[CSBM5]

It could also be that the F90 I drove was nearing the 3 hour point of being hot lapped relentlessly...no clue if it was taking protective measures to keep temps in check, etc.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

It could also be that the F90 I drove was nearing the 3 hour point of being hot lapped relentlessly...no clue if it was taking protective measures to keep temps in check, etc.

Haha holy smokes... Brakes were holding up huh?? Big girl was showing some serious fade when I was lapping.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Haha holy smokes... Brakes were holding up huh?? Big girl was showing some serious fade when I was lapping.

Carbon-ceramics, and they were hanging in there.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

While their attitudes may be somewhat misguided and unrealistic at least they are passionate about their cars and about driving which is not a bad thing.

I agree but when they say that when they are trying to shit on me for having a DCT it's annoying.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Before you take offence take into account the credibility of the source.

That's what I'm doing when I respond....? What's the point of this back and forth? All I'm saying is that there are tons of manual only people who don't realize that actual race car drivers prefer whatever is faster, which are autos.... and when I tell them that they are shocked at its validity.... I'm kind of lost on your point in your initial response and now in this one.... I never said they weren't passionate about cars or that I wasn't checking on their credibility.... and I wasn't taking "offence" to anything...

[Powerslide]

This is the exact same point I was making in post #194 above. I also don't have any problem with those who prefer (or even insist upon) manuals - and again - I think choice is great. I don't $hit on them for preferring manuals - so it would be nice if the zealous self-proclaimed "purists" would extend the same courtesy back to those who prefer DCT.

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Could just select 2wd I suppose, but my sense and speculation is that M has deprioritized traction at the rear as compared to when it was the only drive option. The cars are engineered to go fast in AWD mode. 2wd has become hoon mode.

Agreed here. The difference in sway bar size and spring rates front and rear can't be optimal for both RWD and AWD. If you make it optimal for AWD then when you're in RWD the rear suspension will be too stiff and it will promote oversteer.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

OK let me make this whole thing a bit more precise.

Three M3 models:
- entry level M3 is targeting 450PS (444hp, not 454)
- "standard" M3 is 475hp (not PS - can we just all go to metric now please?)
- we won't need to wait for Competition in M4 - there will be M3 Competition too, with 500hp.

The suggestion that S58 will use water injection... Let's just pretend they never said that, OK?

One important bit about motors: the engine in the entry model is not just a different tune, it's a different engine level (think about the difference between 320i and 330i: same foundation, but plenty of different parts that make it impossible to turn 20i into 30i with just a chip).

This sounds like the entry model will have a high output B58 instead of S58?

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by mikeahso

The car a lot of guys want this new M3 to be, already exists.

It's the F10 M5 6MT.

A glorious sound, with torque, RWD, and a stick.

Newer isn't always better.

Except its carrying around an extra 1,000 pounds and drives like a minibus....oh and its ugly.

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

This sounds like the entry model will have a high output B58 instead of S58?

Ughhhh I hadn't considered that. If they do that plenty of people will be very upset!

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

This sounds like the entry model will have a high output B58 instead of S58?

No.

320i: B48M
330i: B48O

Same deal with G80.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by LMBe82

I want a back to basics M3. The Pure version sounds promising but I really want nothing but performance. NO nav, heated seats, back up cameras, active suspension, electronic rear diff, hill assist, crash detection, blind spot monitoring, etc. Seriously none of it. I am entertained by driving my fun car and listening to the radio (stock is okay with me). Cars have become so bloated with all this tech and I hate it. If this Pure is really a stripper only thing I ask for is power windows and mirrors haha. If BMW can pull this off I will sell my Z4 M Coupe. Anyone else interested in a true M3?

Concerning backup cameras, manufacturers do not have a choice. Backup cameras became mandatory on all new vehicles sold in the US beginning in 2018.

[hwelvaar]

Originally Posted by LMBe82

I want a back to basics M3. The Pure version sounds promising but I really want nothing but performance. NO nav, heated seats, back up cameras, active suspension, electronic rear diff, hill assist, crash detection, blind spot monitoring, etc. Seriously none of it. I am entertained by driving my fun car and listening to the radio (stock is okay with me). Cars have become so bloated with all this tech and I hate it. If this Pure is really a stripper only thing I ask for is power windows and mirrors haha. If BMW can pull this off I will sell my Z4 M Coupe. Anyone else interested in a true M3?

BMW sells those. They're just named differently: M2

[hwelvaar]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

9,000 rpm rated 6MT and DCT are all we ever wanted. Bogging down at early 7000 rpm, ZFat has no place in the M.

It's not DCT vs ZF that limits RPM, but turbos.

[MT4life]

subscribed, may be my next car being that it's going to be the last decent sport sedan in a few years with MT

[xlover]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

OK let me make this whole thing a bit more precise.

Three M3 models:
- entry level M3 is targeting 450PS (444hp, not 454)
- "standard" M3 is 475hp (not PS - can we just all go to metric now please?)
- we won't need to wait for Competition in M4 - there will be M3 Competition too, with 500hp.

Which version is going into the MX3/MX4? 444 or 475? (or 500 for comp)

[RowanBuds]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

Basically this is going to be an AWD e60 M5. The F30 already was as wide and a few inches shorter.

Oh my lord. Please BMW give me that 10 pot screamer with high single digit mpg and a manual box and a factory warranty; my checkbook would part like the red sea.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by xlover

Which version is going into the MX3/MX4? 444 or 475? (or 500 for comp)

Right now the detuned version shows up only in the base M3.

[Pic18]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I spent time in an F90 M5 on Friday all on the track. I was surprised also about the shifting speed/quality as I expected it to be superb given all the praise the 8AT has been given. In a couple of sections if was just too slow to respond to my paddle request to downshift (request made when it could easily complete the 3-2 downshift without revs being too high)...perhaps it was due to intense braking in progress about to lead into heavy trailbraking, and the "system" wasn't going to allow a downshift. Anyway, overall, it felt nothing like a DCT to me. I suppose I would just say it's pretty good for an AT.

The F90 is brutally fast...no doubt. It's amazing on track how quickly you adapt to its acceleration. The AWD system worked incredibly well putting down the power, especially the part about it not feeling like a ponderous/understeering Audi. It felt light on its feet to an extent somehow even given the mass it's carrying.

It is funny that the arguments back and forth are mostly about manual vs auto, but I think one of my biggest concerns about the G80 is the switch from DCT to auto. As someone who has driven the current DCT's (although I own a 6MT) and the F90 with the auto, I was pretty disappointed in both the manual shifting in the 8AT and automatic algorithm for shifting. Maybe it was because it was a new car, and I didn't play with all the modes that much, but I definitely prefer the DCT's I have driven as far as feel and control over the ZF 8AT.

[2011zx10R]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

This is the exact same point I was making in post #194 above. I also don't have any problem with those who prefer (or even insist upon) manuals - and again - I think choice is great. I don't $hit on them for preferring manuals - so it would be nice if the zealous self-proclaimed "purists" would extend the same courtesy back to those who prefer DCT.

Totally agree!

It's all about what you like.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

For those of you who swear by manuals - enjoy! But also add me to the list of those who are sick of the holier-than-thou types who think you have to have a manual to be in love with driving your car...

Driving a manual is a giant pain in the ass. We work 3x harder per mile (and we know it) and when people's faces light up with glee when we respond in the affirmative to the question "is it stick?" it reinforces our already misguided grandiosity.

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

It's not DCT vs ZF that limits RPM, but turbos.

That's not true. All torque converter autos can't go much above 7000rpm.

Plenty of turbo cars rev to 8000 + such as the McLaren V8, heck even the EB110 did.