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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions US G2x models are getting engine updates in 2024

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      03-14-2023, 06:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLJ View Post
Isn't this the new B58 variant they announced for the 5 and 7 series to replace the current B58 variant of those models?
I believe so based on this: https://g60.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=901686
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      03-14-2023, 06:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by g21 View Post
The 11hp mild hybrid gives 195lb ft of torque?
There are different HP ratings (up to 18 hp) for different models with the 48 V motor integral with the transmission. I'm seeing 200 Nm (147.5 lb ft) as the nominal figure for torque on different setups, like the X5 and 7-series.
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      03-14-2023, 06:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
There are different HP ratings (up to 18 hp) for different models with the 48 V motor integral with the transmission. I'm seeing 200 Nm (147.5 lb ft) as the nominal figure for torque on different setups, like the X5 and 7-series.
I don't think there are official torque numbers for the mild hybrid. I've looked. But it is between 10-11hp.
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      03-14-2023, 08:24 PM   #26
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If this is updating to TU2 for 6 cylinder then yes it is still 48v but no longer has a starter motor generator on the belt drive. It has a 48v trans that can allow for better starting and smoother operation of MSA. Almost always starts from trans and not starter whereas the previous 48v cars would primarily start cold with starter and then once warm through the 48V SGR
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      03-14-2023, 08:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshxdough View Post
If this is updating to TU2 for 6 cylinder then yes it is still 48v but no longer has a starter motor generator on the belt drive. It has a 48v trans that can allow for better starting and smoother operation of MSA. Almost always starts from trans and not starter whereas the previous 48v cars would primarily start cold with starter and then once warm through the 48V SGR
Good to know. Thanks for the information. I assumed the 23í MY was still on the belt drive mounted MH setup ďGen 1Ē. The TU2 is necessary for the transmission mounted MH setup ďGen 2Ē. It appears like as you stated the benefits of the transmission mounted setup are startup via the battery even on cold startup. Gen 1 does it, but the system only engages after warmup for stop start, not from the beginning. It also appears like it is able to add more torque fill across the power range compared to the belt mounted.

According to what Iíve found, the HP remains roughly the same between Gen 1 and Gen 2 (low to mid 10s depending on the vehicle). Torque numbers were never given for Gen 1, likely because it was limited torque added across the range due to where it was mounted. Having Gen 2 be trans mounted means the ability to access more torque when needed is possible.

That said, others have stated the torque fill is fairly limited. A good post Iíve found from xlover : https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...14&postcount=7
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      03-14-2023, 09:57 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by bimmerbenz65 View Post
From the first post - B58B30M2
I didnít even notice that! I couldnít figure out how an ///M2 came into the conversation.
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      03-14-2023, 10:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD View Post
Good to know. Thanks for the information. I assumed the 23’ MY was still on the belt drive mounted MH setup “Gen 1”. The TU2 is necessary for the transmission mounted MH setup “Gen 2”. It appears like as you stated the benefits of the transmission mounted setup are startup via the battery even on cold startup. Gen 1 does it, but the system only engages after warmup for stop start, not from the beginning. It also appears like it is able to add more torque fill across the power range compared to the belt mounted.

According to what I’ve found, the HP remains roughly the same between Gen 1 and Gen 2 (low to mid 10s depending on the vehicle). Torque numbers were never given for Gen 1, likely because it was limited torque added across the range due to where it was mounted. Having Gen 2 be trans mounted means the ability to access more torque when needed is possible.

That said, others have stated the torque fill is fairly limited. A good post I’ve found from xlover : https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...14&postcount=7
could be correct

the formula is HP = Torque X RPM plus some constant (1/5252 for ICE, no idea what it is for the mild hybrid motor)

so if decent torque at low rpm then low hp but ... yeah ... who knows ... it sounds like it needs to be at very very low RPM. which does make sense, if it's for getting the car moving from standstill.

Last edited by g21; 03-15-2023 at 12:38 AM..
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      03-15-2023, 04:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD View Post
According to what Iíve found, the HP remains roughly the same between Gen 1 and Gen 2 (low to mid 10s depending on the vehicle). Torque numbers were never given for Gen 1, likely because it was limited torque added across the range due to where it was mounted. Having Gen 2 be trans mounted means the ability to access more torque when needed is possible.
BMW specification data lists up to 18 hp for integrated 48 V motor generator, (according to vehicle model), with 200 Nm of torque.

Typical belt drive motor generators are limited in torque, even with designs up to 12 kW. Figures in the 50 - 60 Nm range are used in association with recuperation torque. I sense the belt performance limits the torque, both as motor and generator.
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      03-15-2023, 07:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g21 View Post
The 11hp mild hybrid gives 195lb ft of torque?
yeahhhhh
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      03-15-2023, 10:07 AM   #32
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FYI this also means it will be using 0w12 oil just like the 7 and x7 vehicles 🥴🥴🥴
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      03-15-2023, 11:51 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
BMW specification data lists up to 18 hp for integrated 48 V motor generator, (according to vehicle model), with 200 Nm of torque.

Typical belt drive motor generators are limited in torque, even with designs up to 12 kW. Figures in the 50 - 60 Nm range are used in association with recuperation torque. I sense the belt performance limits the torque, both as motor and generator.
Gen 2 sounds like a great improvement by eliminating the starter motor and the belt system, which appears to be weak links(according to posts from other forum members).

I do wonder if Gen 2 requires bigger MH battery than Gen 1, and if there is extra wear and tear on that battery.
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      03-15-2023, 12:03 PM   #34
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B58 upgrade adds port fuel injection (PFI and DI) to improve emissions. PFI and DI offers greater flexibility to meet emissions requirements across load/speed range.
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      03-15-2023, 12:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by drexplode View Post
B58 upgrade adds port fuel injection (PFI and DI) to improve emissions. PFI and DI offers greater flexibility to meet emissions requirements across load/speed range.
Not to mention that port injection also helps with carbon valve fouling commonly found in direct injection turbo engines. Big win.
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      03-15-2023, 12:16 PM   #36
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Is the official announcement of the LCI 4 series with TU2 engine supposed to be this month? From OP it says March? Hopefully we'll learn for certain very soon what specific changes have been made to power and torque (aside from emissions improvements)
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      03-15-2023, 12:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momo3605 View Post
Is the official announcement of the LCI 4 series with TU2 engine supposed to be this month? From OP it says March? Hopefully we'll learn for certain very soon what specific changes have been made to power and torque (aside from emissions improvements)
2024 as in calendar year 2024, so MY2025. Still a year away. Don’t think 4 series LCI will start with this engine. I think that is the point being made.
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      03-15-2023, 12:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLJ View Post
I don't think there are official torque numbers for the mild hybrid. I've looked. But it is between 10-11hp.
Latest generation MT with electric motor integrated into the transmission, do have figures from BMW.

As an example, data is for the 740d.
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      03-15-2023, 01:48 PM   #39
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Maybe I’m crazy or uninformed, but this “belt” talk about the M340i mild hybrid is the first time in four years I’ve heard anything like that. From the very first introduction of the mild hybrid into the 2021 M340i what I read and what my understanding was is the traditional starter was replaced from the very beginning and the mild hybrid motor/generator was integrated into the transmission from the very beginning. That was the thing that was talked about that made the ASS engagement so smooth in the new car. This has been my understanding right from the start. This is what I was reading. I’m pretty sure I didn’t dream that, since I knew nothing about the system until I read about it.

This interview from January 2019 seems to indicate “Generation 2” was what was about to be introduced.

“The engineering chief at BMW says that the company built some first-generation 48V applications just to learn the systems, but the focus is really on the second-generation.

“Generation 2 means that I double the electric power. I’m going to 20kW and instead of going to the belt motor alternator, I will go into the transmission. So we are partnering with ZF and at the beginning of the next decade, we will have the latest generation transmissions. We will not only have double the power, but also an integrated 48-volt system and because it’s behind the engine, we can do some crawling and some other things without using the engine. And the other thing is, that it has boost!””

Again, this interview was in January 2019.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/01/30/b...e-48v-systems/
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      03-15-2023, 02:01 PM   #40
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2020 BMW M340xi  [0.00]
Feeling pretty pleased with my 2020 non -MH motor and stage 2 tune. Donít want the headaches and complexity of the hybrid motor. Is this the last great true ICE motor BMW builds?
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      03-15-2023, 02:34 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by upstate650 View Post
Feeling pretty pleased with my 2020 non -MH motor and stage 2 tune. Don’t want the headaches and complexity of the hybrid motor. Is this the last great true ICE motor BMW builds?
Yes, most likely it is. Which is exactly why I just bought a 2020. I did the same type of thing in 2009 when I chose a 2006 E90 330i, because I wanted the last of the naturally aspirated inline six motors. If the B58 and the ZF8 hadn’t turned out to be so great I’d still have that 330i.
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      03-15-2023, 02:42 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Maybe Iím crazy or uninformed, but this ďbeltĒ talk about the M340i mild hybrid is the first time in four years Iíve heard anything like that. From the very first introduction of the mild hybrid into the 2021 M340i what I read and what my understanding was is the traditional starter was replaced from the very beginning and the mild hybrid motor/generator was integrated into the transmission from the very beginning. That was the thing that was talked about that made the ASS engagement so smooth in the new car. This has been my understanding right from the start. This is what I was reading. Iím pretty sure I didnít dream that, since I knew nothing about the system until I read about it.
1st generation MH is the belt drive motor generator system.

Only recently have BMW introduced the 2nd generation integrated MH system as in the latest 7-series. I remember press releases last autumn time for the integrated systems starting to be fitted to top end models.

All the technical details of the belt drive system and repair procedures are documented for cars like the G20 M340i.
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      03-15-2023, 03:19 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
1st generation MH is the belt drive motor generator system.

Only recently have BMW introduced the 2nd generation integrated MH system as in the latest 7-series. I remember press releases last autumn time for the integrated systems starting to be fitted to top end models.

All the technical details of the belt drive system and repair procedures are documented for cars like the G20 M340i.
Would you please post some links? Because I Googled everything I could think of and I couldn’t find anything. I can’t figure out where I got the notion it was part of the transmission I’ve had from the very first introduction of the 2021 mild hybrid M340i.
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      03-15-2023, 05:03 PM   #44
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Would you please post some links? Because I Googled everything I could think of and I couldn’t find anything. I can’t figure out where I got the notion it was part of the transmission I’ve had from the very first introduction of the 2021 mild hybrid M340i.
Interesting that BMWBlog in August 22 was still featuring BMW's belt drive 48V system, with the BMW image used in technical descriptions.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2022/08/23/b...-mild-hybrids/

It is difficult to remember all the press releases, but the one that does 'debut' (according to BMW) the 2nd generation system, was in the 2-series Active Tourer press release, in February 22. Integrated with 19 hp and 55 Nm of torque. Same setup followed into the X1.

Keeping up with how BMW is implementing the different systems on the different platforms, is a bit of a challenge. Good to now see the integrated system being rolled out with the ZF 8-speed drivetrains.

Last edited by HighlandPete; 03-15-2023 at 05:16 PM..
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