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      06-24-2019, 05:57 AM   #23
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Only people entitle to Reparations right now are the white farmers in Africa being murder and forcible evicted from their land by a race driven government.
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      06-24-2019, 06:04 AM   #24
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Lynching is still allowed?

Nonsense, as usual.
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      06-24-2019, 08:18 AM   #25
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Let's also remember that blacks in Africa sold those slaves to slave traders. So lets get restitution from black Africans
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      06-24-2019, 08:26 AM   #26
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Ok so my takeaway from the responses, thus far, is that there aren't any people, at least on this forum, who are pro reparations. Even from the people who support the candidates that seemingly espouse reparations publicly, they seem to admit that it's likely pandering for the black vote?
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      06-24-2019, 08:33 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
Ok so my takeaway from the responses, thus far, is that there aren't any people, at least on this forum, who are pro reparations. Even from the people who support the candidates that seemingly espouse reparations publicly, they seem to admit that it's likely pandering for the black vote?
You would be correct.

Policy ideas like this are not to be taken seriously, and should be met with one response:

Ridicule.
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      06-24-2019, 08:42 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
Ok so my takeaway from the responses, thus far, is that there aren't any people, at least on this forum, who are pro reparations. Even from the people who support the candidates that seemingly espouse reparations publicly, they seem to admit that it's likely pandering for the black vote?
^This.

In addition, there are so many variables that would just open tons of cans of worms.

The majority of Americans who are 'black' are quite rare. Most are mixed at least some degree with Caucasians over the generations. For someone who is half black and half white - does he get reparations? Does he owe some too because of his whiteness? What about the blacks who were granted slaves of their own? There were a surprising amount of those. Do their families pay or get reparations? What about all of those black Americans whose family immigrated over the last 100 years? They never had American slaves in their families. Do they get reparations? How do you prove this? What about all the black Americans that came in from the Caribbean Islands? They were never slaves here in America. Do we deny them reparations?

What if, what if, what if?
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      06-24-2019, 08:42 AM   #29
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This.

COLEMAN HUGHES:
"Black people donít need another apology. We need safer neighborhoods and better schools. We need a less punitive criminal justice system. We need affordable health care. And none of these things can be achieved through reparations for slavery...

Reparations by definition are only given to victims, so the moment you give me reparations, youíve made me into a victim without my consent. Not just that, youíve made 1/3 of black Americans who poll against reparations into victims without their consent, and black Americans have fought too long for the right to define themselves to be spoken for in such a condescending manner."
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      06-24-2019, 10:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
^This.

In addition, there are so many variables that would just open tons of cans of worms.

The majority of Americans who are 'black' are quite rare. Most are mixed at least some degree with Caucasians over the generations. For someone who is half black and half white - does he get reparations? Does he owe some too because of his whiteness? What about the blacks who were granted slaves of their own? There were a surprising amount of those. Do their families pay or get reparations? What about all of those black Americans whose family immigrated over the last 100 years? They never had American slaves in their families. Do they get reparations? How do you prove this? What about all the black Americans that came in from the Caribbean Islands? They were never slaves here in America. Do we deny them reparations?

What if, what if, what if?
Good points right there. Some more points to ponder.. The majority of slaves were shipped to plantations in South America, predominately Brazil and the Caribbean Islands... Do we owe these people as well because I don't see Bolsonaro passing a reparations bill any time soon?

Who pays for this? Only a handful of European countries participated in colonization and the slave trade. So should the US and all countries that profited from this pay? I mean you cannot say that it would be fair to have countries and people that had nothing to do with this have to pay.

How does the money get divided up? Do we pay individual black people based on shade of skin? Do we put the money into the hands of some utterly useless government agency or inept UN? The money will of course be spent on idiotic projects that in no way help the people that they are supposed to.

Then of course we got the Ottoman Slave Trade. The left tends to be very silent about the Arab slave trade which lasted hundreds of years and enslaved both whites and black. So when it Ukraine getting their reparations form Ankara?

It is mind boggling how out of touch with reality liberal progressive democrats are and how idiotic this idea is.
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      06-24-2019, 02:03 PM   #31
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      06-24-2019, 04:39 PM   #32
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Today Sen. Warren proposed reparations for gays.

This whole concept of reparations will eat itself to death. It's fun to watch though.
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      06-24-2019, 04:57 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Today Sen. Warren proposed reparations for gays.

This whole concept of reparations will eat itself to death. It's fun to watch though.
Ah yes for the gay slave trade of 1725, when the Europeans wiped out the Rainbow Brigade. The remaining forces were made slaves by European clothing designers.
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      06-24-2019, 05:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Today Sen. Warren proposed reparations for gays.

This whole concept of reparations will eat itself to death. It's fun to watch though.
Reparations for slavery (a soul-crushing, family-destroying, multigenerational murderous culture) is bad enough. Reparations for a gays (people indistinguishable from the general population but by personal behavior) is absolutely insane.

Someone close the door and turn off the lights when they close the door on the grand experiment of America.

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      06-24-2019, 05:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Reparations for slavery (a soul-crushing, family-destroying, multigenerational murderous culture) is bad enough. Reparations for a gays (people indistinguishable from the general population but by personal behavior) is absolutely insane.

Someone close the door and turn off the lights when they close the door on the grand experiment of America.

Cheers-mk
Long story short, the dems are so desperate for votes that they are now openly bribing blacks and gays for votes.
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      06-24-2019, 09:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
This.

COLEMAN HUGHES:
"Black people don’t need another apology. We need safer neighborhoods and better schools. We need a less punitive criminal justice system. We need affordable health care. And none of these things can be achieved through reparations for slavery...

Reparations by definition are only given to victims, so the moment you give me reparations, you’ve made me into a victim without my consent. Not just that, you’ve made 1/3 of black Americans who poll against reparations into victims without their consent, and black Americans have fought too long for the right to define themselves to be spoken for in such a condescending manner."
Makes good points but I take particular issue with this, he wants safer neighborhoods yet his people are the cause of making his stomping grounds less safe and then he calls for less punitive criminal justice. Well Cole, you can’t have it both ways, either you want your bad guys in prisons and have peace for your law abiding families or you want revolving door justice which most of the dems now advocate where felons are coddled and released back into society long before they should be. You need to figure out which is more important to you Mr Hughes.
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      06-24-2019, 10:37 PM   #37
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To play devil's advocate and to sprinkle a little bit of history upon some of you, please refer to Andrew Johnson and "40 acres and a Mule". These are the "reparations" which were taken away by that ******

You might also want to read about the Black Hills, the depression, our country's thirst for gold and the violation of those treaties with the Sioux circa 1870's.
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      06-25-2019, 07:30 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Makes good points but I take particular issue with this, he wants safer neighborhoods yet his people are the cause of making his stomping grounds less safe and then he calls for less punitive criminal justice. Well Cole, you canít have it both ways, either you want your bad guys in prisons and have peace for your law abiding families or you want revolving door justice which most of the dems now advocate where felons are coddled and released back into society long before they should be. You need to figure out which is more important to you Mr Hughes.
In Cole's defense, I believe he is calling for a reduction in harsh sentences for drug related crimes that didn't involve violence and a decrease in the punitive prison setups we currently have that just make everything worse.

When someone gets arrested at age 19 for breaking into a store at night and robbing it, this is a serious crime and deserves punishment. The current sentencing, however, of 5-10 years in a prison where they are surrounded by the worst scoundrels in the country and then released with no hope of meaningful employment isn't the answer. Cracking down on the gang culture inside prison and really working to get younger folks out of the cycles of criminal activity could go a long way to making the cities safer. Some criminals are legit bad dudes, but many just grow up in that life and don't know anything better and are always told they are shit. If they spend 5 years in jail and have folks who really care help them get an education, a skill, or a trade, and then are able to perform some sort of service after to prove they want to be better - they could have an opportunity to move out of that life and it's one less criminal on the streets.
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      06-25-2019, 08:23 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
In Cole's defense, I believe he is calling for a reduction in harsh sentences for drug related crimes that didn't involve violence and a decrease in the punitive prison setups we currently have that just make everything worse.

When someone gets arrested at age 19 for breaking into a store at night and robbing it, this is a serious crime and deserves punishment. The current sentencing, however, of 5-10 years in a prison where they are surrounded by the worst scoundrels in the country and then released with no hope of meaningful employment isn't the answer. Cracking down on the gang culture inside prison and really working to get younger folks out of the cycles of criminal activity could go a long way to making the cities safer. Some criminals are legit bad dudes, but many just grow up in that life and don't know anything better and are always told they are shit. If they spend 5 years in jail and have folks who really care help them get an education, a skill, or a trade, and then are able to perform some sort of service after to prove they want to be better - they could have an opportunity to move out of that life and it's one less criminal on the streets.
I donít think any kid is getting 5-10 for a B&E. Most likely a misdemeanor with probation. Iím not taking about some kids stupid kid decision.
Donít think weíre talking about some 19 year old student selling an ounce of weed here to a classmate. Go to any big city in the US or most towns across the land and coke, speed, dust, smack are far to easy to get. Hard Drugs have always been a scourge on the land but itís getting much worse. My friends 21 year old killed died of a laced heroin OD last year and similar stories are prevalent in the news nationwide. OD deaths are at record levels and increasing.
Gangs are getting more and more violent and innocents are getting in the crossfire daily. MS13 is in the news where I live and theyíve been hacking to death good kids not involved in gang activity for no reason. Thatís an extreme but Iím talking about really bad dudes.

Most of these guys are not first time offenders but have rap sheets as long as your arm. Many make no effort to go to school or learn a trade, they want to make fast, easy cash on the street and are willing to pay the price of going to prison. Many citizens might say to themselves that the money might be nice but the cost is too high, not most hardened criminals. Itís part of the job description.

There are exceptions to every rule but there are far to many who are committed to life of crime for the remainder of their lives. Most DAís and Judges know this and with prisons over capacity in many jurisdictions and they are under much pressure to not cram more into the system that donít need to be there and they give short sentences, probation or drop charges on minor crimes. Thereís not a lot of room at the inn.
Cracking down on prison gangs activity and trying to turn many of these bad people into law abiding, good citizens is somewhat of a fantasy. Many will not nor willing to change. Regardless of race, white, black or brown most have been corrupted since infancy by their own families and itís their normal way of life. There are rare exceptions but in the big picture success is minuscule.
Iím tired of liberal Ďjusticeí where hugs donít improve things it makes it worse for everyone who plays by the rules.
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      06-25-2019, 08:29 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
I don’t think any kid is getting 5-10 for a B&E. Most likely a misdemeanor with probation. I’m not taking about some kids stupid kid decision.
Don’t think we’re talking about some 19 year old student selling an ounce of weed here to a classmate. Go to any big city in the US or most towns across the land and coke, speed, dust, smack are far to easy to get. Hard Drugs have always been a scourge on the land but it’s getting much worse. My friends 21 year old killed died of a laced heroin OD last year and similar stories are prevalent in the news nationwide. OD deaths are at record levels and increasing.
Gangs are getting more and more violent and innocents are getting in the crossfire daily. MS13 is in the news where I live and they’ve been hacking to death good kids not involved in gang activity for no reason. That’s an extreme but I’m talking about really bad dudes.

Most of these guys are not first time offenders but have rap sheets as long as your arm. Many make no effort to go to school or learn a trade, they want to make fast, easy cash on the street and are willing to pay the price of going to prison. Many citizens might say to themselves that the money might be nice but the cost is too high, not most hardened criminals. It’s part of the job description.

There are exceptions to every rule but there are far to many who are committed to life of crime for the remainder of their lives. Most DA’s and Judges know this and with prisons over capacity in many jurisdictions and they are under much pressure to not cram more into the system that don’t need to be there and they give short sentences, probation or drop charges on minor crimes. There’s not a lot of room at the inn.
Cracking down on prison gangs activity and trying to turn many of these bad people into law abiding, good citizens is somewhat of a fantasy. Many will not nor willing to change. Regardless of race, white, black or brown most have been corrupted since infancy by their own families and it’s their normal way of life. There are rare exceptions but in the big picture success is minuscule.
I’m tired of liberal ‘justice’ where hugs don’t improve things it makes it worse for everyone who plays by the rules.

Again - I don't disagree that many of those being incarcerated fit the mold you describe. The problem, however, is that many also do not and we have a 'one size fits all' prison system.

Even if a criminal fits your mold described above - 10 arrests, looking for a fast buck, slinging crack on the street with a gun on the hip. Gets popped and beats up the cop arresting him and so on. Gets 5 years in prison.

Okay - now what?

5 years later, he gets out. Has a leash on him via probation/payroll that is just itching to put him back in jail. He can't get a job because the law says he has to tell everyone he is a felon. No income or very low income. No skills and no education. The last 5 years of his life were surrounded by the worst people on earth and had the world telling him he will always be shit.

What do you think he is going to end up doing? Breaking the law again and back in jail.

How does this help him or help society at large?

I am well aware of how our justice system works. My step father was the chief of police in the town I grew up in. There are bad dudes that deserve a harsh punishment, but many could use rehabilitation as well. The way our current correctional facilities operate, once inside - the convict will likely never be able to be a functioning member of society again. This doesn't help our country, it makes it worse.
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      06-25-2019, 09:02 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Again - I don't disagree that many of those being incarcerated fit the mold you describe. The problem, however, is that many also do not and we have a 'one size fits all' prison system.

Even if a criminal fits your mold described above - 10 arrests, looking for a fast buck, slinging crack on the street with a gun on the hip. Gets popped and beats up the cop arresting him and so on. Gets 5 years in prison.

Okay - now what?

5 years later, he gets out. Has a leash on him via probation/payroll that is just itching to put him back in jail. He can't get a job because the law says he has to tell everyone he is a felon. No income or very low income. No skills and no education. The last 5 years of his life were surrounded by the worst people on earth and had the world telling him he will always be shit.

What do you think he is going to end up doing? Breaking the law again and back in jail.

How does this help him or help society at large?

I am well aware of how our justice system works. My step father was the chief of police in the town I grew up in. There are bad dudes that deserve a harsh punishment, but many could use rehabilitation as well. The way our current correctional facilities operate, once inside - the convict will likely never be able to be a functioning member of society again. This doesn't help our country, it makes it worse.
Your hypothetical rock seller with 10 arrests, gun on hip assaulting an officer is going to get out of prison and about 9 times out of 10 is going to go right back to doing what he was doing and most even up the ante and move on to bigger and better things like killing cops or civilians instead of going back to the pen. Most cops call that a career, dangerous criminal.

As I said in my earlier post, far to many have it ingrained early in development and it’s a normal way of life, habitual offenders incapable of rehab. Can’t help but think of the Frog and Scorpion fable, it just does what it does regardless. Doesn’t help our country to have multiple crime repeat offenders selling hard drugs, illegally carrying guns, beating up P.O.’s walking the streets. You can believe what you like but I don't buy it. Lets agree to disagree.
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      06-25-2019, 09:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Your hypothetical rock seller with 10 arrests, gun on hip assaulting an officer is going to get out of prison and about 9 times out of 10 is going to go right back to doing what he was doing...
Exactly - and don't you think our punitive justice system and inability to find a way out once already on that path contributes to this? At least to some degree?

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Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
As I said in my earlier post, far too many have it ingrained early in development and itís a normal way of life, habitual offenders incapable of rehab.
Again - why do you think that is? With no hope for a future after starting down this path, is there logic to assume that at least contributes to the life of crime? Who is to say they are incapable of rehab if no one has ever tried? That is my point. Sure - if you try a few times and nothing works, then give up - fine. But to never even bother to try? We are a nation built on Christian values and it should be in our hearts to at least attempt to try and correct negative behavior instead of just giving up.

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Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Doesnít help our country to have multiple crime repeat offenders selling hard drugs, illegally carrying guns, beating up P.O.ís walking the streets. You can believe what you like but I don't buy it. Lets agree to disagree.
By this notion, then, why let them out at all? If you get arrested for selling hard drugs, carrying a firearm and beating up cops - should it just be a life sentence no payroll? I'm actually okay with this if it can be proven there is no hope for rehabilitation. It's the "lock 'em up for a decade then let them loose with no hope of finding a better life so they go right back into the system again" that is the problem.

I don't agree with the liberal mindset of trying to make every criminal cozy and happy and that they will go and never do bad again. That's horseshit. But to say that our current system isn't terribly flawed is just lying to yourself.
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      06-25-2019, 10:59 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Exactly - and don't you think our punitive justice system and inability to find a way out once already on that path contributes to this? At least to some degree?



Again - why do you think that is? With no hope for a future after starting down this path, is there logic to assume that at least contributes to the life of crime? Who is to say they are incapable of rehab if no one has ever tried? That is my point. Sure - if you try a few times and nothing works, then give up - fine. But to never even bother to try? We are a nation built on Christian values and it should be in our hearts to at least attempt to try and correct negative behavior instead of just giving up.



By this notion, then, why let them out at all? If you get arrested for selling hard drugs, carrying a firearm and beating up cops - should it just be a life sentence no payroll? I'm actually okay with this if it can be proven there is no hope for rehabilitation. It's the "lock 'em up for a decade then let them loose with no hope of finding a better life so they go right back into the system again" that is the problem.

I don't agree with the liberal mindset of trying to make every criminal cozy and happy and that they will go and never do bad again. That's horseshit. But to say that our current system isn't terribly flawed is just lying to yourself.
Nothing’s perfect, out legal system has been trying for hundreds of years to rehabilitate bad actors, they’ve tried and are still trying to find new ways to turn real bad people into good ones. How’s that been working out? We have the highest incarceration rate in the first world with hard drug, murders and other serious felonies up to our eyeballs. I’m not saying give up but the scenario you posed about your habitual offender cop bashing rock dealer is one I’m not willing to keep on taking chances on. for whatever reasons and he needs to live with them for a long, long time in the pokey. The only future he’s likely to ruin is the average citizens going about their lives when they cross paths with him.
Im not inhuman and I say try and ‘save’ the ones who aren’t hardened yet but your drug seller isn’t a worthy candidate, he’s a scorpion. I didn’t say he should get life for his crimes but a very long sentence is justified. The less time on the streets the less people he will hurt.

Yes our system is flawed as you say but i say it’s mostly flawed because libs try to rehabilitate those who aren’t willing or able to change.
My wife works in a school district on the other side of tracks. Some real bad kids come out of there and on occasion when watching the news we see a story of bad crime and she tells me, I remember him. It’s not a good school, many of the parents are bad and the kids are usually worse because that’s the way it often seems to work but there are quite a few kids that swim against the current flowing downstream to oblivion and they do extremely well and are great people. It’s a path people take early in life, they make the choices in what their future holds.

The slinger in your story you want to help and a 5 year sentence is too severe for violent crime has chosen his path numerous times and chose wrong at least ten times, real wrong. Let him live with his decisions, I don’t want my kids or wife to come in contact with him anywhere nor does any parent or husband.

You come up with something that actually works more then a minuscule amount of the time but guess what, it’s been tried before and failed. We all watch it on the news every single day and many of us have first hand knowledge ourselves of dangerous men out and about when they shouldn’t be and while we debate here, men who should be in prison right now but aren’t are committing violent crimes against innocents because some say he deserves more chances.
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      06-25-2019, 11:17 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Nothingís perfect, out legal system has been trying for hundreds of years to rehabilitate bad actors, theyíve tried and are still trying to find new ways to turn real bad people into good ones. Howís that been working out? We have the highest incarceration rate in the first world with hard drug, murders and other serious felonies up to our eyeballs. Iím not saying give up but the scenario you posed about your habitual offender cop bashing rock dealer is one Iím not willing to keep on taking chances on. for whatever reasons and he needs to live with them for a long, long time in the pokey. The only future heís likely to ruin is the average citizens going about their lives when they cross paths with him.
Im not inhuman and I say try and Ďsaveí the ones who arenít hardened yet but your drug seller isnít a worthy candidate, heís a scorpion. I didnít say he should get life for his crimes but a very long sentence is justified. The less time on the streets the less people he will hurt.

Yes our system is flawed as you say but i say itís mostly flawed because libs try to rehabilitate those who arenít willing or able to change.
My wife works in a school district on the other side of tracks. Some real bad kids come out of there and on occasion when watching the news we see a story of bad crime and she tells me, I remember him. Itís not a good school, many of the parents are bad and the kids are usually worse because thatís the way it often seems to work but there are quite a few kids that swim against the current flowing downstream to oblivion and they do extremely well and are great people. Itís a path people take early in life, they make the choices in what their future holds.

The slinger in your story you want to help and a 5 year sentence is too severe for violent crime has chosen his path numerous times and chose wrong at least ten times, real wrong. Let him live with his decisions, I donít want my kids or wife to come in contact with him anywhere nor does any parent or husband.

You come up with something that actually works more then a minuscule amount of the time but guess what, itís been tried before and failed. We all watch it on the news every single day and many of us have first hand knowledge ourselves of dangerous men out and about when they shouldnít be and while we debate here, men who should be in prison right now but arenít are committing violent crimes against innocents because some say he deserves more chances.
Watch the whole video. It talks about judges in Chicago letting criminals walk, who then go out and commit more crimes.

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