 05-04-2020, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719

They are great cars, but it's clearly envy speaking when they post about their "kills". Every bro with an E90 335i back in the day was bragging about how their car "kills" the E46 M3, but they fail to see the point. The E46 M3 was a more fun car to drive and has more feel and feedback, period.

Ah yes, that totally objective feel and feedback. The safest retreat for an M3 owner.

I'll take the modern car with a killer engine.

DenHaag3er · 05-04-2020, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

The point was that the M cars weren't designed to win drag races. It's not at the school because the M cars aren't drag cars. Drag racing M cars is like doing tractor pulls. Yes, a big truck is going to pull more weight than a M3. Why should we care? M3 wasn't designed to tow. M3 wasn't designed to drag either. Why should we care if the M340i competes with it? First of all, it's in a different class being AWD and it's probably got different gearing ratios.

Another point: you drag for maybe 10 seconds. The other 23hrs, 59 minutes, and 50 seconds in the day your still just in a second banana 3 series.

I'm trying to be nice and tell you have a nice car, but you keep coming back with these ego driven replies because some weird inferiority complex with and older generation M car on its way out. It's baffling.

M performance cars were not designed to win drag races and yet...

Drag races are also a pretty standard measure of performance along with 0-60 times and quarter miles. You cant talk about performance heritage and real sports cars and ignore actual performance. This threat is hilarious.

jmg · 05-04-2020, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

The point was that the M cars weren't designed to win drag races. It's not at the school because the M cars aren't drag cars. Drag racing M cars is like doing tractor pulls. Yes, a big truck is going to pull more weight than a M3. Why should we care? M3 wasn't designed to tow. M3 wasn't designed to drag either. Why should we care if the M340i competes with it? First of all, it's in a different class being AWD and it's probably got different gearing ratios.

Another point: you drag for maybe 10 seconds. The other 23hrs, 59 minutes, and 50 seconds in the day your still just in a second banana 3 series.

I'm trying to be nice and tell you have a nice car, but you keep coming back with these ego driven replies because some weird inferiority complex with and older generation M car on its way out. It's baffling.

M performance cars were not designed to win drag races and yet...

Drag races are also a pretty standard measure of performance along with 0-60 times and quarter miles. You cant talk about performance heritage and real sports cars and ignore actual performance. This threat is hilarious.

It's a standard unit of performance, it's just not the ONLY one. It's also relatively easy for people to duplicate because it doesn't take an extraordinary amount of skill to test and replicate.

What about braking distance?
Lateral G's?
Lap times?

BTW a Dodge Demon is faster in the 1/4 than a McLaren P1. I'm pretty sure the P1 is overall the superior performance car for what I would want in a sports car-more than just going in a straight line.

jmg · 05-04-2020, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719

They are great cars, but it's clearly envy speaking when they post about their "kills". Every bro with an E90 335i back in the day was bragging about how their car "kills" the E46 M3, but they fail to see the point. The E46 M3 was a more fun car to drive and has more feel and feedback, period.

Ah yes, that totally objective feel and feedback. The safest retreat for an M3 owner.

I'll take the modern car with a killer engine.

To be honest the M340i is just to big and heavy. That's fine, take the modern car with the killer engine. Keep in mind it it's current form it's not more powerful than the outgoing M3/4. What it does have is AWD. You can also thank the previous generations of M cars for the culmination of knowledge and experience that the M340i has benefitted from.

And I'd take a E46 over an E90 335i any day.
What do you think will be said for the M340i and the F80 in 10 years?

535i MSport · 05-04-2020, 03:08 AM

Happy to take the "slow" one. 🤣

DenHaag3er · 05-04-2020, 03:11 AM

The F80 M wasn't even a good car. Didn't get the best reviews due to the engine and the famous driving feel.

So I doubt it will be looked on too fondly.

535i MSport · 05-04-2020, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

The F80 M wasn't even a good car. Didn't get the best reviews due to the engine and the famous driving feel.

So I doubt it will be looked on too fondly.

Maybe true of the vanilla M3 when it was first launched, but you need to consider the difference the competition pack made and as with the E92, the comp cars are the most desirable.

brava09 · 05-04-2020, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719

Quote:

Originally Posted by brava09

Why is that we never see M owners '"gosh, I wish I had bought that M-watered down performance car instead of my real M" ?

They are great cars, but it's clearly envy speaking when they post about their "kills". Every bro with an E90 335i back in the day was bragging about how their car "kills" the E46 M3, but they fail to see the point. The E46 M3 was a more fun car to drive and has more feel and feedback, period.

Right, I had an E92 335i, and it was a bit faster straight line than the E46 M3, but gosh anytime I met an E46 M3 I wished I had the M3.

I regretted so much the purchase of the 335i, numb and falling on its face after 5k rpm.
And to these days, which is the more desirable car between E92 335 and E46 M3? The real thing, surely.

chris719 · 05-04-2020, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

M performance cars were not designed to win drag races and yet...

Drag races are also a pretty standard measure of performance along with 0-60 times and quarter miles. You cant talk about performance heritage and real sports cars and ignore actual performance. This threat is hilarious.

You want a real performance metric? Your M340i barely beats a 13 year old and much less powerful E92 M3 around Hockenheim GP.

Somehow it gets whipped by a last generation 2 series with a detuned S55 engine and no AWD. Whew, glad we sorted out what actual performance is. BTW - the F8x M3/M4 will still trap higher in the quarter mile.

chris719 · 05-04-2020, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

The F80 M wasn't even a good car. Didn't get the best reviews due to the engine and the famous driving feel.

So I doubt it will be looked on too fondly.

That's comparing it to other M cars; it's not at all compared to a standard 3 series.

The car should aim to beat a Mercedes C43 in handling and sportiness before you start talking about actual M cars. I understand your identity is tied up in the drag race superiority of your car, but it's OK to be objective about exactly where it lies in the performance spectrum.

G444 · 05-04-2020, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719

M340i are not M cars. Unless your VIN is WBS it's not an M car. I'm sorry, it's a great car, but it's not built by M GmbH.

M GmbH does not build cars, BMW does. M GmbH develop cars and they was working also on M340i.

You can see here which cars M GmbH was working like M135i, M850i, M550d yes also desel

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/all-models.html

And if you say M340i does not have S engine, well also 1M coupe and M2 does not have S engine...

jmg · 05-04-2020, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

The F80 M wasn't even a good car. Didn't get the best reviews due to the engine and the famous driving feel.

So I doubt it will be looked on too fondly.

Gone was the hydraulic steering and the M340i suffers the same fate. I'm not sure what you heard, but the S55 is not only the most powerful M3 yet but it's also the most reliable. It doesn't sound as good, but it's pretty much well loved.

Have you even driven one?

chris719 · 05-04-2020, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G444

M GmbH does not build cars, BMW does. M GmbH develop cars and they was working also on M340i.

You can see here which cars M GmbH was working like M135i, M850i, M550d yes also desel

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/all-models.html

And if you say M340i does not have S engine, well also 1M coupe and M2 does not have S engine...

This has been covered elsewhere on the forum.

If the VIN does not start with WBS it's not an actual M car, period.

Everyone who has been here for more than 20 minutes knows these are the spiritual successors to the "is" models like 335is, despite what BMW marketing wants you to believe now.

DenHaag3er · 05-04-2020, 11:01 AM

It's not an M car. Its an M perforance car. BMW are quite clear about their range and the only people arguing its not an M car are M car fans. It is faster than an M car though which is sticking in the craw of some.

chris719 · 05-04-2020, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

It's not an M car. Its an M perforance car. BMW are quite clear about their range and the only people arguing its not an M car are M car fans. It is faster than an M car though which is sticking in the craw of some.

Maybe you should take the time to read the thread and you would see who I was responding to.

It's not even faster in all conditions than a 7 year old platform, relax man.

jmg · 05-04-2020, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

It's not an M car. Its an M perforance car. BMW are quite clear about their range and the only people arguing its not an M car are M car fans. It is faster than an M car though which is sticking in the craw of some.

Faster at what? Depreciating? Be specific.

05-04-2020, 12:31 AM	#135
brava09 Lieutenant Colonel 769 Rep 1,684 Posts Drives: M4C xdrive Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Europe iTrader: (0)	Why is that we never see M owners '"gosh, I wish I had bought that M-watered down performance car instead of my real M" ? __________________ 22 M4 Competition xdrive 19 M5 Competition sold 16 F-Type S AWD sold 11 Audi RS5 Misano Red--sold 08 E92 M3 Jerez Black 6MT--sold 08 E92 335i 6MT traded in for M3
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05-04-2020, 03:08 AM	#143
535i MSport Captain 1172 Rep 897 Posts Drives: 2017 C63S T Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: East Anglia iTrader: (0)	Happy to take the "slow" one. 🤣 Attached Images __________________ 2017 M3 Comp Pack 450PS 2017 C63S T 510PS
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05-04-2020, 03:11 AM	#144
DenHaag3er Private First Class 194 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BMW M340i Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Den Haag iTrader: (0)	The F80 M wasn't even a good car. Didn't get the best reviews due to the engine and the famous driving feel. So I doubt it will be looked on too fondly.
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05-04-2020, 11:01 AM	#152
DenHaag3er Private First Class 194 Rep 190 Posts Drives: BMW M340i Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Den Haag iTrader: (0)	It's not an M car. Its an M perforance car. BMW are quite clear about their range and the only people arguing its not an M car are M car fans. It is faster than an M car though which is sticking in the craw of some.
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