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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) i4, i430, i440 (G26) EV Forum Presenting the BMW i4 Concept

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      03-04-2020, 04:13 PM   #111
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      03-05-2020, 12:36 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
You appear to be using sales figures as a tool to push back on my contention that Tesla isn't a luxury brand. Toyota's Camry sold 337k units in 2019... Does that make a Toyota a luxury nameplate in your mind? To me, the data you present reinforces my point that Tesla is more of a mass-market brand.
The chart he posted seems valid to me since it compares Tesla to other luxury brands.
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      03-05-2020, 01:43 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
You appear to be using sales figures as a tool to push back on my contention that Tesla isn't a luxury brand. Toyota's Camry sold 337k units in 2019... Does that make a Toyota a luxury nameplate in your mind? To me, the data you present reinforces my point that Tesla is more of a mass-market brand.
The chart he posted seems valid to me since it compares Tesla to other luxury brands.
The chart may be accurate , but it isn't at all relevant to proving Tesla being a luxury nameplate. Sales volume doesn't make Tesla a luxury brand, just as sales volume doesn't make Toyota a luxury brand.

My contention is Tesla's sales volume actually proves my point that Tesla is a mass-market brand. Luxury brands of every type of goods I can think of, experience lower sales volume than mass-market brands. It's actually completely foolish to point to higher sales volume as evidence of a brand being a luxury brand.
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      03-06-2020, 09:10 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
The chart may be accurate , but it isn't at all relevant to proving Tesla being a luxury nameplate. Sales volume doesn't make Tesla a luxury brand, just as sales volume doesn't make Toyota a luxury brand.

My contention is Tesla's sales volume actually proves my point that Tesla is a mass-market brand. Luxury brands of every type of goods I can think of, experience lower sales volume than mass-market brands. It's actually completely foolish to point to higher sales volume as evidence of a brand being a luxury brand.
Tesla is certainly not a luxury brand. But neither is BMW.
Upper part of mass market together with Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, sure. But not luxury.
Luxury brands would be Rolls, Bugatti, Bentley, Aston Martin, Maserati, etc...
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      03-06-2020, 09:43 AM   #115
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Tesla is certainly not a luxury brand. But neither is BMW.
Upper part of mass market together with Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, sure. But not luxury.
Luxury brands would be Rolls, Bugatti, Bentley, Aston Martin, Maserati, etc...
This discussion is rather pointless, as there is no "bright line" to distinguish luxury brands. It varies by market and individual perception. MB's E Class cars are impressive in the U.S.; in Germany, they are taxi cabs. The brands you mention have, on occasion, been described as "Ultra Luxury", so what is really the point of this debate?
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      03-06-2020, 10:42 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by matbl View Post
Tesla is certainly not a luxury brand. But neither is BMW.
Upper part of mass market together with Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, sure. But not luxury.
Luxury brands would be Rolls, Bugatti, Bentley, Aston Martin, Maserati, etc...
This discussion is rather pointless, as there is no "bright line" to distinguish luxury brands. It varies by market and individual perception. MB's E Class cars are impressive in the U.S.; in Germany, they are taxi cabs. The brands you mention have, on occasion, been described as "Ultra Luxury", so what is really the point of this debate?
I believe I used the "US market" qualifier.

This circle jerk came about because I commented that nobody should expect a BMW of a particular class/size to be the same price as a Tesla in that size/class. I don't see Tesla as having the same stature of luxury as BMW. I personally think of a Tesla being more akin to a Volkswagen, or perhaps a Volvo. If BMW is smart they'd make sure this differentiation was crystal clear by using high-grade materials, and maintain their superior fit, finish, and reliability. BMW should stop with the woke vegan interior materials crap. Stop lowering yourself to Tesla's level, and put interior materials (thinking Marino leather) that luxury buyers expect. Make a BMW that happens to be an EV, instead of making a BMW version of a Tesla. This is the contrast BMW needs to show.
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      03-06-2020, 12:30 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
...If BMW is smart they'd make sure this differentiation was crystal clear by using high-grade materials.... BMW should stop with the woke vegan interior materials crap....
other posters have roasted you enough on your definition of "luxury" so i'm not gonna respond to that.

back to your above point, if you think "material quality" is how BMW is going to beat Tesla in the EV game then i have no words to describe how wrong you are, we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm sure in the old days, better leather on the dash and door pocket is exactly how BMW made more sales on the 3 series vs the C class and A4.

honestly i'm happy for BMW to have came up with the i4, if nothing else it brings competition and that's always good for me as a consumer.
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      03-06-2020, 11:32 PM   #118
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The BMW iX3 (not currently planned for the U.S. market) due to go into production in 2020
WHAT DA F***?! Where did this come from?! Do they not know US market?!!!
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      03-07-2020, 03:37 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
I believe I used the "US market" qualifier.

This circle jerk came about because I commented that nobody should expect a BMW of a particular class/size to be the same price as a Tesla in that size/class. I don't see Tesla as having the same stature of luxury as BMW. I personally think of a Tesla being more akin to a Volkswagen, or perhaps a Volvo. If BMW is smart they'd make sure this differentiation was crystal clear by using high-grade materials, and maintain their superior fit, finish, and reliability. BMW should stop with the woke vegan interior materials crap. Stop lowering yourself to Tesla's level, and put interior materials (thinking Marino leather) that luxury buyers expect. Make a BMW that happens to be an EV, instead of making a BMW version of a Tesla. This is the contrast BMW needs to show.
I agree with you in parts.
Tesla's interior isn't up to par even with a Volvo and even less so compared to BMW or Mrecedes.
I had a Tesla for three years but switched back to BMW when the lease was up.
I honestly don't know what's wrong with Tesla. They have a superior electric drive with the best range, fast charging and a superior charging network, best in class semi self driving, etc.
But then they do the interior (seats, storage, materials) and options (no hud, 4 zone acc, etc) like crap.
Can't wait for a BMW 5series-size TOURING fully electric.
Or a Merc if they beat BMW to it.
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      03-07-2020, 04:07 AM   #120
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If the car is about as long as the 3er (4m70), how tall is Adrian van Hooydonk?!


Well he is Dutch....

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JK
It reminded me of that stach as well.
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      03-07-2020, 05:57 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by ecaedus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
...If BMW is smart they'd make sure this differentiation was crystal clear by using high-grade materials.... BMW should stop with the woke vegan interior materials crap....
other posters have roasted you enough on your definition of "luxury" so i'm not gonna respond to that.

back to your above point, if you think "material quality" is how BMW is going to beat Tesla in the EV game then i have no words to describe how wrong you are, we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm sure in the old days, better leather on the dash and door pocket is exactly how BMW made more sales on the 3 series vs the C class and A4.

honestly i'm happy for BMW to have came up with the i4, if nothing else it brings competition and that's always good for me as a consumer.
Thanks for putting "other posters have roasted you enough" in the beginning of your reply. This way we saw your pettiness, lack of reading comprehension, and understanding of the topic right up front!

Have a nice weekend.
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      03-07-2020, 10:46 AM   #122
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Not very new, but I think it hasn't been posted yet: Rendering of a possible production version (mirros, wheels, logo) of the i4, though I think they got the hoodline wrong: https://insideevs.com/news/401748/bm...ion-rendering/
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      03-10-2020, 01:58 PM   #123
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I'm also in the camp that definition of luxury is a moot point.
Take a look at this Bloomberg survey of 5000 Tesla buyers.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...evolution.html

1. It seems that all carmakers get hit - Honda, Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc.
2. People do complain about the build quality of their Tesla Model 3 but overall they are happy and tend to recommend it to others.
3. The lower end BMW (3/4 series), Audi (A4), Mercedes (C Class) are particularly vulnerable to buyers jumping to a Tesla.

So regardless of what the definition of "luxury" is the impact on the vehicle market as a whole has been significant.
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      08-01-2020, 08:35 AM   #124
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I thought that the i4 was going to share the same body as the G26 which would be the new 4GC. Also, assumed that this would be a hatchback like the old 4GC. Have seen no talk of a hatch on this model, so previous assumption seems wrong. Looks like BMW will push buyers towards the iX3 if they want hatch/storage. Can anyone confirm this?
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      08-01-2020, 02:06 PM   #125
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I thought that the i4 was going to share the same body as the G26 which would be the new 4GC. Also, assumed that this would be a hatchback like the old 4GC. Have seen no talk of a hatch on this model, so previous assumption seems wrong. Looks like BMW will push buyers towards the iX3 if they want hatch/storage. Can anyone confirm this?
All I have read and seen confirms a 4 door hatchback. What makes you think otherwise? The iX3 has been dropped for the US due to beneath-expectation capabilities and dealer discontent.
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      09-20-2020, 10:27 AM   #126
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All I have read and seen confirms a 4 door hatchback. What makes you think otherwise? The iX3 has been dropped for the US due to beneath-expectation capabilities and dealer discontent.
I have asked this question on this forum before and have never gotten an answer. Also, searching available info has never confirmed the hatch. If there is to be one, great, but I just have yet to see any mention of it.
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