Bimmerpost
3
/
4 Series
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Technical Topics B48 4-Cylinder Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications Do the 320i and 330i have the same engine?

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-15-2019, 02:26 PM   #1
imagineranger
Registered
9
Rep
4
Posts

Drives: M3 GTR
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Whitechapel

iTrader: (0)

Question Do the 320i and 330i have the same engine?

I noticed that G20 320i and 330i both have B48B20B engine equipped. Does that mean their engines have totally the same parts and just tuned for different powers?
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2019, 11:33 PM   #2
sspdw
Private First Class
71
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: bmw m140
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: sweden

iTrader: (0)

Im pretty sure its differences, pistons for a example.
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2019, 02:29 PM   #3
imagineranger
Registered
9
Rep
4
Posts

Drives: M3 GTR
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Whitechapel

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
Im pretty sure its differences, pistons for a example.
but parts catalog indicates their pistons are same, as well as other parts which are exclusive to the engine marked as B48D.
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2019, 03:30 PM   #4
sspdw
Private First Class
71
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: bmw m140
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagineranger View Post
but parts catalog indicates their pistons are same, as well as other parts which are exclusive to the engine marked as B48D.
I could be wrong but im pretty sure 20i has higher compression ratio 11:1 vs 10.2:1
Appreciate 1
iviegatron2527.00
      06-24-2019, 12:32 PM   #5
SteveinArizona
Brigadier General
United_States
3086
Rep
4,210
Posts

Drives: BMW 530e
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Greater Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Same engine, different tuning and some different parts.
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2019, 01:14 PM   #6
mbanck
Captain
690
Rep
803
Posts

Drives: BMW E46 320ci, BMW F34 330dx
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Munich, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagineranger View Post
but parts catalog indicates their pistons are same, as well as other parts which are exclusive to the engine marked as B48D.
For spare part efficiency, BMW keeps the top-line replacements parts on the shelves even for the low-end engines, but those engines are made out of lesser quality materials at the factory.

Also, I guess some of the auxiliary parts like the turbo are (vastly) different.
Appreciate 0
      06-24-2019, 04:00 PM   #7
Calamari
First Lieutenant
209
Rep
310
Posts

Drives: 2024 G21 330d, 2008 E87 118i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Croatia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
For spare part efficiency, BMW keeps the top-line replacements parts on the shelves even for the low-end engines, but those engines are made out of lesser quality materials at the factory.

Also, I guess some of the auxiliary parts like the turbo are (vastly) different.
Correct. The same approach is used on the 2,0 diesel engine range (16d, 18d, 20d, 25d).
Appreciate 0
      06-25-2019, 09:48 AM   #8
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

The corporate engine for CLAR-based *20i products is now the B48B20M1 and the corporate engine for *30i products is now the B48B20O1.

I don't know the differences between the two, but those are definitely the engines being used in the G20 320i and G20 330i respectively.
Appreciate 2
J3LLY0.00
VipinLJ1936.50
      06-25-2019, 09:48 AM   #9
sspdw
Private First Class
71
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: bmw m140
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: sweden

iTrader: (0)

Im seeing different sources saying 11:1 on 20i and 10,2:1 on 30i. But realoem showing the same pistons. The m135 2.0l b48 has 9,6:1.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2020, 05:25 AM   #10
Mandarin Man
Mandarin Man
Netherlands
28
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: 2020 330i G20 M Sport
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Amsterdam

iTrader: (0)

G20 320i & 330i same engine? Not quite...

Was at the dealer last week, got chatting to the service manager and he told me a couple of pieces of info I didn't know which might be useful to someone.

#1 I've read in a few places that the engine in the G20 320i and 330i is exactly the same, it's just the ECU that determines the different outputs. Not true according to service guy; the 320i engine doesn't have the piston head cooling of the 330i. So while the 320i ECU can be remapped, there's a much higher chance of blowing the engine.

#2 I've also read that coding etc is not traceable by the dealer as long as it's returned back to factory values before servicing etc. Again not true according to service guy. The BMW code stack is checksummed at the factory and after each service, and although they couldn't necessarily tell *which* values had been modified, they can definitely see that *some* have (because the checksum is different) - and this will most definitely invalidate drivetrain warranty repairs, and probably the insurance as well (at least in NL).

I thought maybe valuable to post here as it's contrary to a number of posts I've read.
__________________
Current: 2020 330i G20 ///M Sport. Portimao Blue, Vernasca Oyster, All the Things.
History:
2013 Mini Countryman JCW R60
2004 Mini Cooper S R53
1976 Ford Escort MkI 1098cc dressed up like a Mexico
Appreciate 6
Glaede49.50
VipinLJ1936.50
A6bullet336.00
eddiehaug742.50
      01-28-2020, 07:56 AM   #11
TheRetroGuy
Second Lieutenant
United_States
148
Rep
265
Posts

Drives: 2020 330i xDrive mSport
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandarin Man View Post
The BMW code stack is checksummed at the factory and after each service, and although they couldn't necessarily tell *which* values had been modified, they can definitely see that *some* have (because the checksum is different) - and this will most definitely invalidate drivetrain warranty repairs, and probably the insurance as well (at least in NL).

I thought maybe valuable to post here as it's contrary to a number of posts I've read.
As someone who has worked in the field of software engineering for more than 3 decades now, I can confirm this is par for the course.

For most products, (whether physically manufactured things like vehicles, to electronics, to purely software products) for the customer to apply their own "hacks and tweaks" to the product is a bit of a nightmare. The reason is that manufacturing quality is directly tied to consistency and reducing variance. When a customer "tweaks it to their liking", they usually produce a set of conditions that has not been through the normal QA process (unmanaged variance). This can produce tons of unintended side effects in any complex software system.

Side effects can be anything from extra labor cost diagnosing unusual edge case support incidents (cost of which needs to eventually be passed to customer), to reduced lifespan of the product (because it is operating outside of the tested parameters) which reflects poorly on the vendors reputation for quality. In the case of vehicles, it can potentially downgrade safety of the vehicle.

Not saying this to piss off the folks who like to tweak their cars -- I do understand the appeal. Just saying there is a VERY good reason why customer modification of a product often voids warranty. Even seemingly innocuous changes like custom air filters or non-manufacturer spec wheel sizes can introduce changes to a vehicle that were not tested by the manufacturer.

Last edited by TheRetroGuy; 01-28-2020 at 05:34 PM..
Appreciate 2
      01-28-2020, 10:04 AM   #12
-Nick
Second Lieutenant
-Nick's Avatar
United Kingdom
83
Rep
201
Posts

Drives: G20 330e
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

330i has B48B20B

320i has B48B20A

Different engine

Appreciate 1
Calamari208.50
      01-30-2020, 06:34 AM   #13
sddz6269
Private
China
32
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: BMW G20 325i
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Shanghai, China

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Nick View Post
330i has B48B20B

320i has B48B20A

Different engine

In China, 320i also has B48B20B.
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2020, 04:32 PM   #14
vatdim
New Member
14
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: E34 525i
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: EU

iTrader: (0)

Hello guys, it's my first post here, but I couldn't help but note this is all really weird. When checking around parts databases, here is what I found with respect to B48 320i & 330i engines:

1) First off, there seem to be two variants of the 320i. Bimmercat calls them B48C and B48D. B48C appears to have the B48B20A engine:



Note how it says "till 02.2020"? Not sure if that means the part's production ended in 02.2020 or the particular engine you may order today will have been produced up to that period. If someone has more experience with the database, please let us know.

B48D, however, appears to feature the B48B20B engine:



2) Another thing I've tried is to compare values in RealOEM. I've picked the most recent EU version of the 320i and the 330i, respectively 03 / 2019. These are the results:





So, basically, as per RealOEM, there is no difference between the engines in the Euro 320i and 330i produced in 03/19?

3) Returning to Bimmercat, I took a look at what cars were equipped with each engine.

According to this B48C was applied in the G20 320i until 02.2020, as well as in the G21 until 02.2020.



The B48D was applied in the G20 320i, as well as in the G20 330i and the G21 330i.



The pistons featured in both engines are different, with respective part numbers being 11258678931 and 11258678934.

In the end, I'm not sure what to make of all this. Is it possible that the engines were only different in the start of production, utilising old stock and all, and now they are using the same engine in both cars, with the only difference being boost? If the pistons are the same, I'm having a hard time believing that the CR is any different despite the press release covering the initial specs a year ago.

If the above is true, what's the point in buying a 330i vs tuning a 320i? And what about the new 318i which appears as a further detuned 320i?
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2020, 09:15 AM   #15
SteveinArizona
Brigadier General
United_States
3086
Rep
4,210
Posts

Drives: BMW 530e
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Greater Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

My understanding is that the engine blocks are identical but that some of the rest of the components may vary.
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2020, 02:26 PM   #16
vatdim
New Member
14
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: E34 525i
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: EU

iTrader: (0)

But what are these differing components then? As far as I see, the turbochargers are also the same:





You can check for yourself and see that the head, the head gasket and both cams are also identical.

To me it is starting to look like after the initial launch of the G20 BMW decided to have just one engine with identical components cover the entire range of trims (318i, 320 and 330i), with the only difference between them being the level of tune. This seemed a bit dull to me at first, but the economies of scale, as well as the opportunity for price discrimination (i.e. being able to sell basically the same product at different prices to different customers depending on their ability to pay) does make great economic sense.

Or do you guys think these databases just can't be trusted?
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 1
g20beam467.50
      04-30-2020, 06:44 AM   #17
Misko_Hryzko
New Member
Misko_Hryzko's Avatar
23
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: BMW 320i (G20)
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW 320i  [0.00]
I'd like to understand difference between 320i and 330i engines as well.
I test drove 320i with engine B48D and I own 320iX with engine B48C. B48C doesn't have exhaust flap and has software without pops and burbles, see here: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=26090135

Can 330i owner hit the gas and take picture of Sport display please ? I am interested in maximum turbo boost pressure. Mine seems not be able to reach even 1 bar. I have MST Cold Air Intake. Unfortunately no measurement with stock intake.

Upgrade from 320i to 330i costs 10 000€ in Finland while in the rest of Europe it is around 3 000€. I find it not fair and that's why 320i was my choice.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Misko_Hryzko; 04-30-2020 at 08:17 AM..
Appreciate 1
g20beam467.50
      04-30-2020, 08:09 AM   #18
Misko_Hryzko
New Member
Misko_Hryzko's Avatar
23
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: BMW 320i (G20)
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW 320i  [0.00]
By comparing 320iX (B48C) and 330i (B48D) on RealOEM I found differences:
- engine block
- different turbo
- intake manifold system

The rest like heat management, cooling system, lubrication system, timing chain, belt drive etc. seems to be exactly the same.
I guess the biggest difference is the turbo boost pressure. From these pictures it looks like the biggest difference is not the turbo size but the outlet pipe diameter. The one in 330i has 4 separate chambers while one in 320i has 2 parallel ones. The diameter of these pipes are much bigger in 330i allowing for higher air flow and pressure.

So 320i (B48C) is not just de-tuned 330i (B48D). But 320i (not xDrive) manufactured before June 2019 had engine B48D (I tested one) with the same turbo as 330i today and that's why it looks like only de-tuned.
Attached Images
       

Last edited by Misko_Hryzko; 04-30-2020 at 09:22 AM..
Appreciate 2
hamera441.50
vatdim13.50
      05-04-2020, 06:12 AM   #19
Misko_Hryzko
New Member
Misko_Hryzko's Avatar
23
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: BMW 320i (G20)
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW 320i  [0.00]
A bit of research shown G20 with B48C engine has turbo charger with code 11658662071. Nobody is really offering this turbo yet. Older version 11658662070 was used in many BMW cars in the past. I found only visual difference on the air intake part.

For B48D engine (320i and 330i) is used turbo 11658662073 resp. 11659845815. Therefore I believe this 320i can be unlocked to 330i by ECU flash.

Here are pictures what I think is the limit for B48C. Exhaust gas enters the turbo's turbine through the inlet port which is significantly smaller for B48C. Not sure how much is this smaller port limiting turbo efficiency. I would assume in higher load when engine pushes the hardest the most exhaust gases are produced... my question for turbo experts would be how much Wastegate valve kicks into action and diverts exhaust gases to protect turbine even with small B48C's inlet ports when turbo boost enhanced (piggy bag / ECU flash). I don't think this is super limiting though
Attached Images
    

Last edited by Misko_Hryzko; 05-04-2020 at 06:47 AM..
Appreciate 1
vatdim13.50
      05-04-2020, 09:55 AM   #20
Rastlein
New Member
5
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: BMW 320i
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

The management of turbo gases is different between the B48D and the B48C. The first uses a watercooler and the other has intercooler. If you look at the engine you will see that in the B48D there is an extra tank for the coolant of the watercooler.
Appreciate 1
      05-04-2020, 05:14 PM   #21
mrjonesg20
New Member
United_States
0
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: g20 330i M sport sunset orange
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Us

iTrader: (0)

In the US 330i has the B46B & 320i has the B48B

"Quote from G20Beam" Let's clear this up once and for all. My source is automobile-catalog, pretty sure they are 99% accurate.

Just look at the screenshot below. I learned that apparently the G20 330i in both EU and US/NA both have the B46B20. For sake of extra comparison to authenticate the info and to make sure it isn't a mistake, the G20 320i has the B48B20. This is very interesting, it means there isn't a difference between EU and NA cars in the latest generation of G20 330i's. However, it's interesting to note that the US spec G20 weighs more than the EU spec G20. This may be due to the SULEV parts. I have made a mistake and that is relying on Wikipedia. On Wikipedia, the data suggests that the B46B20 has the same 11:1 compression ratio, but it has a 10.2:1 compression ratio. The new B58B30 in the M340i also has the same 10.2:1 compression ratio. The cylinder bore and stroke is also identical in both B46B20 and B58B30.

It is also important to note that the G20's B48B20 is different from the F30's B48B20. The G20's engine is revised, and the outputs as well as compression ratios are completely different. I assume the stats that some of you and I have found, are all incorrect. Those stats are correct for the F30's B48B20 but not for the G20. Please refer to attachments for reference.
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2020, 03:04 AM   #22
Misko_Hryzko
New Member
Misko_Hryzko's Avatar
23
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: BMW 320i (G20)
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW 320i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjonesg20 View Post
"Quote from G20Beam" Let's clear this up once and for all. My source is automobile-catalog, pretty sure they are 99% accurate.

Just look at the screenshot below. I learned that apparently the G20 330i in both EU and US/NA both have the B46B20. For sake of extra comparison to authenticate the info and to make sure it isn't a mistake, the G20 320i has the B48B20. This is very interesting, it means there isn't a difference between EU and NA cars in the latest generation of G20 330i's. However, it's interesting to note that the US spec G20 weighs more than the EU spec G20. This may be due to the SULEV parts. I have made a mistake and that is relying on Wikipedia. On Wikipedia, the data suggests that the B46B20 has the same 11:1 compression ratio, but it has a 10.2:1 compression ratio. The new B58B30 in the M340i also has the same 10.2:1 compression ratio. The cylinder bore and stroke is also identical in both B46B20 and B58B30.

It is also important to note that the G20's B48B20 is different from the F30's B48B20. The G20's engine is revised, and the outputs as well as compression ratios are completely different. I assume the stats that some of you and I have found, are all incorrect. Those stats are correct for the F30's B48B20 but not for the G20. Please refer to attachments for reference.
I don't think automobile-catalog is 99% accurate.
I found this analogy:
B48B20A = B48C (320iX and since 06/2019 320i)
B48B20B = B48D (320i until 06/2019, 330i and 330iX in EU)
B46B20B = B46B (330i and 330iX in NA and until 09/2018 also in EU)
I trust realoem and bimmercat more.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:11 PM.




g20
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST