[Portimao Blue M440ix]

Hello all. I am the proud new to me owner of a 2022 M440ix coupe. The car is sadly in storage till May before it comes out to play.

On the couple times I did get to drive it I noticed the oil temperature to warm up very very quick in comparison to my 2007 335i coupe. My 335i takes for ever for the oil to warm up compared to the M440i.

Is the difference just due to advances in technology since 2007 or are the temperature sensors in a different location on each car which is why the big difference in warm up times.

[TheKandyman]

Active shutters staying closed will allow the engine to get to operating temperature up faster.

[Portimao Blue M440ix]

Thanks @[TheKandyman] I guess the old 335i doesn't have those.

[cyam]

Ha ha ha - active shutters. That's funny!!! Sorry dude - that is truly laughable!

The ONLY reason for active shutters is to lower wind resistance at high speed. As all that air flowing through the front of the car is not needed and causes a lot of resistance, so having active shutters these can be closed when its not needed.

From the year dot all cars have had a thermostat that bypassed the entire radiator until the car warms up. Meaning NO FLOW THROUGH the radiator until the car warms up. So shutters open or closed would make ZERO difference. Nowadays they don't use an old fashioned thermostat, but same principle. So active shutters have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with helping the car warm up faster.

But yes BMW have done a great job and getting the oil to warm up quickly in this engine. Really impressive technology this car/engine is.

Of course the more important oil to ensure is warmed up before driving hard is the gearbox. But that would be warm enough within a few minutes of normal driving AFTER the engine oil temp reaches its 105 degrees C.

[AP]

Sure you have a oil temperature gauge rather than a coolant gauge?

Coolant is quite quick to warm up but in my car it takes a good -15 mins to get oil close to 100c , more like 20 mins if it’s particularly cold

[Portimao Blue M440ix]

@[cyam] thanks for the reply. I always let the oil come to full temperature before spirited driving. It is quite the engine.

[Portimao Blue M440ix]

@[AP] the car has both. The oil temperature is found in the sport dials.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by cyam

Ha ha ha - active shutters. That's funny!!! Sorry dude - that is truly laughable!

Why do you think reducing airflow wouldn't cause the car to warm up faster?

It does reduce drag at higher speeds, but it also stays closed at low speed until vehicle warms up.

[cyam]

"DanB" - Because no water is flowing through the radiator as that is bypassed when it's cold, so shutters open or close make no difference because the radiator is bypassed.

This has been done in cars for more than 60 years.

[cyam]

Originally Posted by AP

Sure you have a oil temperature gauge rather than a coolant gauge?

Coolant is quite quick to warm up but in my car it takes a good -15 mins to get oil close to 100c , more like 20 mins if it’s particularly cold

On the main dash, that is water temp, but on sports dials there is oil temp.

I also have a P3 gauge which shows me everything. I start the car and have that gauge set to oil temp. When that gets to over 100c, I switch it to turbo boost and use it as a permanent boost gauge. Love it.

Essentially on this B58, the oil temp gets to its required 105degrees C very quickly - only a minute or two after water temp has reached operating temp of around 90degrees C.

[AP]

Wow . I’m comparing to the v8 in my 550 which takes 15-20 mins to get to ~100C

There is 10.5 litres of oil in this thing which may go some way to acccount for that possibly

Coolant though warms up quickly as does the interior

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by cyam

"DanB" - Because no water is flowing through the radiator as that is bypassed when it's cold, so shutters open or close make no difference because the radiator is bypassed.

This has been done in cars for more than 60 years.

As u said modern cars have been using thermostat to close and open coolant flow of the engine block for quick some years, so what is the new technology that allows G-series engines to warm up so much faster than E/F-series ones?

BMW's explanation of the active shutter is as follows, it appears BMW does say that the shutter is used to regulate cooling of the radiator, in addition to reduce to air drag at high speed.

"Functional description
The engine control system continuously calculates the required cooling. The engine control system only opens the radiator shutter when a higher level of cooling air is actually required.

The air flow through the radiator creates high aerodynamic drag as the driving speed increases. In higher road speed ranges, the closed radiator shutter improves the aerodynamics. As a result, the energy consumption is reduced while driving.

The air flap control of the 3rd generation evaluates more temperature thresholds for a more accurate control. These are among others the temperature values of the coolant, air conditioning condenser, catalytic converter and charge air. Additional important control variables are the driving speed and the temperature of the brake discs.

If cooling air is required, the lower flaps are opened first. During this angle settings of 15° to 30° can already be sufficient. The upper flaps only open if there is a maximum cooling air requirement."

[billnchristy]

One little trick Toyota did on the Prius which I think was brilliant, was a small water jacket on the exhaust and on cold start, the coolant would flow around the exhaust and get pre-heated faster.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

One little trick Toyota did on the Prius which I think was brilliant, was a small water jacket on the exhaust and on cold start, the coolant would flow around the exhaust and get pre-heated faster.

I found a reference to B58(or B engine in general?) engine encapsulation tech that keeps engine heat for up to 36 hours.

https://bimmerly.com/b58-heat-encapsulation/

Also, I remember reading a forum post that mentions split engine head from the block in the B engines also helps to speedup the warmup.

[cyam]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

As u said modern cars have been using thermostat to close and open coolant flow of the engine block for quick some years, so what is the new technology that allows G-series engines to warm up so much faster than E/F-series ones?

BMW's explanation of the active shutter is as follows, it appears BMW does say that the shutter is used to regulate cooling of the radiator, in addition to reduce to air drag at high speed.

"Functional description
The engine control system continuously calculates the required cooling. The engine control system only opens the radiator shutter when a higher level of cooling air is actually required.

The air flow through the radiator creates high aerodynamic drag as the driving speed increases. In higher road speed ranges, the closed radiator shutter improves the aerodynamics. As a result, the energy consumption is reduced while driving.

The air flap control of the 3rd generation evaluates more temperature thresholds for a more accurate control. These are among others the temperature values of the coolant, air conditioning condenser, catalytic converter and charge air. Additional important control variables are the driving speed and the temperature of the brake discs.

If cooling air is required, the lower flaps are opened first. During this angle settings of 15° to 30° can already be sufficient. The upper flaps only open if there is a maximum cooling air requirement."

Yes, exactly what I said.
The temp control of the shutters they refer to is only after the engine is at OPERATING TEMP. Then if the air flow through the radiator is not needed, the shutters can be closed for efficiency.

But when engine is cold, the shutters DO NOT control the engine warm up speed.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by cyam

Yes, exactly what I said.
The temp control of the shutters they refer to is only after the engine is at OPERATING TEMP. Then if the air flow through the radiator is not needed, the shutters can be closed for efficiency.

But when engine is cold, the shutters DO NOT control the engine warm up speed.

Ok then it looks like engine encapsulation and possibly split engine head can be contributors of speeding up engine warmup.

You mentioned there is improvement in coolant bypass too, is there any reference to describe the differences between the B engines and previous-gen engines?

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by cyam

"DanB" - Because no water is flowing through the radiator as that is bypassed when it's cold, so shutters open or close make no difference because the radiator is bypassed.

This has been done in cars for more than 60 years.

I think you are forgetting, when the shutters are closed there is less air flow through the engine bay. This will cause the car to warm up faster.

[cyam]

Originally Posted by Dan B

I think you are forgetting, when the shutters are closed there is less air flow through the engine bay. This will cause the car to warm up faster.

That would make a practically immeasurable difference.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by cyam

That would make a practically immeasurable difference.

BMW lists it as one of the reasons they have them. I will go with their engineers assessment.

[cyam]

Originally Posted by Dan B

BMW lists it as one of the reasons they have them. I will go with their engineers assessment.

Yes, AFTER THE CAR REACHES OPERATING TEMP

We are talking here about getting the engine up to temp from cold. In that short period of time, the shutters are of no consequence to quickly warm up the engine.

AFTER that, YES, the shutters are used when cooling is not needed from excessive air coming into the radiators. Again the reason is to reduce air resistance, but then it needs to monitor temps to ensure they don't get too high and then open the shutters when that additional cooling is needed.

When the engine is cold the engine coolant radiators are bypassed (for just those few minutes until the engine reaches operating temp). So whether the shutters are open or not in the WARM UP stage, cannot make a difference to getting the engine coolant and oil from cold to operating temp quickly.

Why is this so difficult to understand.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by cyam

Yes, AFTER THE CAR REACHES OPERATING TEMP

We are talking here about getting the engine up to temp from cold. In that short period of time, the shutters are of no consequence to quickly warm up the engine.

AFTER that, YES, the shutters are used when cooling is not needed from excessive air coming into the radiators. Again the reason is to reduce air resistance, but then it needs to monitor temps to ensure they don't get too high and then open the shutters when that additional cooling is needed.

When the engine is cold the engine coolant radiators are bypassed (for just those few minutes until the engine reaches operating temp). So whether the shutters are open or not in the WARM UP stage, cannot make a difference to getting the engine coolant and oil from cold to operating temp quickly.

Why is this so difficult to understand.

When you are driving, during the warm up phase, you don't think open shutters allow for more airflow through the engine bay?

It is simple physics. It you have a warm object, pass cooler air over it, the object will cool. So with the shutters open and more airflow into the engine compartment, it will increase cooling. Conversely, less airflow will reduce cooling.

I will allow for the possibility that due to how BMW engineered the car, maybe there is no difference in airflow with the shutters open or closed. So I will do some research, and try to find documentation on this.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by cyam

Yes, AFTER THE CAR REACHES OPERATING TEMP

BMW states that "The engine control system continuously calculates the required cooling", I doubt that is done only after the car reaches operating temp.

Also, coolant bypass is old tech(and u said the same), and E/F-series cars have coolant bypass too, so that by itself can't explain the drastic improvement of engine warmup going from E/F-series to G-series.

Air movement should have measurable cooling capacity(dependent on speed) even during warmup, so I think a closed shutter can be another contributor to reduced engine warmup time for G-series. I do think a major contributor likely is the engine encapsulation feature.