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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions M340i compared to past generations of the M3

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      06-20-2019, 10:30 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Mr Friese View Post
The M340 is very nice for what it is, but it is nowhere near M car territory and like others have said, BMW has no intentions of it being so.

M cars are about more than just 0-60, it's about the driving experience and how the car just feels "special". It's hard to explain really, but the M340 just doesn't have that "it" factor, so I won't even attempt to compare it to any M car past or present.

And just to clarify, I have test driven the M340 and thought it was great and would definitely pick it over an S4 or C43. But I would never consider it over an F8x or even a lightly used E9x.
First of all - you are driving a CS - the car twice as expensive as M340. Of course it is not going to feel as edgy and sharp as CS>

Second - what tires were on M340? a lot of people test drive them with 225 all season - not apples to apples. Find one with Pilot sport 4s with 255 in the back. If you can fined one with cooling pack - even better - you will have similar brake feel to your M3.

Coming from several M3s myself - with the above mentioned set up - M 340 does not give up much to M3. Put it this way - on some of the ramps i can go as fast as M3. Need to take M340 to the track to really give you an objective comparison. But day to day street driving - I chose M340 over M3. Plus Im not afraid to give it to my wife and daughter to drive (not worrying about Money shifts or 400 HP 2 wheel drive int he rain).
Since it is not giving up much in performance and has much better tech . It makes M3 look outdated. Here is what i gained vs M3

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- Assisted Pro (traffic jam) Fully automated Driving this is Huge use it every day in traffic
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      06-22-2019, 09:07 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Friese View Post
The M340 is very nice for what it is, but it is nowhere near M car territory and like others have said, BMW has no intentions of it being so.

M cars are about more than just 0-60, it's about the driving experience and how the car just feels "special". It's hard to explain really, but the M340 just doesn't have that "it" factor, so I won't even attempt to compare it to any M car past or present.

And just to clarify, I have test driven the M340 and thought it was great and would definitely pick it over an S4 or C43. But I would never consider it over an F8x or even a lightly used E9x.
How do you feel "special" when you can see yourself coming and going on an average day??

An M car is nice, and has a strong pedigree, but let's be honest the special feel is the mystique we've created in our heads... there's a lot of other options available in today's market.

For my needs I've chosen it over an F8x, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it for DD. Especially when it's wet out (3 months of on/off rain in Ohio), and I can get the power down with DSC off!!

And yes, I've turned some heads for now since it's new(not that I care).
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      06-22-2019, 10:55 AM   #47
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We are looking for a new vehicle for the wife and even though we are looking at the X3M40i our salesman advised us to test drive the M340I. We purchased our 2018 M5 (F90) from him and we traded our 2015 M3 (F80) that purchased new in July of 2014. We have had our M5 since August of 2018.

The M340i is a high optioned vehicle with an MSRP of 66K. It has the Adaptive M suspension and the cooling and high performance tire package. Tires were the Michelin PS4. But at a MSRP of 66k that is alot of coin to spend. I know you can reduce the options but we like all the bells and whistles.

Even though we have been without the M3 (F80) since August of 2018. The M340i was fun to drive but was not as engaging when driven spirited. I still remember testing driving the F80 and almost immediately it put a smile on my face.

I respect everyone's opinion but adding a tune has it consequences. On the M5 (F90) forum a member had an engine issue that had a DME tune. He flashed it back to stock and BMW was able to tell the vehicle was tuned and the warranty for the engine was declined. The cost for the repair is $59k. I never tuned my M3 (F80) or will I tune the M5 (F90). I do not fault those that do but you roll the dice and hope nothing happens.

While looks are not part of the performance equation I would go with a 2017 or 2018 used M3 (F80) over the M340i. This reminds me when we test drove a 2014 335i M Sport and it just did not excite us. Again what works for us may not work for others. We eventually went with a 2014 Corvette Z51 but quickly transitioned to the M3 (F80).

My wife's current vehicle is a 2012 GTI Autobahn with the DSG transmission. Prior to the GTI she had a 2002 BMW 525i (E39) with the Premium, sport package, and manual transmission. The 525i was purchased new and when we were looking at vehicles in 2011 she and I both felt the 535i M Sport was not as engaging to drive and became larger. As a note she feels our M5 is too big.

As you can see we made the transition from 2 door coupes to 4 door performance vehicles. Funny thing is I was going to get a new 911 S / GTS when transitioning from the M3 (F80) but after one test drive in the M5 it somehow made its way home with us. I do miss the 2012 Corvette Z06/Z07 such a raw performance vehicle.
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      06-22-2019, 12:14 PM   #48
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I test drove a new 2018 M3 competition and thought that with the deals they had on those I would get that instead of the M340. I liked the car but just felt it was a little too raw for me and my wife for a daily driver with the 20” wheels and the transmission. I test drove the M340 right after and for us it is just a better car for daily driver duties with our kids. I wanted to love the M3 and tried to talk myself into it but knew for 3 years the M340 would be better. Maybe when the new M3 comes out with AWD and I can get the base package I will change my mind.
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      06-24-2019, 03:18 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Patgilm View Post
I test drove a new 2018 M3 competition and thought that with the deals they had on those I would get that instead of the M340. I liked the car but just felt it was a little too raw for me and my wife for a daily driver with the 20" wheels and the transmission. I test drove the M340 right after and for us it is just a better car for daily driver duties with our kids. I wanted to love the M3 and tried to talk myself into it but knew for 3 years the M340 would be better. Maybe when the new M3 comes out with AWD and I can get the base package I will change my mind.
So AWD will make an ///M less raw?? I completely understand the logic behind your decision to pass on the ///M, but the reasoning behind considering the G80 is lost on me. That car will be raw as well.
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      06-24-2019, 03:20 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egrunt View Post
We are looking for a new vehicle for the wife and even though we are looking at the X3M40i our salesman advised us to test drive the M340I. We purchased our 2018 M5 (F90) from him and we traded our 2015 M3 (F80) that purchased new in July of 2014. We have had our M5 since August of 2018.

The M340i is a high optioned vehicle with an MSRP of 66K. It has the Adaptive M suspension and the cooling and high performance tire package. Tires were the Michelin PS4. But at a MSRP of 66k that is alot of coin to spend. I know you can reduce the options but we like all the bells and whistles.

Even though we have been without the M3 (F80) since August of 2018. The M340i was fun to drive but was not as engaging when driven spirited. I still remember testing driving the F80 and almost immediately it put a smile on my face.

I respect everyone's opinion but adding a tune has it consequences. On the M5 (F90) forum a member had an engine issue that had a DME tune. He flashed it back to stock and BMW was able to tell the vehicle was tuned and the warranty for the engine was declined. The cost for the repair is $59k. I never tuned my M3 (F80) or will I tune the M5 (F90). I do not fault those that do but you roll the dice and hope nothing happens.

While looks are not part of the performance equation I would go with a 2017 or 2018 used M3 (F80) over the M340i. This reminds me when we test drove a 2014 335i M Sport and it just did not excite us. Again what works for us may not work for others. We eventually went with a 2014 Corvette Z51 but quickly transitioned to the M3 (F80).

My wife's current vehicle is a 2012 GTI Autobahn with the DSG transmission. Prior to the GTI she had a 2002 BMW 525i (E39) with the Premium, sport package, and manual transmission. The 525i was purchased new and when we were looking at vehicles in 2011 she and I both felt the 535i M Sport was not as engaging to drive and became larger. As a note she feels our M5 is too big.

As you can see we made the transition from 2 door coupes to 4 door performance vehicles. Funny thing is I was going to get a new 911 S / GTS when transitioning from the M3 (F80) but after one test drive in the M5 it somehow made its way home with us. I do miss the 2012 Corvette Z06/Z07 such a raw performance vehicle.
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      06-24-2019, 10:33 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
So AWD will make an ///M less raw?? I completely understand the logic behind your decision to pass on the ///M, but the reasoning behind considering the G80 is lost on me. That car will be raw as well.
It will be but the DCT could be improved, the seats won't be competition seats with lumbar support, the wheels may not be 20", etc. Those were the reasons why, other than RWD, that the M340 was better for us. Does that make any sense or no?
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      06-25-2019, 07:19 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patgilm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
So AWD will make an ///M less raw?? I completely understand the logic behind your decision to pass on the ///M, but the reasoning behind considering the G80 is lost on me. That car will be raw as well.
It will be but the DCT could be improved, the seats won't be competition seats with lumbar support, the wheels may not be 20", etc. Those were the reasons why, other than RWD, that the M340 was better for us. Does that make any sense or no?
It only needs to make sense to you. I want an ivory interior even though my children like to eat chocolate ice cream cones in the back seat with their muddy feet propped up on the front seat backs. It works for me so who cares.
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      06-25-2019, 07:24 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egrunt View Post
We are looking for a new vehicle for the wife and even though we are looking at the X3M40i our salesman advised us to test drive the M340I. We purchased our 2018 M5 (F90) from him and we traded our 2015 M3 (F80) that purchased new in July of 2014. We have had our M5 since August of 2018.

The M340i is a high optioned vehicle with an MSRP of 66K. It has the Adaptive M suspension and the cooling and high performance tire package. Tires were the Michelin PS4. But at a MSRP of 66k that is alot of coin to spend. I know you can reduce the options but we like all the bells and whistles.

Even though we have been without the M3 (F80) since August of 2018. The M340i was fun to drive but was not as engaging when driven spirited. I still remember testing driving the F80 and almost immediately it put a smile on my face.

I respect everyone's opinion but adding a tune has it consequences. On the M5 (F90) forum a member had an engine issue that had a DME tune. He flashed it back to stock and BMW was able to tell the vehicle was tuned and the warranty for the engine was declined. The cost for the repair is $59k. I never tuned my M3 (F80) or will I tune the M5 (F90). I do not fault those that do but you roll the dice and hope nothing happens.

While looks are not part of the performance equation I would go with a 2017 or 2018 used M3 (F80) over the M340i. This reminds me when we test drove a 2014 335i M Sport and it just did not excite us. Again what works for us may not work for others. We eventually went with a 2014 Corvette Z51 but quickly transitioned to the M3 (F80).

My wife's current vehicle is a 2012 GTI Autobahn with the DSG transmission. Prior to the GTI she had a 2002 BMW 525i (E39) with the Premium, sport package, and manual transmission. The 525i was purchased new and when we were looking at vehicles in 2011 she and I both felt the 535i M Sport was not as engaging to drive and became larger. As a note she feels our M5 is too big.

As you can see we made the transition from 2 door coupes to 4 door performance vehicles. Funny thing is I was going to get a new 911 S / GTS when transitioning from the M3 (F80) but after one test drive in the M5 it somehow made its way home with us. I do miss the 2012 Corvette Z06/Z07 such a raw performance vehicle.
Egrunt it sounds like your wife needs an M2 comp...
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      06-26-2019, 12:38 AM   #54
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No doubt the M340i is a sweet car but it is in no way comparable to an F8 ( i mean in some ways yes, but no) .. sure there are some similarities, its still a BMW after all... but it just does not have the DNA that M cars have is what I'm saying.... not to mention that hideous grille =/

Dont take my word for it, take it from a BMW engineer...


also this is a good one



For reference would love to hear him talk about the new M340i
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      06-26-2019, 01:33 AM   #55
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I read a lot of posts here referring to a car or make/model's "DNA". I understand the general gist of what this means, but can anyone tell me, specifically, which parts or properties comprise a car's DNA? If not, I have to consider that this term really describes the mindset and expectations of the end consumer more than it defines some inherent, tangible properties of a certain make and model of car.

It's similar to when someone refers to the soul or character of a certain car. At the end of the day, a car is just a machine. Any character ascribed to it comes from our emotional reactions to the experience of driving it. This makes these terms purely subjective, as well as highly malleable.
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      06-26-2019, 06:48 AM   #56
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I read a lot of posts here referring to a car or make/model's "DNA". I understand the general gist of what this means, but can anyone tell me, specifically, which parts or properties comprise a car's DNA? If not, I have to consider that this term really describes the mindset and expectations of the end consumer more than it defines some inherent, tangible properties of a certain make and model of car.

It's similar to when someone refers to the soul or character of a certain car. At the end of the day, a car is just a machine. Any character ascribed to it comes from our emotional reactions to the experience of driving it. This makes these terms purely subjective, as well as highly malleable.
I think the big selling point for an M3 40 is always going to be it's a Four season car. And the newest one rivals the F 80 such that many people are willing to give up that rawness and that "it factor" to be able to drive the car year-round and places with lots of inclement weather. That's a hard argument to fight against. The F80 can be even more compelling if you live in a place without winter, or you have a second winter car/daily driver.

Even though I went with the M3 because it's something I've always wanted, I can see on paper why everybody's arguments are for the M340. Truth be told, I wonder if I made the wrong decision, given the amount of shitty weather we have, and the issues in the rain even. I'm going to drive one next week and I will report back. Ultimately I just need to update my daily driver from a Tiguan, to something nicer, then I won't care as much haah
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      06-26-2019, 07:59 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I read a lot of posts here referring to a car or make/model's "DNA". I understand the general gist of what this means, but can anyone tell me, specifically, which parts or properties comprise a car's DNA? If not, I have to consider that this term really describes the mindset and expectations of the end consumer more than it defines some inherent, tangible properties of a certain make and model of car.

It's similar to when someone refers to the soul or character of a certain car. At the end of the day, a car is just a machine. Any character ascribed to it comes from our emotional reactions to the experience of driving it. This makes these terms purely subjective, as well as highly malleable.
Fuller - you are right on . There is no magic., its just emotions.
After tracking M cars for 20 years - all the illusions melt away very quickly.
Parts are parts.
Oil cooler on M340 is the same as M3
Brakes are the same
Dif is the same.

So in this regard - they perform the same. there si no M magic sprinkled on there.

I think the discussion is interesting because of 2 points

- modern cars are so good that they outperform past years M cars and even super cars. Hey, Golf R can outrun e36 M3. And the new M340 definitely is a better performer than past years M cars. it will probably outrun 355 Ferrari

- second point is - the shift in Street/track balance of M cars. they were always dual purpose cars but lately shifted much more towards track thus diminishing everyday usability. Some are willing to live with that but most are not. I would even go as far as to say - M performance cars are better dual duty cars now vs full M. with 90% street ability and 10 % track.

- so, to me - if you are not seriously tracking the car - there is no reason to get an M. And even then - you have to be seriously tracking it in Begginer/intermediate group before you advance to a dedicated track car. So the window is pretty limited. and you have to be willing to live with inconveniences everyday in traffic.

Just reading the first page of M3 forum - one sees topics like
- Crashed my M3 in the rain
- Money shifted my manual M3 and BMW won't pay for it
- Scraping my front and sides on the driveway - cant get into garage
- rock punctured the oil radiator - engine is gone
- I won't let Valets or my wife drive the car

Up to you to decide if you are willing to live with it - your choice.
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      06-26-2019, 10:32 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilyam5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I read a lot of posts here referring to a car or make/model's "DNA". I understand the general gist of what this means, but can anyone tell me, specifically, which parts or properties comprise a car's DNA? If not, I have to consider that this term really describes the mindset and expectations of the end consumer more than it defines some inherent, tangible properties of a certain make and model of car.

It's similar to when someone refers to the soul or character of a certain car. At the end of the day, a car is just a machine. Any character ascribed to it comes from our emotional reactions to the experience of driving it. This makes these terms purely subjective, as well as highly malleable.
Fuller - you are right on . There is no magic., its just emotions.
After tracking M cars for 20 years - all the illusions melt away very quickly.
Parts are parts.
Oil cooler on M340 is the same as M3
Brakes are the same
Dif is the same.

So in this regard - they perform the same. there si no M magic sprinkled on there.

I think the discussion is interesting because of 2 points

- modern cars are so good that they outperform past years M cars and even super cars. Hey, Golf R can outrun e36 M3. And the new M340 definitely is a better performer than past years M cars. it will probably outrun 355 Ferrari

- second point is - the shift in Street/track balance of M cars. they were always dual purpose cars but lately shifted much more towards track thus diminishing everyday usability. Some are willing to live with that but most are not. I would even go as far as to say - M performance cars are better dual duty cars now vs full M. with 90% street ability and 10 % track.

- so, to me - if you are not seriously tracking the car - there is no reason to get an M. And even then - you have to be seriously tracking it in Begginer/intermediate group before you advance to a dedicated track car. So the window is pretty limited. and you have to be willing to live with inconveniences everyday in traffic.

Just reading the first page of M3 forum - one sees topics like
- Crashed my M3 in the rain
- Money shifted my manual M3 and BMW won't pay for it
- Scraping my front and sides on the driveway - cant get into garage
- rock punctured the oil radiator - engine is gone
- I won't let Valets or my wife drive the car

Up to you to decide if you are willing to live with it - your choice.
Couldn't have said it better!
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      06-26-2019, 10:44 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoshark View Post
I think the big selling point for an M3 40 is always going to be it's a Four season car. And the newest one rivals the F 80 such that many people are willing to give up that rawness and that "it factor" to be able to drive the car year-round and places with lots of inclement weather. That's a hard argument to fight against. The F80 can be even more compelling if you live in a place without winter, or you have a second winter car/daily driver.
I went through the F80 vs G20 debate internally for quite a while and this was my exact conclusion. Currently at a point where I want a single do-it-all car, and the M3 did not fit the bill. Once they add AWD, I am looking forward to driving an M3 year round
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      06-26-2019, 11:30 AM   #60
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I have no problem driving my RWD M4 year round including in the snow. In fact, I've had 3 RWD BMWs since 2010, all daily drivers year round seeing snow every winter.
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      06-26-2019, 02:47 PM   #61
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I have no problem driving my RWD M4 year round including in the snow. In fact, I've had 3 RWD BMWs since 2010, all daily drivers year round seeing snow every winter.
How do wash it in the winter? I'm worried about letting them put it the brushless wash that I used with my other cars. We can't turn the hose on here in the winter. I don't know if the pull in and spray yourself car washes are open during the winter
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      06-26-2019, 04:47 PM   #62
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How do wash it in the winter? I'm worried about letting them put it the brushless wash that I used with my other cars. We can't turn the hose on here in the winter. I don't know if the pull in and spray yourself car washes are open during the winter
same here in Boston. Wash it by hand in the indoor garage. Or go through touchless car wash. Drive to air dry and put it int he garage not to freeze.
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      06-26-2019, 07:23 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoshark View Post
How do wash it in the winter? I'm worried about letting them put it the brushless wash that I used with my other cars. We can't turn the hose on here in the winter. I don't know if the pull in and spray yourself car washes are open during the winter
same here in Boston. Wash it by hand in the indoor garage. Or go through touchless car wash. Drive to air dry and put it int he garage not to freeze.
Do you let them pull your car into the touchless wash?
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      06-26-2019, 07:35 PM   #64
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I have no problem driving my RWD M4 year round including in the snow. In fact, I've had 3 RWD BMWs since 2010, all daily drivers year round seeing snow every winter.
What sort of snow events do you commonly get though? "Driving in the snow" can mean different things to different people, depending on where you live.

In the northern states (U.S.) it's nice to have at least one awd vehicle to get around during the winter with less drama.
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      06-26-2019, 07:46 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
I have no problem driving my RWD M4 year round including in the snow. In fact, I've had 3 RWD BMWs since 2010, all daily drivers year round seeing snow every winter.
What sort of snow events do you commonly not see in the winter though? "Driving in the snow" can mean different things to different people, depending on where you live.

In the northern states (U.S.) it's nice to have at least one awd vehicle to get around during the winter with less drama.
I plan to drive my M3 in the winter however not in the snow.

I just got back from a beautiful 85 dry ride. And I one hundred percent made the right decision getting the M, for me. Tomorrow I'll drive my daily to work...

AWD plus DCT would be compelling, but we shall see what it means with a ZF in the G80. Probably will be great. But I wonder at that point, will there be that much reason to get the G80? We shall see
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      06-26-2019, 10:08 PM   #66
Ilyam5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoshark View Post
Do you let them pull your car into the touchless wash?
No, touchless washes here are much better now. You drive in yourself and it is wide enough that you do not worry about wheel scrapes. Nozzlels just move around you
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