[VipinLJ]

Originally Posted by Razor2010

BMW website actually lists the M235i xdrive a little heavier than the 330i, 3,605 vs. 3,589 lbs.

I actually love that the 330i is lighter than the M340i even if lower powered, and basically the same weight as the M235i.

My WRX Sti7 was roughly 275 HP and TQ and 3,200 lbs. so I am expecting my 330i to feel similar acceleration wise.

I just googled their weights and it says M235i GC has a curb weight of 2605lbs and the 330i drive has a curb weight of 3764lbs Which makes sense since the M235i is a smaller car

The stock 330i doesn’t feel slow. Infact, the fake noise (ASD) makes it feel faster than it is I’ve thrashed WRX STIs with my A4. Ive also thrashed charger scat packs too with it. Even had one guy roll up next to me at a red light and then tried to get in front of me when it turned green but he didn’t expect a “measly” A4 to spank him off the line. He rolled up next to me at the next light and said he was genuinely surprised it pulled so hard. Which is why I want more power from my 330i. Sometimes I wish I had done my homework better and just gotten an M340i instead.

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by VipinLJ

I just googled their weights and it says M235i GC has a curb weight of 2605lbs and the 330i drive has a curb weight of 3764lbs Which makes sense since the M235i is a smaller car

The stock 330i doesn’t feel slow. Infact, the fake noise (ASD) makes it feel faster than it is I’ve thrashed WRX STIs with my A4. Ive also thrashed charger scat packs too with it. Even had one guy roll up next to me at a red light and then tried to get in front of me when it turned green but he didn’t expect a “measly” A4 to spank him off the line. He rolled up next to me at the next light and said he was genuinely surprised it pulled so hard. Which is why I want more power from my 330i. Sometimes I wish I had done my homework better and just gotten an M340i instead.

Yes, the 330i xdrive weighs more than the 330i non xdrive.

[VipinLJ]

Originally Posted by Razor2010

Yes, the 330i xdrive weighs more than the 330i non xdrive.

Ah gotcha. Mine is the xDrive. But I guess the weight negates the awd grip? I’ve seen videos of the non-xDrive car launching and they have wheel spin which my car doesn’t, even when grip is low.

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by VipinLJ

Ah gotcha. Mine is the xDrive. But I guess the weight negates the awd grip? I’ve seen videos of the non-xDrive car launching and they have wheel spin which my car doesn’t, even when grip is low.

I would imagine a rolling start from 3-5 mph with a 330i non-xdrive on dry road would not suffer any wheel spin? I am willing to have less grip for lighter weight, could always get stickier tyres as well. I also added the M-LSD.

[VipinLJ]

Originally Posted by Razor2010

I would imagine a rolling start from 3-5 mph with a 330i non-xdrive on dry road would not suffer any wheel spin? I am willing to have less grip for lighter weight, could always get stickier tyres as well. I also added the M-LSD.

Yup. Rolling start will be fine. And I’d get a non-xDrive version if I could but being where I’m at now, an AWD car is out of the question unless I’m willing to leave it unused when it snows here.

[possible335i2008]

Originally Posted by VipinLJ

I just googled their weights and it says M235i GC has a curb weight of 2605lbs and the 330i drive has a curb weight of 3764lbs Which makes sense since the M235i is a smaller car

The stock 330i doesn't feel slow. Infact, the fake noise (ASD) makes it feel faster than it is I've thrashed WRX STIs with my A4. Ive also thrashed charger scat packs too with it. Even had one guy roll up next to me at a red light and then tried to get in front of me when it turned green but he didn't expect a "measly" A4 to spank him off the line. He rolled up next to me at the next light and said he was genuinely surprised it pulled so hard. Which is why I want more power from my 330i. Sometimes I wish I had done my homework better and just gotten an M340i instead.

What did you have on your a4? I just got out of a Sti with flex/gas tune and never had a problem with any a4 I had seen out and about. Maybe you had a factory freak?

[VipinLJ]

Originally Posted by possible335i2008

What did you have on your a4? I just got out of a Sti with flex/gas tune and never had a problem with any a4 I had seen out and about. Maybe you had a factory freak?

Just a Racechip ultimate and an intake. And A4s are underrated. Lots of people get a 0-60 in 5s flat with a stock car. With the piggyback and intake, I got a 4.6xs on a dragy. Unfortunately I can’t find it now since it was a while back and the car is gone too. But yes. It was very fast. Even stock for stock, I think my A4 felt faster than my 330i. Plus quattro and DSG helps it launch well compared to a manual transmission.

With a simple stage 1 tune (APR/Revo), people are doing 4.4-4.5s without any weight saving or other mods.

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by possible335i2008

What did you have on your a4? I just got out of a Sti with flex/gas tune and never had a problem with any a4 I had seen out and about. Maybe you had a factory freak?

Out of curiosity, what year Sti? Was it USA spec? Do you know how much HP and TQ it was putting out after the tune.

I had a JDM Sti7 bugeye, RHD. Loved that car, but she was close to 10 years old when I sold her.

[possible335i2008]

Originally Posted by Razor2010

Out of curiosity, what year Sti? Was it USA spec? Do you know how much HP and TQ it was putting out after the tune.

I had a JDM Sti7 bugeye, RHD. Loved that car, but she was close to 10 years old when I sold her.

It was a 2018 Sti, on e85 I was at 335/375 to the wheels and on 93 I was at 300/315, this was on a mustang dyno during my dyno tune. It was a USA spec car, it's a very "manual" car in every aspect. I enjoyed it but the prospect of spending 15-20 grand to get another 75 horse power and the overall reliability made me leave the platform. The car drives well stock but if you want more just find another vehicle too many engine problems. It's nice being in my m340i which is faster and has a full warranty and the power is perfect.

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by possible335i2008

It was a 2018 Sti, on e85 I was at 335/375 to the wheels and on 93 I was at 300/315, this was on a mustang dyno during my dyno tune. It was a USA spec car, it's a very "manual" car in every aspect. I enjoyed it but the prospect of spending 15-20 grand to get another 75 horse power and the overall reliability made me leave the platform. The car drives well stock but if you want more just find another vehicle too many engine problems. It's nice being in my m340i which is faster and has a full warranty and the power is perfect.

Thanks.

[hamzag20]

Hello all,

So currently I'm on a lease that ends in 2022 and am super confused as to whether I should buy a JB+. As of right now all I've done to my car is put tints, blacked it out, and a muffler delete. I wanna do something to add more power but am confused whether I should put my money into a JB+. The thing with the JB+ from what I've heard is tht you 20-30 hp max and you can't even tell the diff. Also, most people have said just go for BM3 as flash tunes are safer than piggybacks as piggybacks constantly trick the ECU while flash tunes have full control. I'd go with BM3 but am scared that if I brick my car like VipinLJ I'm screwed since I'm on a lease. Also, Idk if it's worth it to lash out 600 dollars like that if I can get a JB+. I'm scared of the JB+ bc it might affect the reliability of my car as its fighting and tricking the ECU. What do you guys think? Should I go stock, get the JB+, or just do BM3?

[sspdw]

Originally Posted by hamzag20

Hello all,

So currently I'm on a lease that ends in 2022 and am super confused as to whether I should buy a JB+. As of right now all I've done to my car is put tints, blacked it out, and a muffler delete. I wanna do something to add more power but am confused whether I should put my money into a JB+. The thing with the JB+ from what I've heard is tht you 20-30 hp max and you can't even tell the diff. Also, most people have said just go for BM3 as flash tunes are safer than piggybacks as piggybacks constantly trick the ECU while flash tunes have full control. I'd go with BM3 but am scared that if I brick my car like VipinLJ I'm screwed since I'm on a lease. Also, Idk if it's worth it to lash out 600 dollars like that if I can get a JB+. I'm scared of the JB+ bc it might affect the reliability of my car as its fighting and tricking the ECU. What do you guys think? Should I go stock, get the JB+, or just do BM3?

You havent got a good custom tuner nearby?

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by hamzag20

Hello all,

So currently I'm on a lease that ends in 2022 and am super confused as to whether I should buy a JB+. As of right now all I've done to my car is put tints, blacked it out, and a muffler delete. I wanna do something to add more power but am confused whether I should put my money into a JB+. The thing with the JB+ from what I've heard is tht you 20-30 hp max and you can't even tell the diff. Also, most people have said just go for BM3 as flash tunes are safer than piggybacks as piggybacks constantly trick the ECU while flash tunes have full control. I'd go with BM3 but am scared that if I brick my car like VipinLJ I'm screwed since I'm on a lease. Also, Idk if it's worth it to lash out 600 dollars like that if I can get a JB+. I'm scared of the JB+ bc it might affect the reliability of my car as its fighting and tricking the ECU. What do you guys think? Should I go stock, get the JB+, or just do BM3?

VipinLJ claims he can indeed 'feel' the difference.

You are correct though, unless you have access to very high octane fuel (100 RON+) and reasonably cool climates year round, I wouldn't just slap on a JB+ which essentially just turns up the boost probably between 2 - 5 psi. At a 10.2 compression, and small enough turbo to see very low down torque, I would imagine achieving 255 hp and 296 TQ on recommended 95 RON fuel is pushing the reliability of this little 2 litre engine and this is at the stock level.

Using a VERY experienced tuner and installing a proper knock and detonation monitoring device while he is custom tuning your car would seem the only 'safe' way to go even with only asking 30 HP and TQ gains.

[hamzag20]

Originally Posted by Razor2010

VipinLJ claims he can indeed 'feel' the difference.

You are correct though, unless you have access to very high octane fuel (100 RON+) and reasonably cool climates year round, I wouldn't just slap on a JB+ which essentially just turns up the boost probably between 2 - 5 psi. At a 10.2 compression, and small enough turbo to see very low down torque, I would imagine achieving 255 hp and 296 TQ on recommended 95 RON fuel is pushing the reliability of this little 2 litre engine and this is at the stock level.

Using a VERY experienced tuner and installing a proper knock and detonation monitoring device while he is custom tuning your car would seem the only 'safe' way to go even with only asking 30 HP and TQ gains.

Lol I did not think I would be "pushing" the engine on stock. Well if the JB+ is out of question since it doesn't seem like it's great for the engine, you think BM3 is the better option?

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by hamzag20

Lol I did not think I would be "pushing" the engine on stock. Well if the JB+ is out of question since it doesn't seem like it's great for the engine, you think BM3 is the better option?

These are only my opinions.

There is no free lunch out there.....low down torque / minimal turbo lag = smaller turbo. Smaller turbo = harder to extract more power from a 2 litre engine. The 330i has achieved fairly high HP and TQ stock with a smaller turbo because of direct injection and higher compression. The higher compression likely = more risk, than a lower compression and bigger turbo design that would = more lag. Also, this 330i seems to be getting some very impressive MPG numbers, which means it's probably running pretty lean for a forced induction engine. This = more risk as fuel is often used to 'cool' forced induction engines. Again, no free lunch.

As an example, my old Sti7, 2 litre with some pretty strong internals from factory, was set-up from factory to run 100 RON fuel (like 94/95 API USA rated octane, which I would be surprised is readily available at the pump for you). In my hot climate, the car would knock / Det on 95 RON fuel and this was only pushing stock 275 HP & TQ at a lower compression than the 330i. Granted, it did not have direct injection which I think helps the numbers especially MPG wise.

My point being, that even stock engines can be tuned pretty close to their safe limits if your particular situation is harsher than average, i.e., lower RON fuel mixed with hot and humid temperatures.

Just because we 'think' the manufacturer has built in a lot of room for error doesn't mean that it's no big deal to just turn up the boost (which is all the JB+ does as far as I am aware) and expect that there is minimal risk. My guess is that there is indeed significant risk of knock / detonation by just turning up the boost 2 - 5 psi., again, unless you have access to high octane fuel (100 RON+) and 75'F of less consistent ambient temperatures.

[sspdw]

Originally Posted by Razor2010

These are only my opinions.

There is no free lunch out there.....low down torque / minimal turbo lag = smaller turbo. Smaller turbo = harder to extract more power from a 2 litre engine. The 330i has achieved fairly high HP and TQ stock with a smaller turbo because of direct injection and higher compression. The higher compression likely = more risk, than a lower compression and bigger turbo design that would = more lag. Also, this 330i seems to be getting some very impressive MPG numbers, which means it's probably running pretty lean for a forced induction engine. This = more risk as fuel is often used to 'cool' forced induction engines. Again, no free lunch.

As an example, my old Sti7, 2 litre with some pretty strong internals from factory, was set-up from factory to run 100 RON fuel (like 94/95 API USA rated octane, which I would be surprised is readily available at the pump for you). In my hot climate, the car would knock / Det on 95 RON fuel and this was only pushing stock 275 HP & TQ at a lower compression than the 330i. Granted, it did not have direct injection which I think helps the numbers especially MPG wise.

My point being, that even stock engines can be tuned pretty close to their safe limits if your particular situation is harsher than average, i.e., lower RON fuel mixed with hot and humid temperatures.

Just because we 'think' the manufacturer has built in a lot of room for error doesn't mean that it's no big deal to just turn up the boost (which is all the JB+ does as far as I am aware) and expect that there is minimal risk. My guess is that there is indeed significant risk of knock / detonation by just turning up the boost 2 - 5 psi., again, unless you have access to high octane fuel (100 RON+) and 75'F of less consistent ambient temperatures.

Well, b58s are doing 460-470hp easily with 93/98oct and the b58 uses higher 11:1 compression. Thats would be 305-310hp in a 2.0l. There arent much reports of tuned b58s breaking down are there? 300 is a "safetune" from my conversations with a very good custom tuner.

[VipinLJ]

Is there any way you can tell your engine is knocking without any gauges and stuff? I’m running my JB+ at max boost which is 4 or 4.5psi I believe. I haven’t felt my engine sound or act weird. It sounds like it did before I added JB+.

I was planning on getting a JB4 but I read that that also adds only upto 5psi in the different maps and I watched a few videos where guys who have upgraded to a Jb4 from JB+ said the difference was noticeable only after around 5500 rpms. Below that, they said it felt similar to a JB+. Plus I’d need to spend an extra $140 over the $529 for the jb4 ($670 for a piggy back is a little too much). But yes. My butt dyno can definitely tell the difference. Below around 2500 rpms, the car feels the same as stock. But once the turbo kicks in, it definitely feels faster. Even my wife who knows nothing about tuning and performance said she feels the difference.

With regards to BM3. The issue I faced seems to have scared a lot of others too. But I’d be scared like you guys too if someone else had the same issues I had and they reported it on forums. I don’t know if it was a one off issue or if it will happen to all later production models. At first, I assumed it was a one off until I did more digging around and talking to different people. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find anyone with a newer car who has BM3 on it (most people have earlier production cars). There was one person who had a slightly older car than mine who is running BM3 but he has errors and stuff popping up which could be related to the tune. If anyone who has a 330i produced after mid of 2019 is running a BM3 tune, we’d love to hear how it is going for you. Till I see a few people running tunes on cars produced towards the end of 2019 or beginning of 2020, I personally will not be getting one.

Are times safer than piggybacks? Probably. But a JB+ is extremely mild. It doesn’t produce enough boost to blow up an engine. I did read a couple of threads the other day about people blowing up their engine on cars that ran a tune. I read about a 320i and an M2C with cracked pistons. Google and you’ll see that I’m not kidding.

To be really safe, stick to stock. If anything, you’ll have warranty and bmw will have no excuse to deny it in case something does ever happen.

Edit - I did the googling for you guys. The 320i had the N20 engine but still.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1694271

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1614600

I’m not bad mouthing a company or tunes in general. Just saying that tunes aren’t necessarily safe either. Hell. After reading those threads, I even contemplated taking my JB+ off and I did for a few hours a few days back and damn. The car felt slower and I put it right back on.

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by sspdw

Well, b58s are doing 460-470hp easily with 93/98oct and the b58 uses higher 11:1 compression. Thats would be 305-310hp in a 2.0l. There arent much reports of tuned b58s breaking down are there? 300 is a "safetune" from my conversations with a very good custom tuner.

Again, a proper custom tune may be able to yield 300 BHP 'safely', perhaps that is possible, not denying that. However, RON fuel rating and ambient temperatures will have a large impact on the level of safety.

What do you mean '93/98 oct'? I assume you mean the USA API rating for octane? If so, that is quite a large difference between 93 and 98.

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by VipinLJ

Is there any way you can tell your engine is knocking without any gauges and stuff? I’m running my JB+ at max boost which is 4 or 4.5psi I believe. I haven’t felt my engine sound or act weird. It sounds like it did before I added JB+.

I was planning on getting a JB4 but I read that that also adds only upto 5psi in the different maps and I watched a few videos where guys who have upgraded to a Jb4 from JB+ said the difference was noticeable only after around 5500 rpms. Below that, they said it felt similar to a JB+. Plus I’d need to spend an extra $140 over the $529 for the jb4 ($670 for a piggy back is a little too much). But yes. My butt dyno can definitely tell the difference. Below around 2500 rpms, the car feels the same as stock. But once the turbo kicks in, it definitely feels faster. Even my wife who knows nothing about tuning and performance said she feels the difference.

With regards to BM3. The issue I faced seems to have scared a lot of others too. But I’d be scared like you guys too if someone else had the same issues I had and they reported it on forums. I don’t know if it was a one off issue or if it will happen to all later production models. At first, I assumed it was a one off until I did more digging around and talking to different people. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find anyone with a newer car who has BM3 on it (most people have earlier production cars). There was one person who had a slightly older car than mine who is running BM3 but he has errors and stuff popping up which could be related to the tune. If anyone who has a 330i produced after mid of 2019 is running a BM3 tune, we’d love to hear how it is going for you. Till I see a few people running tunes on cars produced towards the end of 2019 or beginning of 2020, I personally will not be getting one.

Are times safer than piggybacks? Probably. But a JB+ is extremely mild. It doesn’t produce enough boost to blow up an engine. I did read a couple of threads the other day about people blowing up their engine on cars that ran a tune. I read about a 320i and an M2C with cracked pistons. Google and you’ll see that I’m not kidding.

To be really safe, stick to stock. If anything, you’ll have warranty and bmw will have no excuse to deny it in case something does ever happen.

Edit - I did the googling for you guys. The 320i had the N20 engine but still.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1694271

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1614600

I’m not bad mouthing a company or tunes in general. Just saying that tunes aren’t necessarily safe either. Hell. After reading those threads, I even contemplated taking my JB+ off and I did for a few hours a few days back and damn. The car felt slower and I put it right back on.

Yes, there are aftermarket 'knock sensors' which is basically a little microphone that you mount on the engine block and it sends a reading to a display that shows knock and detonation levels. I would imagine these are not 100% accurate though. An experienced tuner looking at many logs of your engine under multiple conditions would be one of the best ways to understand what is happening under this increase in boost in regards to how timing, fueling, etc. are reacting.

I would argue that adding 4 - 4.5 psi of boost to the stock level of 17-19 psi of boost is an increase in boost of 22%+ and that is indeed quite significant and 'could' in theory damage your engine in the wrong circumstances (lower octane and higher intake ambient temperatures). I know this is not what people want to hear but just increasing boost by 22%+ is not something to take lightly.

Fully agreed that a 'custom' tune can do damage - no doubt. The key here is a 'proper' custom tune by someone that has significant tuning experience and takes enough time tuning your car to the custom conditions it will be used in (octane levels and intake ambient temps, track conditions, etc.).

[VipinLJ]

Originally Posted by Razor2010

Yes, there are aftermarket 'knock sensors' which is basically a little microphone that you mount on the engine block and it sends a reading to a display that shows knock and detonation levels. I would imagine these are not 100% accurate though. An experienced tuner looking at many logs of your engine under multiple conditions would be one of the best ways to understand what is happening under this increase in boost in regards to how timing, fueling, etc. are reacting.

I would argue that adding 4 - 4.5 psi of boost to the stock level of 17-19 psi of boost is an increase in boost of 22%+ and that is indeed quite significant and 'could' in theory damage your engine in the wrong circumstances (lower octane and higher intake ambient temperatures). I know this is not what people want to hear but just increasing boost by 22%+ is not something to take lightly.

Fully agreed that a 'custom' tune can do damage - no doubt. The key here is a 'proper' custom tune by someone that has significant tuning experience and takes enough time tuning your car to the custom conditions it will be used in (octane levels and intake ambient temps, track conditions, etc.).

Ah ok. I’m assuming BMS did their homework with the JB+ and JB4. The B46/48 engine has been out for a while and they even had a test car to fine tune their boxes. So I guess they would’ve looked at knocking and stuff?

And I did not mean to say that the boost added was insignificant. But from my reading online, JB+ is a mild “tune” and it doesn’t stress engine components enough to cause errors and blow ups. I haven’t yet come across a thread where a car had a blown or seized engine because of a JB+. JB4 and tunes yes.

Also, I’m not dissing tunes. Heck. I have a car that has a proper tune (not piggyback) and it has been running absolutely perfectly since 2014 (which was when I got the tune). Would I choose a tune over a piggyback? Absolutely. Why do I not have a tune in my 330i then? We all know the answer to that

If I had a shop near where I live who could flash my car for me or even make a custom tune, I’d give them my money. The only one I found an hour or so away sold noelle performance tunes for like $1600 or so. But there aren’t enough reviews online about NP and $1600 was way too much (2.5x what BM3 charges). If there was a BM3 dealer nearby, I’d have given them my car to be flashed.

Edit - 93/98 octane probably means 93AKI/98RON

[Razor2010]

Originally Posted by VipinLJ

Ah ok. I’m assuming BMS did their homework with the JB+ and JB4. The B46/48 engine has been out for a while and they even had a test car to fine tune their boxes. So I guess they would’ve looked at knocking and stuff?

And I did not mean to say that the boost added was insignificant. But from my reading online, JB+ is a mild “tune” and it doesn’t stress engine components enough to cause errors and blow ups. I haven’t yet come across a thread where a car had a blown or seized engine because of a JB+. JB4 and tunes yes.

Also, I’m not dissing tunes. Heck. I have a car that has a proper tune (not piggyback) and it has been running absolutely perfectly since 2014 (which was when I got the tune). Would I choose a tune over a piggyback? Absolutely. Why do I not have a tune in my 330i then? We all know the answer to that

If I had a shop near where I live who could flash my car for me or even make a custom tune, I’d give them my money. The only one I found an hour or so away sold noelle performance tunes for like $1600 or so. But there aren’t enough reviews online about NP and $1600 was way too much (2.5x what BM3 charges). If there was a BM3 dealer nearby, I’d have given them my car to be flashed.

Edit - 93/98 octane probably means 93AKI/98RON

All makes sense

[VipinLJ]

Originally Posted by Razor2010

All makes sense

I read threads where they say the N20 engine turbos had a limit of around 23-24psi. I’m assuming the B46/48 is somewhere in that range too (?). With the JB+, I believe stock boost would just about touch 19psi? I tried searching how much boost the B46 produces but couldn’t find any data.