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      09-06-2019, 01:19 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
....and where are you getting MUCH better handling from? Both a 428i GC and an F30 328/330i have nearly identical performance numbers (....GC vs F30: 1/4 mile....14.2 @ 98mph vs. 14.2 @ 98.5 mph.....skidpad...0.89g vs. 0.88g....etc.).
I went from F30 335i -> F36 435GC ->F30 340i..

I can tell you that the driving characteristics between F30 3 series and F3X 4 series are different.

The reason i got the F36 was because i got a 4 series as loaner when my 335 was in service. and i knew i had to switch within 10 mins of driving the 4 series. Those are the things you cannot measure with #s.

I went back to F30 340i for much better leasing program in 2018 vs. 4 series. I kinda regret it tho...
Thank you for being honest about it.
The differences are far from subjective.
Alone the lower CoG and almost 50:50 distributed weight make a massive difference.

But yes - if driven by grandma, they'd be exactly the same (colour being the only difference) and she'll objectively get from A to B exactly as fast with either of them.

The 3 is not a bad car! It is just not a 4.
Sooooo, the performance tests that BMW and independent testers subjected these cars to in order to present stats to buyers [and determine how they objectively rate against other vehicles] were "driven by grandma"?
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      09-06-2019, 01:20 AM   #90
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We have obviously been reading very different reviews and comparisons of these cars....!
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      09-06-2019, 01:54 AM   #91
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We have obviously been reading very different reviews and comparisons of these cars....!
Look, I'm not knocking your precious GC (...for which your personal bias is expected), but from a performance standpoint the cars are pretty equal. There is nuance, but it's splitting hairs.....just like the endless M3 vs M4 comparos. Some prefer the feel of one over the other, but claiming a pure performance advantage is just silly.
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      09-06-2019, 02:36 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Look, I'm not knocking your precious GC (...for which your personal bias is expected), but from a performance standpoint the cars are pretty equal. There is nuance, but it's splitting hairs.....just like the endless M3 vs M4 comparos. Some prefer the feel of one over the other, but claiming a pure performance advantage is just silly.
I am certainly biased, but not because I have it, but because I chose it for a reason after a thorough research and test-drives.

"Pretty equal" is where the subjectiveness of adjectives objectively confirms a difference.

Why would anyone ever go as far as optimising Cw with Air Curtains.... it remains "pretty equal" after all.
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      09-06-2019, 02:41 AM   #93
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Look, I'm not knocking your precious GC (...for which your personal bias is expected), but from a performance standpoint the cars are pretty equal. There is nuance, but it's splitting hairs.....just like the endless M3 vs M4 comparos. Some prefer the feel of one over the other, but claiming a pure performance advantage is just silly.
I am certainly biased, but not because I have it, but because I chose it for a reason after a thorough research and test-drives.

"Pretty equal" is where the subjectiveness of adjectives objectively confirms a difference.
Play with semantics if you desire.
Enjoy your same wheelbase 30mm lower roofline '3 Series'. <wink>
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      09-07-2019, 08:37 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Look, I'm not knocking your precious GC (...for which your personal bias is expected), but from a performance standpoint the cars are pretty equal. There is nuance, but it's splitting hairs.....just like the endless M3 vs M4 comparos. Some prefer the feel of one over the other, but claiming a pure performance advantage is just silly.
I am certainly biased, but not because I have it, but because I chose it for a reason after a thorough research and test-drives.

"Pretty equal" is where the subjectiveness of adjectives objectively confirms a difference.
Play with semantics if you desire.
Enjoy your same wheelbase 30mm lower roofline '3 Series'. <wink>
The first time I drove a 4 series, I didn't expect a difference, due to the reasons you've listed. I figured, "Why should a 435i be different to drive than a 335i?" The handling numbers I'd seen didn't support it. But the dealership I was at had insisted I test drive one, so I succumbed. When I actually test drove the car, I was stunned. It felt so different to me, that I asked the dealer if there was something added to the car I was test driving that differentiated it from a normal 435i. When he answered no, I accused him of selecting sport mode when I wasn't paying attention, but a glance revealed that I was still in comfort mode at that point. I've since driven the f36 in different spec, and even with a base suspension 4 cylinder f36, it was noticeably different to drive than a comparably equipped f30.

I don't know exactly why this is. It could be the lower center of gravity, stiffer chassis, suspension tuning, 50-50 front to rear weight distribution, or whatever. To be blunt, I don't really care if it's one of the above reasons, all of them in conjunction, or none. Maybe during that fateful test drive, I was in a mood that made me easy to impress. Who can ever know.

All I do know is that I approached that test drive expecting nothing different from an f30 - having already owned and sold a 335i at that point - and I was pleasantly surprised. The f30, f32, and f36 "handle" similarly. That is, I don't think the 4 can do anything that the 3 series can't easily match, and both models share similar performance at the limit. The everyday driving feel, however, is noticeably different (in my humble opinion).
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      09-07-2019, 03:25 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Look, I'm not knocking your precious GC (...for which your personal bias is expected), but from a performance standpoint the cars are pretty equal. There is nuance, but it's splitting hairs.....just like the endless M3 vs M4 comparos. Some prefer the feel of one over the other, but claiming a pure performance advantage is just silly.
I am certainly biased, but not because I have it, but because I chose it for a reason after a thorough research and test-drives.

"Pretty equal" is where the subjectiveness of adjectives objectively confirms a difference.
Play with semantics if you desire.
Enjoy your same wheelbase 30mm lower roofline '3 Series'. <wink>
The first time I drove a 4 series, I didn't expect a difference, due to the reasons you've listed. I figured, "Why should a 435i be different to drive than a 335i?" The handling numbers I'd seen didn't support it. But the dealership I was at had insisted I test drive one, so I succumbed. When I actually test drove the car, I was stunned. It felt so different to me, that I asked the dealer if there was something added to the car I was test driving that differentiated it from a normal 435i. When he answered no, I accused him of selecting sport mode when I wasn't paying attention, but a glance revealed that I was still in comfort mode at that point. I've since driven the f36 in different spec, and even with a base suspension 4 cylinder f36, it was noticeably different to drive than a comparably equipped f30.

I don't know exactly why this is. It could be the lower center of gravity, stiffer chassis, suspension tuning, 50-50 front to rear weight distribution, or whatever. To be blunt, I don't really care if it's one of the above reasons, all of them in conjunction, or none. Maybe during that fateful test drive, I was in a mood that made me easy to impress. Who can ever know.

All I do know is that I approached that test drive expecting nothing different from an f30 - having already owned and sold a 335i at that point - and I was pleasantly surprised. The f30, f32, and f36 "handle" similarly. That is, I don't think the 4 can do anything that the 3 series can't easily match, and both models share similar performance at the limit. The everyday driving feel, however, is noticeably different (in my humble opinion).
The f32 4 series has a wider track and as a result different suspension geometry than the f30. The 4s are not in fact clones of the 3s. The M3 and m4 however do share the same track and and suspension this is why the flared bodywork front and rear is more pronounced on the M3.

Worth noting the new G20 shares its track with the f32 4 series, obviously a different overall platform but bmw liked something about that setup
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      09-16-2019, 10:24 AM   #96
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      09-16-2019, 11:10 AM   #97
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It's all coming together.
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      09-16-2019, 12:25 PM   #98
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Almost looks like a cross between the old 4GC and the GT, looks more bubbly in the back than the old 4GC...

also appears the grill is more like the 3 series which would be odd if the 4 coupe is getting the buck tooth/Hitler stash grill.

I had high hopes for a M4GC AWD, which appeared to be possible, not so sure it will happen or that I will even like how this front end turns out. I am all for change, but make it more subtle
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      09-16-2019, 12:31 PM   #99
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Quote:
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also appears the grill is more like the 3 series which would be odd if the 4 coupe is getting the buck tooth/Hitler stash grill.
oh look closely.. its there

I was banking on an i4 to replace my i3.. not sure I can deal with that grill! (and this is coming from an i3 owner, a car which isn't exactly "pretty")
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      09-16-2019, 12:37 PM   #100
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It's all coming together.
Yet another nebulous comment from Scott 26.
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      09-16-2019, 12:42 PM   #101
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Only a test drive will produce data points for a buy / lease decision.

I own 2017 F36 (with practically every option) and feel this is the best car I've owned so far.
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      09-16-2019, 12:44 PM   #102
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If it ends up looking anything like the recently revealed G22 Concept, then it's dead in the water for me.
I'm an F36 owner, btw - which is one of the best looking cars which BMW has produced in years, imo.
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      09-16-2019, 01:01 PM   #103
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Well it doesn't have the squared off hood lines leading to the nostrils so thats good.
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      09-16-2019, 01:03 PM   #104
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Quote:
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Almost looks like a cross between the old 4GC and the GT, looks more bubbly in the back than the old 4GC...

also appears the grill is more like the 3 series which would be odd if the 4 coupe is getting the buck tooth/Hitler stash grill.

I had high hopes for a M4GC AWD, which appeared to be possible, not so sure it will happen or that I will even like how this front end turns out. I am all for change, but make it more subtle
The grill doesn't look like a 3 Series. I think you need better glasses. In one of the front end pics you can see the same mesh design from the concept.
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      09-16-2019, 01:04 PM   #105
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It's all coming together.
Yes it is. Exciting!!!
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      09-16-2019, 01:10 PM   #106
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Well it doesn't have the squared off hood lines leading to the nostrils so thats good.
Yes it does. Look closer.
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      09-16-2019, 01:26 PM   #107
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The Gran Coupe certainly does have a slightly different driving characteristic. But it really just comes down to suspension tuning. Yeah the track is a few mm wider (less than the minimum amount that the thinnest wheel spacers would add) and the car is a few mm shorter, but that's more for appearance than anything. 90% of the difference in feel is just from modified suspension components. Actual objective road handling tests show the 3 series drives almost exactly the same as a 4 series.

Coupes from BMW and other manufacturers have always had more aggressive suspension tuning. And it really just comes down to modified spring rates and dampers. The actual geometry of the suspension is almost identical as are major mechanical components like the engine, transmission, steering rack, and subframes. Any changes in feel can easily be accomplished by simply modifying the dampers and springs which goes to show how little the tweaks in dimensions do.

I have driven a few Gran Coupes and I do prefer how they are tuned better than a stock F30. However, I personally prefer the styling of the F30 and a simple suspension upgrade got me better handling anyway.
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      09-16-2019, 02:04 PM   #108
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Rear 3/4 shots and side profile are looking very nice
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      09-16-2019, 02:06 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
The f32 4 series has a wider track and as a result different suspension geometry than the f30. The 4s are not in fact clones of the 3s. The M3 and m4 however do share the same track and and suspension this is why the flared bodywork front and rear is more pronounced on the M3.

Worth noting the new G20 shares its track with the f32 4 series, obviously a different overall platform but bmw liked something about that setup
The G20 is bigger overall. I think if you look at length/wheelbase to track ratio, it's probably fairly similar.
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      09-16-2019, 02:56 PM   #110
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Quote:
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The grill doesn't look like a 3 Series. I think you need better glasses. In one of the front end pics you can see the same mesh design from the concept.
originally saw it on my phone... I see that now
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