[fridex]

i'm so happy with my M2C that i wan't interested in another car until i saw this post.
this is the next one!

[FinalRenegade]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I still want an M4 Gran Coupe

I would hop on that ASAP tbh, M4 Gran Coupe would be simply amazing

For those that say M3 is enough as the four door, I just find Gran Coupes sexier than the typical sedan formula

[adc]

Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80

It's a huge car, what i find really funny is America w the ultra low speed limits and 200 mph cars. LOL... Is there actually a way for you guys to drive them this fast without a full helicopter chase?

Actually yes. Just yesterday I was hitting 155mph multiple times per session at Virginia International Raceway. I'm saying 155 because it was more like 158 indicated, but allowing for an optimistic speedo.

[GERMAN M3]

Originally Posted by Thedriver85

Considering how the CTS V manual wagon has essentially NOT depreciated, and how the X3M is AWD Automatic only, I would do the M3 wagon as Manual RWD, and create the next cult car. Personally, if this happens, I will mortgage my house, and sell two of my cars for this amazing machine.

You forgot the kids!!

[Joraq]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Convince everyone to go buy a wagon. Speak with your wallet. Go buy an RS6 Avant or E63 Estate, and get as many others here as you can to do the same. Money talks.

Also, do some roleplaying. Imagine you have a business with a catalog of products to sell for which there is an obvious market, and another catalog of products to sell for which the case is less clear. Imagine that millions of dollars are involved. What would it take to convince you to put your money into products in the latter category? Maybe you will gain insight that can help you in your quest.

I'm not being glib, by the way. What you are suggesting isn't entirely impossible, and I think you should go through the exercise of pursuing it if it is your dream. I wish you luck.

I too am serious. I am not willing to buy another car that I don't want (RS6, AMG, etc.). Instead, I agree that we need to present a case. Simply ask BMW what they want. A list of names with willing deposits? The interest the car has garnered speaks for itself. There is a faction of enthusiasts here in NA that want this. How many, I guess we will see. Feel free to DM me about making this happen. I am interested to see/hear how many of these would have to be sold to make a strong business case. I don't see this as being the highest selling M car as most M car enthusiasts seem to be focused on image nowadays. What I do see this car doing is shifting the focus away from the "controversial" face and connection back to what BMW legends were conceived. The surprise effect can do wonders. Anyway, I'll put my money where my mouth is and potentially hold off on a M2CS for this. Bimmerpost, create a front page or Poll for serious NA potential buyers. Lets roll the dice.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by avantegardestyle

what's the fascination with wagons?

They haul everything, including ass.

[darkbro66]

I can forgive the front end for this. Bravo BMW, I'll put my money where my mouth is if this comes to the US

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by Thedriver85

Considering how the CTS V manual wagon has essentially NOT depreciated, and how the X3M is AWD Automatic only, I would do the M3 wagon as Manual RWD, and create the next cult car. Personally, if this happens, I will mortgage my house, and sell two of my cars for this amazing machine.

Rumor is Cadillac is bringing a CT5v Blackwing Wagon to market. Along with a V8 sedan. Both with a manual transmission. Nothing confirmed beyond the sedan at this point, but manufacturers are obviously seeing market research that is leading them to consider wagons in the US.

Some of the market research on wagons is staggering, they bring in enthusiasts to a brand and obviously manufacturers are looking at ways to bring these types of cars to market. They also attract a certain buyer that owns multiple other cars. There are a lot of articles about this, but here is one from Bloomberg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...7V1gsJafkMM0Ts

Another thing that market research has proven recently is enthusiasts want something different, a Porsche study showed that enthusiast will shop a Porsche Sports Car vs a Jeep Wrangler. It makes no sense to marketing departments, but it does to me. Enthusiasts do not want a boring commuter vehicle, they are looking for an experience.

BMW would be foolish to say that it is coming right now with the G80 set to launch soon. (I am buying a G80 at this point with manual transmission and a cargo box on top) making it a pseudo wagon. it probably is not planned at this point, but if wagons continue to make a comeback, no way BMW sits on the sidelines letting other brands capture that market.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Joraq

I too am serious. I am not willing to buy another car that I don't want (RS6, AMG, etc.).

Unless you speak with your wallet, you are wasting your time trying to force change.

You must, at the very least, refuse to buy another BMW until they produce and sell the vehicle you want. Otherwise, you are undermining your own cause. As long as they know that you will buy another of their products in the absence of the one you claim to want them to produce, you have completely disincentivized them to make any changes.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Joraq

I too am serious. I am not willing to buy another car that I don't want (RS6, AMG, etc.). Instead, I agree that we need to present a case. Simply ask BMW what they want. A list of names with willing deposits? The interest the car has garnered speaks for itself. There is a faction of enthusiasts here in NA that want this. How many, I guess we will see. Feel free to DM me about making this happen. I am interested to see/hear how many of these would have to be sold to make a strong business case. I don't see this as being the highest selling M car as most M car enthusiasts seem to be focused on image nowadays. What I do see this car doing is shifting the focus away from the "controversial" face and connection back to what BMW legends were conceived. The surprise effect can do wonders. Anyway, I'll put my money where my mouth is and potentially hold off on a M2CS for this. Bimmerpost, create a front page or Poll for serious NA potential buyers. Lets roll the dice.

If indeed it costs BMW around $30M to certify the G81 in the US, and given they will have at most 3 model years to sell, the math is not very complicated.

If they were to sell 2,000 M3 wagons per year (a very optimistic number IMO), 6,000 total, that means the certification amortization cost per car is around $5,000. The typical BMW wagon costs an extra $2,500 or so over the corresponding sedan, so you are looking at $7,000-8,000 more for an M3 wagon compared to the sedan. People may think it's cool to drive around in an M3 wagon, but how many would pay an extra $8k for the privilege?

I think BMW would really struggle to sell these cars at these prices, considering the X3M Comp would be significantly cheaper.

But I'm wondering what you need the car for anyway. If you are considering an M2CS, you want a lighter more focused performance car. A 3,900lbs AWD automatic M3 wagon would certainly not be that. What gives? (I'm curious).

[Wills2]

At last they actually do it, it'll be very interesting to see how many they sell in the UK and EU which I guess will be their main market if it doesn't go to the US.

I wonder what it will weigh as the M340i xdrive touring is 1820kg given that full M cars are generally heavier perhaps closer to 1900kg the Alpina B3 with the S58 is 1940kg as a reference.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

Rumor is Cadillac is bringing a CT5v Blackwing Wagon to market.

Unless there is a standard CT5 wagon also coming to market, this rumor can be considered complete fiction.

And I strongly doubt a CT5 wagon is in the works. A more likely scenario is that the CT4 and CT5 will be gone completely from the US after this generation, and Cadillac, like Buick as of MY2021, and like Chevrolet within the next couple years (as soon as the Spark and Malibu finish out) will be completely four and five door passenger car free.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Joraq

I don't see this as being the highest selling M car as most M car enthusiasts seem to be focused on image nowadays.

If this is true the wagon should be the highest selling M car because let’s face it, if you need to haul big stuff there are better choices. As an SUV replacement? After you added your Yeti you got no space left for gear I think the G81 has less cargo volume than the F90.

The wagon is the ultimate image car, the hipster dream mobile. Does it appeal to long term enthusiasts like myself? Yes I’d love to see it around since it’s ultra cool but that’s it’s main feature IMO.

But as fast as it will be it will have inherit disadvantages in terms of center of gravity and weight from glass etc. so it’s a compromise I prefer not to have on an M3. An M5? yes I’d prefer a wagon.

[Law]

Originally Posted by solstice

But as fast as it will be it will have inherit disadvantages in terms of center of gravity and weight from glass etc. so it’s a compromise I prefer not to have on an M3. An M5? yes I’d prefer a wagon.

This is an interesting point which now brings up the question of whether or not a carbon fiber roof might be installed for the first time on a Touring model since this is the first 'real' attempt at a production M3 Touring now that development has been given the green light.

As a compromise, they could offer a steel roof/slicktop option if development/manufacturing costs are a concern for the niche Touring much like what they did with the E90 M3 when the 4-door M3 was still a very niche segment for BMW M.

It's entirely possible that in the two years BMW M is taking for the testing & development of the G81 that these options (and the cost-benefit ratio of them) will be explored.

That would certainly spice things up a bit.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Unless there is a standard CT5 wagon also coming to market, this rumor can be considered complete fiction.

And I strongly doubt a CT5 wagon is in the works. A more likely scenario is that the CT4 and CT5 will be gone completely from the US after this generation, and Cadillac, like Buick as of MY2021, and like Chevrolet within the next couple years (as soon as the Spark and Malibu finish out) will be completely four and five door passenger car free.

I watched an Autoline Podcast on YouTube with the lead engineer of the upcoming Blackwing series; he said it (wagon) was under strong consideration and they are analyzing the possibilities. Nothing concrete, and that is a paraphrase, but it seemed like it was possible.

G80 with 4 doors / 6MT and hopefully roof-rack inserts will be a great family car, so I am happy either way, but any manual sedan or wagon coming to market makes me happy.

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by otay

BMW is making a shit-ton of money on SUVs. Why can't this subsidize wagons here in the US? Isn't that how MB and Audi do it?
If so, I'd be driving this...
we have dogs and the step up into the tail of SUVs is too high.

Even worse for a dog is the jump down from an SUV. It's far too high!

[mmic77]

Originally Posted by GERMAN M3

Great for you guys back home in Europe mmic, unfortunately it won’t be making it stateside.
By the way.....how are things going with the RS6?

Well BMW thinks in the USA it´s all about SUVs .

Problems with my RS aren´t sorted out. My dealer is waiting for the correct part to replace half of the steering column. The issue isn´t a safety concern but it sucks.

Meanwhile I´m waiting for my GT4 . Another way to solve the problem .

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

I'm not certain that X3M is doing so well in the states, as the recent lease incentives have been very strong compared to the X5M/X6M— but the X5M/X6M just started production earlier this year.

Seems like Bimmerpost members have been getting really strong leases on X3Ms, comparable to or even less than loaded X5 40i boats.

[Arcades]

I can almost guarantee we will not get the Wagon in the States.

Considering how adverse to wagons US ppl are, I just very doubt it. SUVs are too popular here.

[Joraq]

Originally Posted by adc

If indeed it costs BMW around $30M to certify the G81 in the US, and given they will have at most 3 model years to sell, the math is not very complicated.

If they were to sell 2,000 M3 wagons per year (a very optimistic number IMO), 6,000 total, that means the certification amortization cost per car is around $5,000. The typical BMW wagon costs an extra $2,500 or so over the corresponding sedan, so you are looking at $7,000-8,000 more for an M3 wagon compared to the sedan. People may think it's cool to drive around in an M3 wagon, but how many would pay an extra $8k for the privilege?

I think BMW would really struggle to sell these cars at these prices, considering the X3M Comp would be significantly cheaper.

But I'm wondering what you need the car for anyway. If you are considering an M2CS, you want a lighter more focused performance car. A 3,900lbs AWD automatic M3 wagon would certainly not be that. What gives? (I'm curious).

Adc,


The M2CS and the M3T are apples an oranges. I, like most people, like what I like. Personally, I have a thing for wagons, and I've long wanted a car that can do it all and not have to be an SUV. Currently, I've owned a couple BMW tourings and loved them. I still have one. I love/loved the 1M but also have a family now. Fine for me and the wife, but not as much fun for car-seated kids.The additonal utility of the wagon feels right and I still enjoy driving and rowing my own gears. I feel this car could cover more bases and still be fun. If my garage space and bank account was infinite I'd have them all. For now, these are the only two BMW's that excite me. I loved seeing the 1M come to fruition and was happy to be a part of the 135i owners that were surveyed about an M model. I know these things can happen, there simply has to be a case.



J.

[TTBimmer]

Super excited for this. Wagons are the best. I leased two F31's in a row. I would have leased a G21 if it were available in the US. I recently leased an F97 X3MC as my "compromise" for fun to drive and utility. This M3 wagon would be my choice to replace to F97 when it comes off lease if BMW is smart enough to bring this to the States.

[remmib]

Originally Posted by mbanck

Somebody on a german forum claims it'll be limited to 1000 units: https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/m3-t...l#post59756212

Well, the last M wagon, the e61 M5, was only build in 1025 units. I don't think it was a limited production, just the number that was here in Europe.