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      05-09-2019, 12:54 PM   #1849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Nice looking pair. My issues came down to dumb things. Rain rails existed for non sunroof cars, but they barely built any of those. My hot and cold air knob only worked at both extremes, but they could only offer a non M replacement, which seemed stupid. The rear license plate holder became a non existent part. Little things, but it got annoying.

I do wildly miss the steering feel of that thing. Such a perfect HPS setup, outside of non assisted setups, I've never felt better.
I suspect, that the Z3 M Coupes had a lot more of its own unique parts than the Z4 M Coupes. Everything aft of the A pillar on the Z3 M Coupe is different from the run of the mill Z3 Roadster. On the Z4 M, only the roof and hatches are unique, the bulkhead et al are actually all common parts with Z4 roadster (if I'm not mistaken). All the other underpinnings, except for the ECU, are all common parts.

Unlike the Z3 Coupe, where a skunk team of engineers at BMW dreamed up the scopes, the Z4 Coupe was actually a design exercise done by Magna Styer (sound familiar? Same company building the NEW Z4 and Yote.) to show BMW that a new Z4 Coupe can be assembled using mostly existing parts. Heck even run of the mill Z4 roadster rear quarter panels is basically hung on and interchangeable to the Z4 Coupe, and they're the same between the M and non-M.

All the new Zupra goodness, 2/3rd the price, in a 6 speed manual. None of the stuff you don't need (like fake vents that doesn't go anywhere).
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      05-09-2019, 06:01 PM   #1850
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      05-11-2019, 08:01 AM   #1851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
I am still wondering if there will be a market for this type of car - small 2 seater sport coupe. First, most millennials are into CUV, hybrid and electrics. Secondly for those who want some sport coupe performance like the Supra they can get that it in any typical 2+2 two doors such as the 435 or C class coupe with almost the same performance as the Supra but in a much more practical configuration - more seatings and bigger trunks. Thirdly, for the 1980's generation who were into RX7 and the likes, well they are probably too old now. Also the Supra is not cheap. If it were in the 40K range, I imagine it would have some success.
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Tell that to my neighbor. The guy got kids to feed. Not sure if he got time for the Supra.
Kids never stopped me. Actually some of the best memories my kids have and enjoy is me taking them for rides in the RX-7s. Just because you have kids, doesn’t mean you have to stop enjoying life the way you used to. Of course you have to adjust, but don’t adjust so much that you can’t share your life style with your kids. I’m 42 and I have 3 kids. 2 of them just left the nest. My youngest (8 years old) enjoys going out in the M4 as well.

Was considering the new Supra but this Supra is just the name slapped on a BMW. Besides, the wife got me the M4 as a retirement present so I was not going to complain.
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      05-11-2019, 10:40 AM   #1852
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      05-12-2019, 06:47 PM   #1853
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      05-12-2019, 09:19 PM   #1854
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      05-13-2019, 12:11 AM   #1855
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      05-13-2019, 01:42 AM   #1856
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its what i expected.

an upscale toyota 86. (not that there's anything wrong with that, I had one before trading in for an f30 and then f80 for a daily). But its not a supra.

A GTR had hype and legend, and it came back as a supercar killer with the R35. It lived up to all the hype. The supra is coming back as a 370z competitor. When it should be a GTR / NSX competitor
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      05-13-2019, 01:49 AM   #1857
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Common theme seems to be, it is one hell of a drivers car.
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      05-13-2019, 01:53 AM   #1858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
its what i expected.

an upscale toyota 86. (not that there's anything wrong with that, I had one before trading in for an f30 and then f80 for a daily). But its not a supra.

A GTR had hype and legend, and it came back as a supercar killer with the R35. It lived up to all the hype. The supra is coming back as a 370z competitor. When it should be a GTR / NSX competitor
Reading some of the reviews, it looks to be a 718 Cayman S competitor. It handles that good and has similar performance numbers.
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      05-13-2019, 02:05 AM   #1859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
its what i expected.

an upscale toyota 86. (not that there's anything wrong with that, I had one before trading in for an f30 and then f80 for a daily). But its not a supra.

A GTR had hype and legend, and it came back as a supercar killer with the R35. It lived up to all the hype. The supra is coming back as a 370z competitor. When it should be a GTR / NSX competitor
Let's not forget that the A40 and A60 were upscaled Celicas.

The Supra competed with cars like the 300ZX, 3000GT, and RX7. And before people jump in with "it was expensive in the 90s" comments, yes it was, and that was partly due to the rising yen and the exchange rate. The car was cheaper in it's homemarket and that's where they sold a majority of the A80s. 31,575 units to be exact compared to 11,446 units for the US.

Last edited by supra93; 05-13-2019 at 02:14 AM..
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      05-13-2019, 11:21 AM   #1860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Reading some of the reviews, it looks to be a 718 Cayman S competitor. It handles that good and has similar performance numbers.
the 86 was a boxster/cayman competitor. in fact chris harris did a review and he placed the 86 ahead of the 986 cayman and 370z.

the mkiv supra was a 911 competitor.


the new supra is a good car. but its not a supra. its like having a 340 m sport and saying you have an M car.
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      05-13-2019, 11:43 AM   #1861
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So here is another way of looking at it. For the US, the 3.0 Supra is the equivalent of the NA A80. I have been told by a number of people that the GRMN Supra will be the modern day TT A80. We're just going to have to wait around 2+ years for it, and to expect a price tag of around $70k-$80k+. But what about the 4 banger Zupra? That's just for the EU and Japan to sell to the mass / taxes and emissions regulations.
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      05-13-2019, 11:48 AM   #1862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
the 86 was a boxster/cayman competitor. in fact chris harris did a review and he placed the 86 ahead of the 986 cayman and 370z.

the mkiv supra was a 911 competitor.


the new supra is a good car. but its not a supra. its like having a 340 m sport and saying you have an M car.
No one shopping for a $30k 86 is going to even consider a $60k+ Cayman/Boxster and vice versa.
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      05-13-2019, 11:52 AM   #1863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
So here is another way of looking at it. For the US, the 3.0 Supra is the equivalent of the NA A80. I have been told by a number of people that the GRMN Supra will be the modern day TT A80. We're just going to have to wait around 2+ years for it, and to expect a price tag of around $70k-$80k+. But what about the 4 banger Zupra? That's just for the EU and Japan to sell to the mass / taxes and emissions regulations.
If this is true, I wonder what engine Toyota will put in a modern day TT A80. I don't see BMW allowing Toyota to have their new S58 but the S55 could be possible.
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      05-13-2019, 11:57 AM   #1864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
If this is true, I wonder what engine Toyota will put in a modern day TT A80. I don't see BMW allowing Toyota to have their new S58 but the S55 could be possible.
Good question. Nothing concrete that I have heard of, but there have been so many speculation from the S58, S55, Toyota heavy revised B58, and even to a Toyota in house drivetrain (most least likely imo). And of course this all depends on how well the current 3.0 Supra sells.

An off topic tidbit. In 97 Toyota was already in the early process of developing a new Supra. However, because of low sales from the A80 the project was quickly dropped. I recall rumors and reports at the time that it would have been pretty much a hard top reskin Lexus SC430 and offered in both V6 and V8.

Last edited by supra93; 05-13-2019 at 12:03 PM..
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      05-13-2019, 01:57 PM   #1865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
No one shopping for a $30k 86 is going to even consider a $60k+ Cayman/Boxster and vice versa.
no one shopping for a 180k 911 turbo back in 2010 would have considered a $80k GTR either. But the cars still ran neck and neck and had similar lap times. both 6 cylinder, awd, boosted, dct, 2+2.
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      05-13-2019, 02:18 PM   #1866
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An early clay model of the Supra without the fake vents on the door


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      05-13-2019, 03:24 PM   #1867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
no one shopping for a 180k 911 turbo back in 2010 would have considered a $80k GTR either. But the cars still ran neck and neck and had similar lap times. both 6 cylinder, awd, boosted, dct, 2+2.
Thanks for proving my point!
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      05-13-2019, 04:27 PM   #1868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
no one shopping for a 180k 911 turbo back in 2010 would have considered a $80k GTR either. But the cars still ran neck and neck and had similar lap times. both 6 cylinder, awd, boosted, dct, 2+2.
Couldn’t you compare A80/90 the same way? Both 6 cylinder, rwd, boosted, auto (lol)
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      05-13-2019, 06:00 PM   #1869
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I think the new Supra is a M2 competitor to a certain degree... at least for me. I almost this this comparison deserves it own thread.
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      05-13-2019, 07:13 PM   #1870
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How Stalled BMW Negotiations Nearly Killed The A90 Toyota Supra

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how...-toyota-supra/

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At the launch of the new A90 Toyota GR Supra, chief engineer Tetsuya Tada detailed the car's rocky start in life

17 years after the MkIV version went out of production, there is - at last - a new Toyota Supra. But early on in the joint venture between BMW and Toyota, which has also given us a new Z4, the odds were stacked against both cars. A well-timed change in management was key to the whole endeavour, as explained by Supra chief engineer Tetsuya Tada at the launch of the car in Madrid.

The A90 Toyota GR Supra’s story can be traced back to a phone call Tada-san received during the launch of the GT86 in May 2012. He was to be dispatch to BMW’s headquarters in Munich to discuss a collaboration.

“At that time nothing was specified about what car we’d be working on - there was nothing said about it being a sports car,” he said, adding, “It was just a feasibility study.”

Tada-san, however, already had in mind exactly what the potential project could be. “On my way to Munich on the plane, I distinctively understood that this was a message for me to make the new Supra”. For him, it was all about the engine. “The heritage of the Supra is the inline-six, and at that time the only manufacturer with a high-performance inline-six engine was BMW,” he said.

While launching GT86, it was clear to Tada-san that among dealers, fans, and many others, the appetite for a new Supra was huge. Joining forces with BMW was a way to quench the thirst.

“I had a good feeling about the meeting so on the way back I wrote a really easy-going report towards [Toyota] headquarters that said we might be able to do something because it was such a nice atmosphere,” he recalled, but concluded, “Boy, that was a mistake!”

A year into the negotiations, no progress had been made, leaving BMW and Toyota at an impasse. Tetsuya Tada had committed himself to making a “pure sports car” to succeed the MkIV Supra, but the then-development boss of BMW, Dr Herbert Diess, was doubtful about the business case.

While understanding Tada-san’s urge to make a new Supra, Diess was keen to steer him away from pure sports cars to more profitable options. The key moment came went Dr Diess left BMW to joining VW.

BMW management protocol meant Diess’ subordinates went too, with replacement Klaus Frölich bringing in his own team of people. “This change had been pivotal in making this car happen because the guys under Mr Frölich had been crazy car guys,” Tada-san said. “They really took on to what we were trying to achieve…This is when it [the project] turned to the better for us.”

From here, everything “progressed quickly”. It was soon decided that BMW would make a roadster and Toyota a coupe, inspired in part by Porsche having the Boxster and Cayman siblings in its range. BMW was going to gun for the Boxster, while Toyota’s target was the Cayman.

The pair were to be built on a new, joint platform with a very short wheelbase, a wide track and a low centre-of-gravity.

After BMW’s “extensive simulation work” showed that the intended dimensions would work, a 2-series based test mule with a shortened wheelbase and widened track dubbed ‘Full Runner’ was built. After significant testing all across Europe, the Z4/Supra in this form was given the go-ahead.

This set the platform and the “suspension elements” in stone, after which point all ties - design, R&D, the lot - were cut between BMW and Toyota, allowing the two parties to go their separate ways and create two different vehicles based on the same ingredients.

The resulting cars, the Z4 and the GR Supra, are finally here, but they almost never happened.
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