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      03-10-2020, 09:02 AM   #353
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If the hood line is all about easier production line assembly to save money, then why do the cheaper 3er model variants have no hood line, and the most expensive premium model have the fugly design?

Contrast this to Mercedes-AMG who market their top-end cars on the basis that every engine is lovingly assembled by a single highly trained engineer who signs a numbered plaque in the engine compartment.

What does this tell us about the philosophies of the two companies?

Also, MB are putting in DCTs, and BMW are taking them out.

For current generation cars, the F82 with M-DCT is still streets ahead of equivalent AMG from a driver engagement perspective, but I'm not sure I expect that to continue much longer (since next generation they will both be heavy GT cars). On the design and technology front, BMW are already behind imho.
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      03-10-2020, 09:15 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuffinFlavored View Post
A friend of mine is *mildly* good at Photoshop/graphic design. For shits and giggles, I asked her to take a crack at making the G80 look not terrible. I agree that the kidney grille is not similar to the traditional "BMW" look, but I think if we went to Shark Tank right now asking for $1m for a 10% stake in our "save the G80 M3 front fender" business, there would be a bloodbath over the competition to invest.
No amount of photoshop can save this car. They will ram it down our throats as is.
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      03-10-2020, 09:45 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by E36 PWR View Post
Here you go BMW. See how easy that was?

I would buy two of these. Take all my money.
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      03-10-2020, 10:26 AM   #356
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Who wore it better?
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      03-10-2020, 11:45 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
If the hood line is all about easier production line assembly to save money, then why do the cheaper 3er model variants have no hood line, and the most expensive premium model have the fugly design?

Contrast this to Mercedes-AMG who market their top-end cars on the basis that every engine is lovingly assembled by a single highly trained engineer who signs a numbered plaque in the engine compartment.

What does this tell us about the philosophies of the two companies?

Also, MB are putting in DCTs, and BMW are taking them out.

For current generation cars, the F82 with M-DCT is still streets ahead of equivalent AMG from a driver engagement perspective, but I'm not sure I expect that to continue much longer (since next generation they will both be heavy GT cars). On the design and technology front, BMW are already behind imho.
It's a mixture of elements pedestrian safety is one of those. The penultimate being production costs and application and impact legislation.
Another overlooked but significant is that in a low end shunt the nose cone absorbs the impact without damaging the hood itself. Therefore for insurance purposes costs will Be lower for initial repairs.
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      03-10-2020, 12:09 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
If the hood line is all about easier production line assembly to save money, then why do the cheaper 3er model variants have no hood line, and the most expensive premium model have the fugly design?

Contrast this to Mercedes-AMG who market their top-end cars on the basis that every engine is lovingly assembled by a single highly trained engineer who signs a numbered plaque in the engine compartment.

What does this tell us about the philosophies of the two companies?

Also, MB are putting in DCTs, and BMW are taking them out.

For current generation cars, the F82 with M-DCT is still streets ahead of equivalent AMG from a driver engagement perspective, but I'm not sure I expect that to continue much longer (since next generation they will both be heavy GT cars). On the design and technology front, BMW are already behind imho.
It's a mixture of elements pedestrian safety is one of those. The penultimate being production costs and application and impact legislation.
Another overlooked but significant is that in a low end shunt the nose cone absorbs the impact without damaging the hood itself. Therefore for insurance purposes costs will Be lower for initial repairs.
That does not explain why some new BMW's don't continue to have this (F90/G30 and G20 etc...)

It's the lack of consistency that bothers me with this infamous hood line.
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      03-10-2020, 01:04 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It's a mixture of elements pedestrian safety is one of those. The penultimate being production costs and application and impact legislation.
Is mostly the cost. I have visited a factory that is producing elements for different manufacturers and I will say is about cost.
I also compared the inner components between different German brands front bumpers and there is no difference in materials or approach in terms of front bumper. The others that use a long bonnet are also in conformity with pedestrian legislation. Audi decided to keep the long bonnet for design purposes and respect the required legislation by giving it the proper angles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Another overlooked but significant is that in a low end shunt the nose cone absorbs the impact without damaging the hood itself. Therefore for insurance purposes costs will Be lower for initial repairs.
- A proper design is usually made to "channel" the impact forces towards lateral so the bumper pops out on smaller impacts. Actually, the distribution of forces in key points is far more important. On bigger impacts, no plastic bumper will help the hood or the pedestrian.
- No manufacturer cares about insurance costs and that was never a point in their design.
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      03-10-2020, 02:04 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Kuato2084 View Post
I would buy two of these. Take all my money.
Now this front end looks aggressive. Love it.
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      03-10-2020, 02:38 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
- No manufacturer cares about insurance costs and that was never a point in their design.
Disclaimer: not an SME in vehicle manufacturing/design... but I thought the reason the 992 went with "faux" exhaust tips was to reduce cost of repair in the case of a low speed rear end collision. I remember that being brought up a few times when it was released. Whether that is marketing speak or what I'm not sure.
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      03-10-2020, 03:39 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Disclaimer: not an SME in vehicle manufacturing/design... but I thought the reason the 992 went with "faux" exhaust tips was to reduce cost of repair in the case of a low speed rear end collision. I remember that being brought up a few times when it was released. Whether that is marketing speak or what I'm not sure.
I am not going to argue about it, but I will not buy it.

There are a multitude of points that needs to be met before I will consider manufacturer's sincere care about my wallet.

The exhaust is also taken in consideration when they design (especially a sport vehicle). Materials used and engineering requirements (volume of gases to be pushed out determines the diameter/length) which determines the material and weight, where the catalytic converter is positioned, vehicle's weight distribution, sound that needs to be achieved, etc.

For example,
- For a diesel was better to have a pipe oriented not horizontal but towards the ground to "smash" the gases on the ground in order to disperse them. Some say it was just away to hide the pollution, while others came with graphics showing that this works, especially for the vehicles behind. Todays diesel though are really clean.
- In some cases the exhaust was down because the particles will land on the vehicle, or the vehicle design was too prone in accepting gases inside (some vans, big open door hatches, etc), which were dangerous for the passengers. For this reason the pipe will be directed somewhere on the side of the vehicle.
- In other cases, a rear engine vehicle must breath and that fresh air should not be influenced by the exhaust.
- Some do it just for costs only, as a metal chrome tip is more money than a chrome plastic fake round that comes preinstalled in the bumper. Or just because it looks premium with no effort.
- And in some cases, you will be amazed how much money a company saves by not using so much material.

I don't know: Porsche is the company that charges me for a chrome ring on the dashboard and suddenly cares about my collision cost? I rather believe that they designed it to protect something that can do more damage if pushed forward in an accident.
But that's my 2 cents.
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      03-10-2020, 04:35 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
If the hood line is all about easier production line assembly to save money, then why do the cheaper 3er model variants have no hood line, and the most expensive premium model have the fugly design?

Contrast this to Mercedes-AMG who market their top-end cars on the basis that every engine is lovingly assembled by a single highly trained engineer who signs a numbered plaque in the engine compartment.

What does this tell us about the philosophies of the two companies?

Also, MB are putting in DCTs, and BMW are taking them out.

For current generation cars, the F82 with M-DCT is still streets ahead of equivalent AMG from a driver engagement perspective, but I'm not sure I expect that to continue much longer (since next generation they will both be heavy GT cars). On the design and technology front, BMW are already behind imho.
It's a mixture of elements pedestrian safety is one of those. The penultimate being production costs and application and impact legislation.
Another overlooked but significant is that in a low end shunt the nose cone absorbs the impact without damaging the hood itself. Therefore for insurance purposes costs will Be lower for initial repairs.
Unfortunately that's just more evidence that it's the accountants running the company not the designers and engineers. Sad shift from the way things used to be and it's starting to show more and more.
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      03-10-2020, 08:05 PM   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Another overlooked but significant is that in a low end shunt the nose cone absorbs the impact without damaging the hood itself. Therefore for insurance purposes costs will Be lower for initial repairs.
Well,... given the huge M-taxes on almost every other aspect of these cars, I'd personally prefer that BMW's designers chose not to prioritize reducing my hypothetical (not even once in 44 years) insurance claim over producing a car that looks beautiful and seamless.

I loved that I got a carbon-fiber driveshaft in my F82. I love that there are loads of places where engineers threw money at performance and weight saving to make the best car they could. But why cheap out on design of the premium model? (where customers are likely much less price sensitive).

So, to make the logic clear, people who bought the base G20 models get a hood without a line, but they should also expect more expensive insurance claims?


Last edited by pbar; 03-10-2020 at 08:11 PM..
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      03-10-2020, 11:29 PM   #365
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I'm fully on board with this look. Sign me up!
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      03-10-2020, 11:45 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E36 PWR View Post
Here you go BMW. See how easy that was?

Nicely done!
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      03-11-2020, 04:46 AM   #367
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Sorry, I really like that look.

Very fresh.

Same as when Audi came with the big grill.
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      03-11-2020, 06:41 AM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
I am not going to argue about it, but I will not buy it.

There are a multitude of points that needs to be met before I will consider manufacturer's sincere care about my wallet.

The exhaust is also taken in consideration when they design (especially a sport vehicle). Materials used and engineering requirements (volume of gases to be pushed out determines the diameter/length) which determines the material and weight, where the catalytic converter is positioned, vehicle's weight distribution, sound that needs to be achieved, etc.

For example,
- For a diesel was better to have a pipe oriented not horizontal but towards the ground to "smash" the gases on the ground in order to disperse them. Some say it was just away to hide the pollution, while others came with graphics showing that this works, especially for the vehicles behind. Todays diesel though are really clean.
- In some cases the exhaust was down because the particles will land on the vehicle, or the vehicle design was too prone in accepting gases inside (some vans, big open door hatches, etc), which were dangerous for the passengers. For this reason the pipe will be directed somewhere on the side of the vehicle.
- In other cases, a rear engine vehicle must breath and that fresh air should not be influenced by the exhaust.
- Some do it just for costs only, as a metal chrome tip is more money than a chrome plastic fake round that comes preinstalled in the bumper. Or just because it looks premium with no effort.
- And in some cases, you will be amazed how much money a company saves by not using so much material.

I don't know: Porsche is the company that charges me for a chrome ring on the dashboard and suddenly cares about my collision cost? I rather believe that they designed it to protect something that can do more damage if pushed forward in an accident.
But that's my 2 cents.
I appreciate your insight; thanks for responding!
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      03-11-2020, 12:03 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E36 PWR View Post
Here you go BMW. See how easy that was?

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      03-12-2020, 10:33 AM   #370
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Hopefully the aftermarket will filter out some of the ugly. A few small tweaks and it doesn't look that bad (excuse the shit MS paint attempt at visualizing what could be with a little help from the gents at IND).
That looks even worse. I like the extended vertical grills, reminds me of old school like 20s 30s European roadsters.
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      03-12-2020, 12:07 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
That's an M8.
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      03-12-2020, 01:47 PM   #372
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Why not do Lexus - predator grill. Ridiculous.
X3M for me as I voted under poll thread.
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      03-12-2020, 01:50 PM   #373
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Good one

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      03-28-2020, 01:21 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBob0047 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_can_count View Post
Hopefully the aftermarket will filter out some of the ugly. A few small tweaks and it doesn't look that bad (excuse the shit MS paint attempt at visualizing what could be with a little help from the gents at IND).
That looks even worse. I like the extended vertical grills, reminds me of old school like 20s 30s European roadsters.
You bring up a good point but those grills were a lot more proportioned. This is just... janky. Now, what if they rounded the corners and made them ever so slightly narrower?
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