[jamesh]

I want to sincerely thank Ynguldyn for sharing this information as it committed me to ordering the new 330 now. I do not have any prejudices against Mexicans, but am insistent that my 330 comes from the German plant.

It is not a problem with BMW's Mexican plant itself, but rather that all North American assembled cars obtain a lot of their supplies from North American suppliers, including Mexico. Unfortunately, the parts quality are noticeably and consistently inferior to the European supplied German plants. Perhaps it is due to cultural differences, but North America just doesn't have the culture of attention to detail like the Europeans or Japanese.

I do not think we need to sanitize this forum to be so politically correct that we ignore practical reality. The reality is that production location has a direct impact on the final product quality. Case in point, when the W205 C class began production in Alabama, they experienced a period where their MB Tex vinyl supplier supplied a problematic product that oozed white gel during cold temperatures. None of the German or South African produced cars had this issue as their supplies came from a European supplier.

Moreover, if there was really no difference in production quality between plants and their respective locations, then J.D. Power's plant quality surveys would not even be needed. All of the top awards have been given to Japanese and European plants, and within these, I am including South African plants as they are often supplied with European parts.

So again, thank you Ynguldyn, for providing useful and honest information in the face of these biting commenters. They can happily snap up the Mexican supplied 3 series that none of the rest of us want.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Perhaps the more interesting finding here is the cynical response when offered the opportunity to give an honest, anonymous reaction. I’m seeing this topic is provoking much anxiety. That’s ok. We can move on.

Would it be cynical to be aware of the build quality of Z3s? Of the E90s coming from Rosslyn?

[jamesh]

I was working for BMW during that generation and know very well what you're referring to :P

[praxis218]

Originally Posted by jamesh

I want to sincerely thank Ynguldyn for sharing this information as it committed me to ordering the new 330 now. I do not have any prejudices against Mexicans, but am insistent that my 330 comes from the German plant.

It is not a problem with BMW's Mexican plant itself, but rather that all North American assembled cars obtain a lot of their supplies from North American suppliers, including Mexico. Unfortunately, the parts quality are noticeably and consistently inferior to the European supplied German plants. Perhaps it is due to cultural differences, but North America just doesn't have the culture of attention to detail like the Europeans or Japanese.

I do not think we need to sanitize this forum to be so politically correct that we ignore practical reality. The reality is that production location has a direct impact on the final product quality. Case in point, when the W205 C class began production in Alabama, they experienced a period where their MB Tex vinyl supplier supplied a problematic product that oozed white gel during cold temperatures. None of the German or South African produced cars had this issue as their supplies came from a European supplier.

Moreover, if there was really no difference in production quality between plants and their respective locations, then J.D. Power's plant quality surveys would not even be needed. All of the top awards have been given to Japanese and European plants, and within these, I am including South African plants as they are often supplied with European parts.

So again, thank you Ynguldyn, for providing useful and honest information in the face of these biting commenters. They can happily snap up the Mexican supplied 3 series that none of the rest of us want.

My German built E90 had tons of weird issues, whereas my current South African built F30 has no issues

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by praxis218

My German built E90 had tons of weird issues, whereas my current South African built F30 has no issues

Rosslyn is one of the best BMW plants now. Just like Spartanburg is.

The key word being "now".

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Would it be cynical to be aware of the build quality of Z3s? Of the E90s coming from Rosslyn?

If my earlier writing was insufficiently clear, the "cynicism" was describing the response to me asking a typically-structured research question and some erroneously assuming I was being sarcastic or a troll. I took no public position on the issue of final assembly geography in this thread, but was attempting to understand the reasons behind a strongly-worded conclusory statement.

FYI, having spent 2.5 decades inside another vehicle manufacturer, I know that the industry has multiple examples that demonstrate that the location of the plant away from the home engineering office has no correlation with the quality of the plant's production. There is variation among plants for different reasons, but it is not directly attributable to home plant versus not home plant nor the background of the operators on the line. Perhaps, most notable, was a prior finding that Marysville, Ohio produced Accords with fewer defects than those coming from Japan and MB C Class vehicles produced in South Africa were less likely to have conditions than those from Bremen.

As part of a company that had plants in the US and Mexico, there was also clear data regarding the excellent production quality from the Mexican plants.

The issue with local supply base is real, and MB had a serious problem with a local US supplier for MBTex, as noted earlier. However, suppliers across the globe have had occasional issues with making undocumented/unapproved changes, or insufficiently validating an approved change. MB got that situation under control and resolved it, just as well as if it had happened anywhere else.

I have no concern planning to buy a new 3 (or in my case, eventual 4 GC), wherever BMW decides to build it.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

If my earlier writing was insufficiently clear, the "cynicism" was describing the response to me asking a typically-structured research question and some erroneously assuming I was being sarcastic or a troll. I took no public position on the issue of final assembly geography in this thread, but was attempting to understand the reasons behind a strongly-worded conclusory statement.

FYI, having spent 2.5 decades inside another vehicle manufacturer, I know that the industry has multiple examples that demonstrate that the location of the plant away from the home engineering office has no correlation with the quality of the plant's production. There is variation among plants for different reasons, but it is not directly attributable to home plant versus not home plant nor the background of the operators on the line. Perhaps, most notable, was a prior finding that Marysville, Ohio produced Accords with fewer defects than those coming from Japan and MB C Class vehicles produced in South Africa were less likely to have conditions than those from Bremen.

As part of a company that had plants in the US and Mexico, there was also clear data regarding the excellent production quality from the Mexican plants.

The issue with local supply base is real, and MB had a serious problem with a local US supplier for MBTex, as noted earlier. However, suppliers across the globe have had occasional issues with making undocumented/unapproved changes, or insufficiently validating an approved change. MB got that situation under control and resolved it, just as well as if it had happened anywhere else.

I have no concern planning to buy a new 3 (or in my case, eventual 4 GC), wherever BMW decides to build it.

I haven't read past the first paragraph, but want to quote the whole thing anyway, because talking so much about the details only you care about probably means something about the job you have.

While in reality most people couldn't care less about the root cause, they just want to avoid a problem.

[MT4life]

I don't care. I just want a German car made in Germany, Swiss watch made in Switzerland, Alden or Allen Edmonds shoes made in USA, Samsung TV made in Korea, an eggroll made by Chinese people and a taco made by Mexican chef. I don't want a taco made by Germans either. Boom!

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by MT4life

I don't care. I just want a German car made in Germany, Swiss watch made in Switzerland, Alden or Allen Edmonds shoes made in USA, Samsung TV made in Korea, an eggroll made by Chinese people and a taco made by Mexican chef. I don't want a taco made by Germans either. Boom!

On the other hand, Americans are currently kicking Germans' asses in the quality of German style beers.

[MT4life]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

On the other hand, Americans are currently kicking Germans' asses in the quality of German style beers.

True true

[walile]

For people indifferent with whether the car is Mexico or German built, will you hesitate buying a BMW that's made in China and imported into the US?

[MT4life]

Originally Posted by walile

For people indifferent with whether the car is Mexico or German built, will you hesitate buying a BMW that's made in China and imported into the US?

There's too much garbage we're forced to buy in this country that's made in China. I'm never buying a car made there. It's already bad enough that some components are made there, probably the ones that break the most

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by walile

For people indifferent with whether the car is Mexico or German built, will you hesitate buying a BMW that's made in China and imported into the US?

No hesitation. The building doesn't know where it is. The assembly process, operator behaviors on the line, and component supply base would be in conformance to BMW standards. The historical perception with Chinese goods had been intentionally low-cost/quality-unimportant business models. That is no longer the uniform case in China and BMW (among many other OEMs and other industries) understands that and are taking significant production positions in China. (How well is your iPhone assembled?) When I was managing one carline for a US company in the early 2000s, we sourced wheels in China and based on the ISO9001 certified supplier we chose at that time, quality was managed to excellence.

BTW, the same was once said about Korea. Check the build quality on a new Genesis. Also, note that the prior head of BMW M Engineering (Albert Biermann) is now head of R&D for Hyundai (breaking news today). I think we need to understand the developing global economy will change our available choices in the current and future marketplace and we need to readjust old ways of thinking.