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      04-13-2019, 10:54 PM   #45
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I was very surprised how good the ZF trans was when I purchased my X5M way back, now I'm thinking about picking up a F90 but the F80 keep calling me..
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      04-15-2019, 03:05 PM   #46

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I'll have to drive the newer ZF trans cars. But my 2013 335i had the zf8 and it wasn't all that. The upshifts were quick. downshifts were slow. there was definitely a delay coming into a corner and asking for a downshift

my 2010 gtr and the 2011 m3 dct I drove had better gearboxes.

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Previous: E36 M3 | E46 M3 | R35 GTR | FR-S | F30 335i
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      04-16-2019, 09:01 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Huh? Have you driven other torque-converter autos? There are none better than the ZF for all-around smoothness and consistency in all situations. It is a great compromise between refinement, reliability, # of gears, and "sporty" driving. The M235iR race car even uses it (in a different state of tune) and I don't think anyone driving that car would complain it is slow or not sporty enough. You either don't know what you're talking about or just trolling hard. Sure, it's no DCT or manual (either of which are my preference in a real sports car), but there is no denying the vast majority of people on the public roads will be best served by the ZF 8-speed.

I first realized how good it was when cross-shopping the latest Audi A4 and Allroad a few years ago. The Allroad drove so much better with the ZF compared to the A4 with the dual-clutch.
plenty. it feels the same with fancy software. not for me, man.

they use these gearboxes because they are (A) cheap and (B) they don't break. otherwise they are total trash when it comes to driving enjoyment or sensation......

i'm not a huge fan of DCTs but DCTs feel night and day more fun than these ZF gearboxes.

Give me a 'slow' manual any day of the week. If i wanted to drive a torque converted slush box i'd get a 1980s Lincoln. Has no place in a modern performance car.

the reason these gearboxes don't matter anymore is because the vast majority (80%) of current "enthusiasts" don't care about the details. They lease cars for 3 years and then just buy another one. I come from the philosophy that you buy the most kickass car you can and KEEP THAT FOR YEARS and enjoy the hell out of it. Not these garage princesses that get paint protection and waxing for 80% of their time with their owners, don't get driven, come with all sorts of tech options but a crappy ZF gearbox----and then get sold to the next sucker who brags to people about his 0-60 'pull'. *pat on the back*
I think you're in a total minority and fall into the same bracket as the type of people who prefer "raw" cars with no traction control or drive control features.

Unfortunately the future isn't bright for you unless you choose to build your own car (as a good friend of mine did this by creating a Dax Rush with a naturally aspirated 4.8l V8).

It created an epically beautiful and insane car but the reality is it was just a toy.

ZF gearboxes have brought sports car like gear changes to the masses and bulletproof reliability. Why should BMW change this?

I understand why you'd prefer older classics for the raw experience, but focus on enjoying those rather than berating what is clearly really frigging good product in modern BMW's.

I also suggest you jump into a Citroen Cactus automatic and then tell me how bad the ZF8 feels. I had to endure one for a whole week while my car was at the workshop getting some bodywork done. It was the most horrific driving week of my life!
Current car: 2017 BMW G30 520d M-Sport, BMW F46 218d Grand Tourer
Previous cars: 1989 BMW E30 316i, 1998 BMW E36 323i Coupe M Sport, 2009 BMW E87 116d, 2013 BMW F31 320d M-Sport
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      04-16-2019, 11:02 AM   #48
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I understand the desire for an immersive driving experience. But it seems to me that some get carried away with it.

When I learned to drive a stick, and when I drove one for many years, I had no tach and no idiot light telling me when to shift. I had to do it by sound and feel. And rev matching...what the heck was that (i.e., it didn't exist back then).

So for a truly immersive experience, ditch the stick shift extras and go back to the true driving experience.
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      04-16-2019, 11:56 PM   #49
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I'm all for ZF if they provide this transmission for M cars like they do for Porsche.

We don't need torque converters that can barely rev over 7k.

Pass me if you can.
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