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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Genesis G70?

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      03-22-2019, 08:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Frank_NJ View Post
The car is pricier, but after 5 years the Hyundia will be worth about $5k where as the BMW at least in the mid $35K.
That’s funny cause I see 5 year old 3 series are less than $15k.
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      03-22-2019, 10:55 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Frank_NJ View Post
The car is pricier, but after 5 years the Hyundia will be worth about $5k where as the BMW at least in the mid $35K.
I don't think BMW (or any german car for that matter) is really known for their resale value, those numbers are a bit optomistic. Genesis' resale has been completely bad since they separated from Hyundai, but still its not like the BMW's will likely be that much better.
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      03-23-2019, 02:31 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Frank_NJ View Post
The car is pricier, but after 5 years the Hyundia will be worth about $5k where as the BMW at least in the mid $35K.

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Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
That's good to hear. I mean, the g70 is a compelling case. If it's as good as the reviews to date suggest, it means genesis is closing the performance gap just as bmw is further increasing the price of the 3 series with the g20. I saw a 330i in a showroom recently that had an msrp of over 60k. Of course a bmw is going to be pricier than a Hyundai, but >60k is a bit much for a 3 series powered by a 4-pot.
I doubt a 330i will be worth 35k in 5 years (after adjusting for inflation). Even a well appointed G20 is going to depreciate quite a bit in 5 years. By then there will be an LCI model available too. Do you know anyone who would pay 35k now for a 2014 328i?
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      03-23-2019, 03:08 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by RichG330i View Post
I drove the G70 with the manual (RWD only) and also the 8 speed auto (both 4 cylinder). I really wanted to like the manual but it had long throwsa and was a bit notchy. The performance on the auto 4 cyl was just "meh".
In my mind the G70 is all about the 360+ hp, 3.3L TT V6. I don't want a luxury sport sedan with a turbo 4. It just isn't special enough for me at that point. I realize that there are those who disagree with this and find the 4 cylinder engines perfectly adequate. To each their own.
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      03-23-2019, 03:32 PM   #49
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Lol after working at Hyundai for 2 years.. and seeing the constant mechanical problems and recalls and techs complaining..... I'll stay away from that brand .. all I can say
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      03-23-2019, 06:51 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Weiner0123 View Post
Lol after working at Hyundai for 2 years.. and seeing the constant mechanical problems and recalls and techs complaining..... I'll stay away from that brand .. all I can say
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      03-23-2019, 10:18 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
The voice of reason!
+1

When BMW starts treating Genesis as a benchmark then call me impressed. Look at the ads or reviews - they’re mostly sizing themselves up to one of the big 3 German manufacturers.

Granted Genesis is in a better position than Infiniti. Hopefully they don’t fall down the same hole. Because competition is good for us consumers!
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      03-31-2019, 02:26 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly View Post
Doug Demuro thinks the G70 handles better than the G20. Time to jump ship people.
He can think whatever he wants. I enjoy Demuro's reviews but don't necessarily agree with everything he says.

Korean cars are cheap facsímiles of the real article. They sell you the "equivalent" for cheaper because compromises have been made where you don't see them or feel them. That's the scary aspect of Korean car ownership. You don't know what you don't know. There is no free lunch or free ride. With Korea motors inc, you get exactly what you pay for and the crappy dealer service experience that is sure to follow.

Speaking for myself only, I would never stamp my own signature for anything that doesn't have the roundel or 3 pointed star emblem on the hood.
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      03-31-2019, 07:36 PM   #53
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I'm likely going to be getting an M340i and won't buy a Genesis G70, but I have driven one for an extensive test drive and I must say, its an excellent car. Now, dealership experience, in car technology and designs/materials do lack behind BMW and Mercedes, but the G70 really is an excellent value, so many things are standard on this car, and you can easily get a loaded 3.3TT V6 model ($53k) for 330i money, and granted some materials may not be as nice, but for that price I can't see a reason to complain, and the 10 year/100k mile warranty is something I'm sure any german car owner would appreciate.

Now, do I think the Genesis handles better than the new 3 series? I don't know, I haven't driven the 330i as I'm really only holding out for the M340i, to compare Apples to Apples, but the G70 does handle better than the Audi S4/5, and 2018 F30 340i I drove, and is more comfortable than the fun but firm C43 I drove. The G70's steering is I think where BMW will have to work its hardest, the steering in the G70 is very good, so I hope BMW will make strides there.

One thing to realize is that this isn't the early 2000s where really, BMW was the only good car in the segment (A4 was too fwd, C Class was too soft, a Cadillac competitor didn't exist, and Jag was too ugly, the 3 series was the only good compact luxury car in the 2000s, really only the G35/37 was close in handling, but not as pretty or expensive feeling) now, Mercedes, Audi, Jag and even Cadillac are catching up and closing the gap from what use to be an easy choice.

I love BMW, but we have to admit that cars today are getting even better and better, and even underdog brands like Genesis can create a great product. They may not be up to some of our standards, but its hard to deny with countless reviews and awards praising Genesis that they don't have something really good on their hands, not to mention that they have staffed engineers from German car brands, and Hyundai even has the ex-M division boss.

Time will of course tell what will happen to Genesis, and it may not sell in large numbers like its German and Japanese (Lexus) competitors, but I do think they have made a great car, one that I would easily recommend to someone.
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      04-04-2019, 09:02 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I'm likely going to be getting an M340i and won't buy a Genesis G70, but I have driven one for an extensive test drive and I must say, its an excellent car. Now, dealership experience, in car technology and designs/materials do lack behind BMW and Mercedes, but the G70 really is an excellent value, so many things are standard on this car, and you can easily get a loaded 3.3TT V6 model ($53k) for 330i money, and granted some materials may not be as nice, but for that price I can't see a reason to complain, and the 10 year/100k mile warranty is something I'm sure any german car owner would appreciate.

Now, do I think the Genesis handles better than the new 3 series? I don't know, I haven't driven the 330i as I'm really only holding out for the M340i, to compare Apples to Apples, but the G70 does handle better than the Audi S4/5, and 2018 F30 340i I drove, and is more comfortable than the fun but firm C43 I drove. The G70's steering is I think where BMW will have to work its hardest, the steering in the G70 is very good, so I hope BMW will make strides there.

One thing to realize is that this isn't the early 2000s where really, BMW was the only good car in the segment (A4 was too fwd, C Class was too soft, a Cadillac competitor didn't exist, and Jag was too ugly, the 3 series was the only good compact luxury car in the 2000s, really only the G35/37 was close in handling, but not as pretty or expensive feeling) now, Mercedes, Audi, Jag and even Cadillac are catching up and closing the gap from what use to be an easy choice.

I love BMW, but we have to admit that cars today are getting even better and better, and even underdog brands like Genesis can create a great product. They may not be up to some of our standards, but its hard to deny with countless reviews and awards praising Genesis that they don't have something really good on their hands, not to mention that they have staffed engineers from German car brands, and Hyundai even has the ex-M division boss.

Time will of course tell what will happen to Genesis, and it may not sell in large numbers like its German and Japanese (Lexus) competitors, but I do think they have made a great car, one that I would easily recommend to someone.
Just bought a 3.3T G70. I agree with everything you say with the exception of the interior which is certainly better than my F30 335i, including the Lexicon sound system. I've had two 3 series and both through European Delivery. I enjoyed the F30 and my E90 but I'm glad I got the G70. The steering is much better as just about every review says.
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      04-04-2019, 09:05 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by martyl View Post
Just bought a 3.3T G70. I agree with everything you say with the exception of the interior which is certainly better than my F30 335i, including the Lexicon sound system. I've had two 3 series and both through European Delivery. I enjoyed the F30 and my E90 but I'm glad I got the G70. The steering is much better as just about every review says.
Congrats, I have to admit myself that the G70 has grown on me, and the wife, who wants a car that feels like her old E90, we're going to compare it against the new M340i when it arrives. Got any pics of your new G70?
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      04-04-2019, 09:20 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I'm likely going to be getting an M340i and won't buy a Genesis G70, but I have driven one for an extensive test drive and I must say, its an excellent car. Now, dealership experience, in car technology and designs/materials do lack behind BMW and Mercedes, but the G70 really is an excellent value, so many things are standard on this car, and you can easily get a loaded 3.3TT V6 model ($53k) for 330i money, and granted some materials may not be as nice, but for that price I can't see a reason to complain, and the 10 year/100k mile warranty is something I'm sure any german car owner would appreciate.

Now, do I think the Genesis handles better than the new 3 series? I don't know, I haven't driven the 330i as I'm really only holding out for the M340i, to compare Apples to Apples, but the G70 does handle better than the Audi S4/5, and 2018 F30 340i I drove, and is more comfortable than the fun but firm C43 I drove. The G70's steering is I think where BMW will have to work its hardest, the steering in the G70 is very good, so I hope BMW will make strides there.

One thing to realize is that this isn't the early 2000s where really, BMW was the only good car in the segment (A4 was too fwd, C Class was too soft, a Cadillac competitor didn't exist, and Jag was too ugly, the 3 series was the only good compact luxury car in the 2000s, really only the G35/37 was close in handling, but not as pretty or expensive feeling) now, Mercedes, Audi, Jag and even Cadillac are catching up and closing the gap from what use to be an easy choice.

I love BMW, but we have to admit that cars today are getting even better and better, and even underdog brands like Genesis can create a great product. They may not be up to some of our standards, but its hard to deny with countless reviews and awards praising Genesis that they don't have something really good on their hands, not to mention that they have staffed engineers from German car brands, and Hyundai even has the ex-M division boss.

Time will of course tell what will happen to Genesis, and it may not sell in large numbers like its German and Japanese (Lexus) competitors, but I do think they have made a great car, one that I would easily recommend to someone.
Good post. I was also very impressed with the G70 and I was this close to ordering it but the M340 seemed promising and I wanted the extra BMW features. I know this is a BMW forum and a lot of people will automatically dismiss Genesis purely due to badge prestige, but these people aren't true car enthusiasts as far as I'm concerned. Completely agree that the G70 is a way better driver's car than the Audi S4/5, and while the C43 is very fun it is stiff as a board and somewhat jerky. Here's to hoping my M340 (to be delivered in 3 weeks) does not disappoint.
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      04-04-2019, 10:56 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by martyl View Post
Just bought a 3.3T G70. I agree with everything you say with the exception of the interior which is certainly better than my F30 335i, including the Lexicon sound system. I've had two 3 series and both through European Delivery. I enjoyed the F30 and my E90 but I'm glad I got the G70. The steering is much better as just about every review says.
Congrats on your new car! Enjoy it and let us know how you like it as you've had more time to become familiar with it.
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      04-05-2019, 02:11 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
How the market evaluates the resale value is a totally different subject based on volume and, yes, imaginary snobbery. And, let's be honest, if our primary objective was to buy a "quality product", we'd all be in Lexus dealerships buying cars from a Kia/Hyundai competitor - Toyota.
Ironically, no, we would all be driving a Genesis if the primary objective was to buy a quality product, according to JD Power. Genesis has occupied the #1 slot since 2017, shortly after it's been established as a separate brand from its parent company.



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Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
I disagree. The positioning of the brand is key here.

Leaving aside the fact that 100 years of German engineering tradition is not comparable to anything from Korea; if you're flooding the market with Rios, Sorentos and Optimas, and if your brand is associated with 'cheap to buy, cheap to run' cars, you can't charge BMW, Mercedes money from your upper class vehicles. (Which Kia don't) So you either have to cut cost, compromise to keep your margins intact, or keep the car at a niche, just as a prestige item for the brand and lose money from it which would prevent you from becoming a big player in the segment.

The bottom line is, hiring a few senior engineers from a prestigious German company doesn't bring you to their level. There's brand positioning, history, traditions.
And guess what? They aren't charging BMW money for the Genesis. They don't have the same margin as those established names, but it doesn't mean they aren't profitable, or that they are somehow scamming you with substandard parts. Call me crazy, but I don't think Hyundai/Kia hired away those engineers/designers because they worked for "prestigious German companies", but rather because they are the best in the industry that could help make its products better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Korean cars are cheap facsímiles of the real article. They sell you the "equivalent" for cheaper because compromises have been made where you don't see them or feel them. That's the scary aspect of Korean car ownership. You don't know what you don't know. There is no free lunch or free ride. With Korea motors inc, you get exactly what you pay for and the crappy dealer service experience that is sure to follow.

Speaking for myself only, I would never stamp my own signature for anything that doesn't have the roundel or 3 pointed star emblem on the hood.
They aren't giving away the Genesis for free. It's just priced more reasonably than the eye-poppingly overpriced German counterparts. Why don't you enlighten us with all the substandard parts that Genesis has slapped on its cars that the journalists and its owners surveyed by JD Power couldn't identify?

For the record, I have received plenty of crappy service from the BMW dealerships, so the Genesis dealers have good company (if they offer equally crappy service).
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      04-05-2019, 08:46 AM   #59
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Lol after working at Hyundai for 2 years.. and seeing the constant mechanical problems and recalls and techs complaining..... I'll stay away from that brand .. all I can say
When did you work there? They have been a lot better in recent years. And people are acting like BMW's are reliability kings! LOL
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      04-05-2019, 08:57 AM   #60
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Ironically, no, we would all be driving a Genesis if the primary objective was to buy a quality product, according to JD Power. Genesis has occupied the #1 slot since 2017, shortly after it's been established as a separate brand from its parent company...
You cited IQS data which is three months in service, primarily a measure of how well the assembly plant is producing. Many find the JDP VDS (Vehicle Durability Study)study more useful, as it captures the first three years in service. Genesis is at a disadvantage in this data set as a more recent brand, but Lexus is still topping the VDS, with Toyota, Porsche, Audi, and BMW in close sequence, based on experiences to date with 2016 vehicles. The 2020 VDS study will be interesting, indeed, to see how Genesis vehicles hold up in usage. Realizing a loaded V6 G70 was about $49k versus the 330/340 in the mid $50s up to over $60, it does give one pause.
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      04-05-2019, 09:28 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Congrats, I have to admit myself that the G70 has grown on me, and the wife, who wants a car that feels like her old E90, we're going to compare it against the new M340i when it arrives. Got any pics of your new G70?
The color I chose was Siberian Ice. I don't have pics which frankly don't really reveal the nature of the color. In pics it looks white but it's actually much different. It's amazing how many comments I received on it. The color is very unique and changes shades depending on the light. It bright sun it looks more white but in lower light it takes on a blueish/gray hue that is quite striking. I wouldn't normally choose a white car but this color really stands out for me. Thanks for all the comments.
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      04-05-2019, 09:34 AM   #62
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The color I chose was Siberian Ice. I don't have pics which frankly don't really reveal the nature of the color. In pics it looks white but it's actually much different. It's amazing how many comments I received on it. The color is very unique and changes shades depending on the light. It bright sun it looks more white but in lower light it takes on a blueish/gray hue that is quite striking. I wouldn't normally choose a white car but this color really stands out for me. Thanks for all the comments.
I think I might have seen one at my local Hyundai dealer in Siberian Ice, reminds me somewhat of Hokenheim Silver on the M2 Competition
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      04-05-2019, 04:51 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
You cited IQS data which is three months in service, primarily a measure of how well the assembly plant is producing. Many find the JDP VDS (Vehicle Durability Study)study more useful, as it captures the first three years in service. Genesis is at a disadvantage in this data set as a more recent brand, but Lexus is still topping the VDS, with Toyota, Porsche, Audi, and BMW in close sequence, based on experiences to date with 2016 vehicles. The 2020 VDS study will be interesting, indeed, to see how Genesis vehicles hold up in usage. Realizing a loaded V6 G70 was about $49k versus the 330/340 in the mid $50s up to over $60, it does give one pause.
If you take the VDS, it's not that the Genesis brand is at a disadvantage, but it hasn't existed long enough to have a VDS score. So, there is no direct comparison, hence my reason for picking the IQS.

As you suggested, if we extrapolate Kia/Hyundai as a proxy to see where Genesis will land in the future VDS ranking, it's a mixed bag.

VDS 2019: Lexus, Porsche, Toyota, Chevy, Buick, MINI, BMW, Audi, Hyundai, Kia, Infiniti, VW, ...
VDS 2018: Lexus, Porsche, Buick, Infiniti, Kia, Chevy, Hyundai, BMW, Toyota, Lincoln, ...

Hyundai/Kia ranked higher than both BMW and Toyota in 2018 while trailed in 2019. You can also take the Lexus/Toyota pair to extrapolate how the premium brand will fair compared to the mainstream brand, and one can argue it'll turn out more favorably. It's a mixed bag for sure to draw any meaningful conclusion (especially given JDP's somewhat controversial history).

My point here isn't to nitpick and argue that Genesis is all of sudden a premium brand to recon with or that the G70 is a superior car, but to counter the general snobbish attitude many here have that somehow an upcoming brand isn't worthy of consideration because it doesn't have the roundel or three-pointed star on the hood.

Maybe it's my naivete, but I thought we were car enthusiasts that evaluated cars based their individual merits, not how much you paid or which badges are on these cars. After reading some of the comments here, I am starting to think BMW ///marking got the target audience right when it started slapping the ///M badge everywhere.
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      04-05-2019, 05:15 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma01 View Post
If you take the VDS, it's not that the Genesis brand is at a disadvantage, but it hasn't existed long enough to have a VDS score. So, there is no direct comparison, hence my reason for picking the IQS.

As you suggested, if we extrapolate Kia/Hyundai as a proxy to see where Genesis will land in the future VDS ranking, it's a mixed bag.

VDS 2019: Lexus, Porsche, Toyota, Chevy, Buick, MINI, BMW, Audi, Hyundai, Kia, Infiniti, VW, ...
VDS 2018: Lexus, Porsche, Buick, Infiniti, Kia, Chevy, Hyundai, BMW, Toyota, Lincoln, ...

Hyundai/Kia ranked higher than both BMW and Toyota in 2018 while trailed in 2019. You can also take the Lexus/Toyota pair to extrapolate how the premium brand will fair compared to the mainstream brand, and one can argue it'll turn out more favorably. It's a mixed bag for sure to draw any meaningful conclusion (especially given JDP's somewhat controversial history).

My point here isn't to nitpick and argue that Genesis is all of sudden a premium brand to recon with or that the G70 is a superior car, but to counter the general snobbish attitude many here have that somehow an upcoming brand isn't worthy of consideration because it doesn't have the roundel or three-pointed star on the hood.

Maybe it's my naivete, but I thought we were car enthusiasts that evaluated cars based their individual merits, not how much you paid or which badges are on these cars. After reading some of the comments here, I am starting to think BMW ///marking got the target audience right when it started slapping the ///M badge everywhere.
Apologies if I was unclear, but its short lifespan as an independent brand was what I meant as the disadvantage. By definition, it cannot be included yet in VDS.

I agree with you otherwise. Before I chose the 330GT, I was very close to choosing a Stinger after a very pleasing test drive, but the rear seat accomodations were not sufficient for our needs. They oddly had eliminated the foot space under the front seat, so legs had to be retracted. Unfortunately, I fear the G70, a shorter vehicle, would be as bad or worse.
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      04-05-2019, 05:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
Apologies if I was unclear, but its short lifespan as an independent brand was what I meant as the disadvantage. By definition, it cannot be included yet in VDS.

I agree with you otherwise. Before I chose the 330GT, I was very close to choosing a Stinger after a very pleasing test drive, but the rear seat accomodations were not sufficient for our needs. They oddly had eliminated the foot space under the front seat, so legs had to be retracted. Unfortunately, I fear the G70, a shorter vehicle, would be as bad or worse.
Oh yes, legroom in the back of the G70 is pretty bad. Its pretty much E46 sized back seat room. That along with MPG, seem to be the biggest complaints in reviews.
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      04-06-2019, 12:15 PM   #66
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Just bought a 3.3T G70. I agree with everything you say with the exception of the interior which is certainly better than my F30 335i, including the Lexicon sound system. I've had two 3 series and both through European Delivery. I enjoyed the F30 and my E90 but I'm glad I got the G70. The steering is much better as just about every review says.
Interior is not better than F30, in terms of materials and build. Design is personal taste.
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